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Post by Arxileas on Mar 12, 2008 23:37:30 GMT -5
Historians... What historians are you talking about?? You've answered your own question, I believe. [/size][/quote] Well I geuss is based on what facts I have read, had some quotes from famous historians just need to find them again. Then again one could look at the 1878 League of Prizren I geuss there is a lot of usful info there. Thanks for the compliments .
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 12, 2008 23:51:13 GMT -5
Wilkes provides a lot of insight into Albanians, may have some copy of his works soon ! as screen shots.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 12, 2008 23:53:38 GMT -5
You know one can truly enrich ones culture and history if they recognised the contributions of the Hellenic history with theirs as it should be.
Don’t forget us, remember what King Leonidas said “Remember us”
Got to go have a nice day.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 13, 2008 0:03:45 GMT -5
You're welcome.
Here is the League of Prizren. Simple source -Wikiopedia-(more or less the same thing is written in all history books)
I'll be open to your comments and/or criticism points of view.
The League of Prizren (Albanian: Lidhja e Prizrenit) was an Albanian political organization founded on June 10, 1878 in Prizren, Vilayet of Kosovo, Ottoman Empire. It aimed at defending the Albanian-inhabited lands from being annexed by Slavic countries in the Balkans and sought autonomy for Albania under the Ottoman Empire.
The history of the League of Prizren begins with the 19th century Treaty of San Stefano when Sultan Abdul Hamid pushed the Albanian and Bosnian Muslims to defend their borders from the possible Slavic invasion. It was originally Albanian organization, but was later turned into a pan-Albanian league by Albanian nationalists and supported the rights of the Albanians disregarding religious affiliation.
The rise of the League
The 1877-1878 Russo-Turkish War dealt a decisive blow to Ottoman power in the Balkan Peninsula, leaving the empire with only a precarious hold on Macedonia and the Albanian-populated lands. The Albanians' fear that the lands they inhabited would be partitioned among Montenegro, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Greece fueled the rise of Muslim resistance. The first postwar treaty, the abortive Treaty of San Stefano signed on March 3, 1878, assigned Albanian-populated lands to Serbia, Montenegro, and Bulgaria. Austria-Hungary and the United Kingdom blocked the arrangement because it awarded Russia a predominant position in the Balkans and thereby upset the European balance of power. A peace conference to settle the dispute was held later in the year in Berlin.
The Treaty of San Stefano triggered profound anxiety among the Albanians and Bosnians meanwhile, and it spurred their leaders to organize a defense of the lands they inhabited. In the spring of 1878, influential Albanians in Constantinople--including Abdyl Frashëri, the Albanian national movement's leading figure during its early years--organized a committee to direct the Albanians' resistance. With the backing of the sultan, in May the group called for a general meeting of representatives from all the Albanian and Bosnian-populated lands. On June 10, 1878, about eighty delegates, mostly Muslim religious leaders, clan chiefs, and other influential people from the four Ottoman vilayets, met in the Kosovo city of Prizren. The delegates set up a standing organization, the League of Prizren, under the direction of a central committee that had the power to impose taxes and raise an army.
At first the Ottoman authorities supported the League of Prizren, but the Sublime Porte pressed the delegates to declare themselves to be first and foremost Ottomans rather than Albanians. Some delegates supported this position and advocated emphasizing Muslim solidarity and the defense of Muslim lands, including present-day Bosnia and Herzegovina. Other representatives, under Frasheri's leadership, focused on working toward Albanian autonomy and creating a sense of Albanian identity that would cut across religious and tribal lines. Because conservative Muslims constituted a majority of the representatives, the League of Prizren supported maintenance of Ottoman suzerainty.
In July 1878, the league sent a memorandum to the Great Powers at the Congress of Berlin, which was called to settle the unresolved problems of Turkish War, demanding that all Albanians be united in a single Ottoman province that would be governed from Bitola by a Turkish governor who would be advised by an Albanian committee elected by universal suffrage.
The Congress of Berlin ignored the league's memorandum, and Germany's Otto von Bismarck even proclaimed that an Albanian nation did not exist. The congress ceded to Montenegro the cities of Bar and Podgorica and areas around the mountain villages of Gusinje and Plav, which Albanian leaders considered Albanian territory. Serbia also won Albanian-inhabited lands. The Albanians, the vast majority loyal to the empire, vehemently opposed the territorial losses. Albanians also feared the possible loss of Epirus to Greece. The League of Prizren organized armed resistance efforts in Gusinje, Plav, Shkodër, Prizren, Prevesa, and Janina. A border tribesman at the time described the frontier as "floating on blood".
In August 1878, the Congress of Berlin ordered a commission to trace a border between the Ottoman Empire and Montenegro. The congress also directed Greece and the Ottoman Empire to negotiate a solution to their border dispute. The Great Powers expected the Ottomans to ensure that the Albanians would respect the new borders, ignoring that the sultan's military forces were too weak to enforce any settlement and that the Ottomans could only benefit by the Albanians' resistance. The Sublime Porte, in fact, armed the Albanians and allowed them to levy taxes, and when the Ottoman army withdrew from areas awarded to Montenegro under the Treaty of Berlin, Roman Catholic Albanian tribesmen simply took control. The Albanians' successful resistance to the treaty forced the Great Powers to alter the border, returning Gusinje and Plav to the Ottoman Empire and granting Montenegro the mostly Muslim Albanian-populated coastal town of Ulcinj. But the Albanians there refused to surrender as well. Finally, the Great Powers blockaded Ulcinj by sea and pressured the Ottoman authorities to bring the Albanians under control. The Great Powers decided in 1881 to cede Greece only Thessaly and the district of Arta.
Faced with growing international pressure "to pacify" the refractory Albanians, the sultan dispatched a large army under Dervish Turgut Pasha to suppress the League of Prizren and deliver Ulcinj to Montenegro. Albanians loyal to the empire supported the Sublime Porte's military intervention. In April 1881, Dervish Pasha's 10,000 men captured Prizren and later crushed the resistance at Ulcinj. The League of Prizren's leaders and their families were arrested and deported. Frasheri, who originally received a death sentence, was imprisoned until 1885 and exiled until his death seven years later. In the three years it survived, the League of Prizren effectively made the Great Powers aware of the Albanian people and their national interests. Montenegro and Greece received much less Albanian-populated territory than they would have won without the league's resistance.
Formidable barriers frustrated Albanian leaders' efforts to instill in their people an Albanian rather than an Ottoman identity. Divided into four vilayets, Albanians had no common geographical or political nerve center. The Albanians' religious differences forced nationalist leaders to give the national movement a purely secular character that alienated religious leaders. The most significant factor uniting the Albanians, their spoken language, lacked a standard literary form and even a standard alphabet. Each of the three available choices, the Latin, Cyrillic, and Arabic scripts, implied different political and religious orientations opposed by one or another element of the population. In 1878 there were no Albanian-language schools in the most developed of the Albanian-inhabited areas-- Gjirokastër, Berat, and Vlorë--where schools conducted classes either in Turkish or in Greek.
Albanian intellectuals in the late nineteenth century began devising a single, standard Albanian literary language and making demands that it be used in schools. In Constantinople in 1879, Sami Frasheri founded a cultural and educational organization, the Society for the Printing of Albanian Writings, whose membership comprised Muslim, Catholic, and Orthodox Albanians. Naim Frasheri, the most-renowned Albanian poet, joined the society and wrote and edited textbooks. Albanian émigrés in Bulgaria, Egypt, Italy, Romania, and the United States supported the society's work. The Greeks, who dominated the education of Orthodox Albanians, joined the Turks in suppressing the Albanians' culture, especially Albanian-language education. In 1886 the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople threatened to excommunicate anyone found reading or writing Albanian, and priests taught that God would not understand prayers uttered in Albanian.
The Ottoman Empire continued to crumble after the Congress of Berlin. The empire's financial troubles prevented Sultan Abdül Hamid II from reforming his military, and he resorted to repression to maintain order. The authorities strove without success to control the political situation in the empire's Albanian-populated lands, arresting suspected nationalist activists. When the sultan refused Albanian demands for unification of the four Albanian-populated vilayets, Albanian leaders reorganized the League of Prizren and incited uprisings that brought the Albanian-populated lands, especially Kosovo, to near anarchy. The imperial authorities again disbanded the League of Prizren in 1897, executed its president in 1902, and banned Albanian-language books and correspondence. In Macedonia, where Bulgarian-, Greek-, and Serbian-backed terrorists were fighting Ottoman authorities and one another for control, Muslim Albanians suffered attacks, and Albanian guerrilla groups retaliated. In 1906 Albanian leaders meeting in Bitola established the secret Committee for the Liberation of Albania. A year later, Albanian guerrillas assassinated Korçë's Greek Orthodox metropolitan.
In 1906 opposition groups in the Ottoman Empire emerged, one of which evolved into the Committee of Union and Progress, more commonly known as the Young Turks, which proposed restoring constitutional government in Constantinople, by revolution if necessary. In July 1908, a month after a Young Turk rebellion in Macedonia supported by an Albanian uprising in Kosovo and Macedonia escalated into widespread insurrection and mutiny within the imperial army, Sultan Abdül Hamid II agreed to demands by the Young Turks to restore constitutional rule. Many Albanians participated in the Young Turks uprising, hoping that it would gain their people autonomy within the empire. The Young Turks lifted the Ottoman ban on Albanian-language schools and on writing the Albanian language. As a consequence, Albanian intellectuals meeting in Bitola in 1908 chose the Latin alphabet as a standard script. The Young Turks, however, were set on maintaining the empire and not interested in making concessions to the myriad nationalist groups within its borders. After securing the abdication of Abdül Hamid II in April 1909, the new authorities levied taxes, outlawed guerrilla groups and nationalist societies, and attempted to extend Constantinople's control over the northern Albanian mountainmen. In addition, the Young Turks legalized the bastinado, or beating with a stick, even for misdemeanors, banned carrying rifles, and denied the existence of an Albanian nationality. The new government also appealed for Islamic solidarity to break the Albanians' unity and used the Muslim clergy to try to impose the Arabic alphabet.
The Albanians refused to submit to the Young Turks' campaign to "Ottomanize" them by force. New Albanian uprisings began in Kosovo and the northern mountains in early April 1910. Ottoman forces quashed these rebellions after three months, outlawed Albanian organizations, disarmed entire regions, and closed down schools and publications. Montenegro, preparing to grab Albanian-populated lands for itself, supported a 1911 uprising by the mountain tribes against the Young Turks regime that grew into a widespread revolt. Unable to control the Albanians by force, the Ottoman government granted concessions on schools, military recruitment, and taxation and sanctioned the use of the Latin script for the Albanian language. The government refused, however, to unite the four Albanian-inhabited vilayets.
Warning for Canaris,
be careful with your mouse! ;D
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 13, 2008 0:24:52 GMT -5
Greeksdied4you, you gave me the most sincere and the best answer so far; turkoalvanos used as a derogative term; therefore I presented the league of Prizren; to find the main reasons why Albanians did what they did and what would have been the consequences for Albanians if they didn't.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 13, 2008 0:33:48 GMT -5
you gave me the most sincere and the best answer so far; turkoalvanos used as a derogative term; therefore I presented the league of Prizren; to find the main reasons why Albanians did what they did and what would have been the consequences for Albanians if they didn't. There is one more thing....Forgot to mention The Treaty of San Stefano. The Rise of Albanian Nationalism The Treaty of San Stefano The Treaty of San Stefano triggered profound anxiety among the Albanians meanwhile, and it spurred their leaders to organize a defense of the lands they inhabited. In the spring of 1878, influential Albanians in Constantinople--including Abdyl Frasheri, the Albanian national movement's leading figure during its early years--organized a secret committee to direct the Albanians' resistance. In May the group called for a general meeting of representatives from all the Albanian-populated lands. On June 10, 1878, about eighty delegates, mostly Muslim religious leaders, clan chiefs, and other influential people from the four Albanian-populated Ottoman vilayets, met in the Kosovo town of Prizren. The delegates set up a standing organization, the Prizren League, under the direction of a central committee that had the power to impose taxes and raise an army. The Prizren League worked to gain autonomy for the Albanians and to thwart implementation of the Treaty of San Stefano, but not to create an independent Albania. At first the Ottoman authorities supported the Prizren League, but the Sublime Porte pressed the delegates to declare themselves to be first and foremost Ottomans rather than Albanians. Some delegates supported this position and advocated emphasizing Muslim solidarity and the defense of Muslim lands, including present-day Bosnia and Hercegovina. Other representatives, under Frasheri's leadership, focused on working toward Albanian autonomy and creating a sense of Albanian identity that would cut across religious and tribal lines. Because conservative Muslims constituted a majority of the representatives, the Prizren League supported maintenance of Ottoman suzerainty. ================== Formidable barriers frustrated Albanian leaders' efforts to instill in their people an Albanian rather than an Ottoman identity. Divided into four vilayets, Albanians had no common geographical or political nerve center. The Albanians' religious differences forced nationalist leaders to give the national movement a purely secular character that alienated religious leaders. The most significant factor uniting the Albanians, their spoken language, lacked a standard literary form and even a standard alphabet. Each of the three available choices, the Latin, Cyrillic, and Arabic scripts, implied different political and religious orientations opposed by one or another element of the population. In 1878 there were no Albanian-language schools in the most developed of the Albanian-inhabited areas-- Gjirokastër, Berat, and Vlorë--where schools conducted classes either in Turkish or in Greek (see Education: Pre-Communist Era, ch. 2). So therefore is not a derogative term, but based on historical facts as pointed above. I really have to go now, laters !
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Post by slowdent on Mar 13, 2008 2:36:34 GMT -5
teuta
about the term, it is not a misconception
albs have been on the side of the turks for many years. many albs were successfull in the ottoman empire in getting administrative posts. so for many, the term "albanian" became a synonym to "turk". and it was used for more that 4 centuries. it is not easy to put a term like that to oblivion.
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 13, 2008 5:34:04 GMT -5
Turkalvanoi were the muslims of the ottoman empire, that did ("surprisingly) not talk turkish but albanian (arvanitika)...
They were not called simply Arvanites, since there were arvanitophone Christians in Epirus as well, and religion played at this time a far more important role than the mother tongue or ethnicity. So instead of muslim albanian they said turkish albanian -> turkalvanos. In addition to that the muslims of Epirus were predominantly albanian speaking people, who cooperated with the ottoman occupying force and later even governed Epirus (Vilayet of Yanya)...you know...Ali Pasha etc...
Thats at least what I think is this words root. Today its exclusively used for debasing purposes. The word Turk is in Greece till today kind of an insult, for sure a very negative term.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 13, 2008 7:27:00 GMT -5
^ Well said Kastorianos, you have pretty much covered the missing gaps before I had the chance to.
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Mimi
Amicus
Kosovo IS Albania!
Posts: 463
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Post by Mimi on Mar 13, 2008 8:17:14 GMT -5
this is why we will never get along with each other, you dont recognise our history, you make eveything negative about us, you never mention the fact that we fought very hard against ottoman empire. we dont see things eye to eye, you think just because we are muslim we have to be enemies and be wiped out of the map as you wished in the past, we did our best to survive as we were alone we did not get any help from outsiders, its ashame you dont understand us, we converted to islam to survive its was in our interest but it does not mean we want any harm on christian people, in fact we want good relationship with everyone in Europe what about those greeks who fough alongside with turks as well? fough hard to become friends with them so they would let them live. didnt they sold Maria to the Turks just so they could maintain their friendship I dont wanna be called anything other than Albanian even though i am a "muslim" i am first Albanian, European and then muslim, to some people i am not at all as i do not practice it. even if i did practice it we would still not be like those muslim outside europe as we think differently, we do not feel connected with them in anyway.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 13, 2008 10:06:36 GMT -5
teuta about the term, it is not a misconception albs have been on the side of the turks for many years. many albs were successfull in the ottoman empire in getting administrative posts. so for many, the term "albanian" became a synonym to "turk". and it was used for more that 4 centuries. it is not easy to put a term like that to oblivion. Such a foolish logic…. The Europe history has not any evidence what greeks have done against the ottoman empire…..only at the end 1821 revolution managed by arvanitas…… On the other hand there are Albanians have their evidences every each of century…… Austrio-Hungarian Empire evidences doesn’t mention anything about greeks, but about Albanians…. Russia as a strong winner was pro-Slavs and Pro greeks plans…..it’s about their feeling ….and Greace is a gift to you, given by Russia, who forced England and other allies to cat off Albanian land…. It is mention by England diplomacy: We are doing a big mistake in the Balkan, but we have to do so, to respect our allies (means Russia )I’ll find the scorches and I’ll bring it here. Albs had a splendid carrier in all the World History(at least lived and written)….What about greeks …nothing… jealous …stilling Albs heroes and….that’s why you are jelous….nothing to prove …..only craps… There are more Greeks and Serbs involved in Otoman empire structures, in the number but with a low carrier regarding their capabilities…. You can’t say no….looks silly…. So Concluded :Albs fought against Ottoman Empire more than every Europe countries…. However, during the last times, Turkey is in a good position, power army, US Allie, we don’t need to care about you, who care what you think…Russia is not empire anymore…. Don’t be nervous and alogic….. According to that :What gone happened to next Empire….Europe…I hope you’ll say albs are Europeans and Europe is Christians our big enemy ….because you belong to east….otherwise greace can not exist ….. Regarding to the thread: Fatos Lubonja is not a Albanian origine, is a Vlahe orthodox …but we don’t kill and force people, with different theses like greeks, we just ignore them…..because the world know already….Greeks can buy for cheap a few Non- Albanians.. skeletons on the cemeteries but not real Albanians…… At least are offers everyday for old people, in south of Albania…..pension 300 Euro….just say ‘I’m Greek’, but most of those people, with a little pension from a Albanian government are buying only tomatoes ……….to let off those offers…. My books are ready ….waiting in the library….don’t make this conversation in your craps way…..
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Post by slowdent on Mar 13, 2008 10:14:12 GMT -5
atlantis
talking about foolish logic.
like?
example?
talking about foolish logic
I am waiting for the "scorches"
yeap. I need proof about albanian heroes of the wwii.
evidence?
bs online: prove what you say.
geopolitical analysis 101.
geopolitical analysis 102.
there is no price tag on albanian skeletons?
albanian pride all the way. if there is a raisse in pension would they accept to be called Papua?
atlantis, open them and read them for a change....
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 13, 2008 10:32:50 GMT -5
So says this person whose ancestors scaled the wall of Psara to slaughter Greeks.....
Oh yeah...Arvanites were originally Greeks living in your area of the world who came to the rescue of their beloved homeland.... nothing ore nothing less...but you have the right to harp about it.... won't change my views...
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Post by atlantis on Mar 13, 2008 10:38:36 GMT -5
atlantis talking about foolish logic. like? example? talking about foolish logic I am waiting for the "scorches" yeap. I need proof about albanian heroes of the wwii. evidence? bs online: prove what you say. geopolitical analysis 101. geopolitical analysis 102. there is no price tag on albanian skeletons? albanian pride all the way. if there is a raisse in pension would they accept to be called Papua? atlantis, open them and read them for a change.... Frendly ......you think your capabilities are good enough as a answer for me .......I was hoping more challenge from you.......please don't dsappoint me...
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Post by slowdent on Mar 13, 2008 11:38:27 GMT -5
what a lame way to avoid a challenge:
The challenge is: provide the sources and the evidence proving what you said.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 13, 2008 13:26:38 GMT -5
what a lame way to avoid a challenge: The challenge is: provide the sources and the evidence proving what you said. Ok let's start with the first one known as a Georges Kastriotis... I like to go in my own order..... I like that ......I don't know why I brought ...that kind of presantation..... Gjergj Kastrioti “Skenderbeg” by Joseph J. DioGuardi Gjergj Kastrioti “Skenderbeg” “Matchable to the Greatest of the Great” –Edmund Spenser (Elizabethan poet) by Joseph J. DioGuardi From 1443, when he returned in triumph to the White Castle in Kruja to his deathbed at Lezha in 1468, Skenderbeg left an unforgettable legacy of great heroism in the defense of freedom. Gjergj Kastrioti lived and died for what he firmly believed were the sacred values of faith, virtue, honor, freedom, courage, and love of country. These universal values are clearly displayed in his correspondence and speeches, along with his deep philosophy of life and his incredible deeds. Who was Gjergj Kastrioti? Why is he an important historical figure? What can Albanians today learn from his life and deeds? Why is he not better known around the world? Kastrioti was the son of an Albanian prince, Gjon Kastrioti, who ruled the Albanian lands in the Balkan Peninsula at the end of the 14th century and the beginning of the fifteenth century. Gjon had kept the invading Ottoman Turks at bay for more than twenty years when he was forced into a deceptive peace treaty in 1422 with Sultan Murad II to secure the rear of the Turkish army in Southeast Europe and spare the lives of his people from the wrath of the Ottoman Empire. To guarantee the arrangement, the Sultan took Gjon’s youngest son, Gjergj, hostage to Adrianople, the European capital of the Ottoman Empire. Here, Gjergj was sent to the Ottoman military academy where he excelled in all ways and adopted the Moslem alias “Iskender Bey,” or Lord Alexander after Alexander the Great. Skenderbeg’s excellent academic and military record caught the eye of the Sultan, who gave him the rank of general even before reaching twenty years of age. Skenderbeg’s military successes against the enemies of the Ottoman Empire became legendary, as were the decorations and gifts bestowed on him after each incredible triumph. An important turning point in Skenderbeg’s life came when, in 1443, he received the sad news from Kruja of his father’s death. Gjon had defied and frustrated the Ottomans for more than fifty years and the Sultan grew suspicious of Skenderbeg’s potential to take his father’s place in trying to perpetuate a free Albania even after Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, and Serbia had been conquered. Skenderbeg sensed the danger to him and to his father’s people and decided to seize the moment in November 1443, when he was sent on a military excursion to defeat the Hungarians led by another great freedom fighter (and thorn in the side of the Sultan), Janos Hunyadi. Rather than do the Sultan’s dirty work at Nish (in Serbia today), he fooled his fellow Ottoman commanders and fled the battlefield to Kruja with three hundred of his loyal Albanian horsemen. Two weeks after triumphantly entering Albania at Dibra, he stormed the White Castle at Kruja on November 28, 1443 and deposed the Ottoman governor there. The next twenty-five years would see some of the greatest military feats against the ever powerful and growing Ottoman Empire. It was only after Skenderbeg’s death in 1468 that the Ottomans were able to get a foothold in Albania. Without their great leader, the struggle against the Ottomans faltered, leading to a complete occupation of Albanian lands in 1488. This lasted 425 years until Ismail Qemali raised Skenderbeg’s double-headed eagle banner at Vlora on November 28, 1912. It is one thing for Albanians today to praise and honor Gjergj Kastrioti. But let’s now take some time to hear about this saintly knight, his incredible military genius, and our Albanian national hero from those who knew him well. Having now read a great deal about Skenderbeg, it became evident that a Roman Catholic priest from Shkodra, Marin Barletius, wrote the most comprehensive and vivid account of Skenderbeg’s life and deeds. His twelve-volume work included Kastrioti’s letters, speeches, and his philosophy of life, religion, and nation. Since Barletius was a contemporary of Skenderbeg, he had access to firsthand information from the battlefields, the archives in Rome, and many other personal firsthand accounts from witnesses of Kastrioti’s phenomenal accomplishments, character, and charisma. The scholarly work of Barletius, originally written in Latin, was translated widely, including French and English, which allowed many to know about the legendary feats of Skenderbeg. The nineteenth-century American poet Henry Wadsworth Longfellow had been mesmerized reading about the incredible life and deeds of Gjergj Kastrioti. His epic poem “Scanderbeg” gave a vivid account of Kastrioti triumphant in Kruja on November 28, 1443: …Anon from the castle walls The crescent banner falls, And the crowd beholds instead, Like a portent in the sky, Iskander’s banner fly, The Black Eagle with double head. And shouts ascend on high …”Long live Scanderbeg. Skenderbeg’s genius has been likened by many military experts to Alexander the Great. Major General James Wolfe, commander of the English army at the siege of Quebec, Canada, wrote to Lord Sydney that “Scanderbeg exceeds all the officers, ancient and modern, in the conduct of a defensive army. I met him in Turkish history but nowhere else.” Historian Edmond Gibbon in his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire said: “In the list of heroes, John Hunyadi and Scanderbeg are commonly associated and entitled to our notice since their occupation of arms delayed the ruin of the Greek (Byzantine) Empire…. The Albanian prince may justly be praised as a firm and able champion of his national independence. The enthusiasm of chivalry and religion has ranked him with the names of Alexander the Great and Pyrrhus….” Even the Elizabethan poet Edmund Spenser held that Scanderbeg was “matchable to the greatest of the great” in his preface to an English translation of Barletius, which concluded by saying: To one whom later age has brought to light, Matchable to the greatest of the great: Great both in name and great in power and might, And meriting a mere triumphant feat. The scourge of Turks, and plague of infidels, Thy acts, O’ Scanderbeg, this volume tells. Finally, among the many, many accounts of one Albanian hero, we turn to the notable nineteenth-century English literary figure Lord Byron who fell in love with everything he saw in Albania. Like Kastrioti, Byron had a deep love of freedom and national independence. In his poem “Child Harold’s Pilgrimage,” he wrote: Land of Albania, where Islander rose, Theme of the young, and beacon of the wise, And he, his namesake, whose oft-baffled foes Shrunk from his deeds of chivalrous emprize. Land of Albania, let me bend my eyes On thee, though rugged nurse of savage men! Where is the foe that ever saw their back?…. In short, Gjergj Kastrioti was an exceptional military genius, a man of great faith and courage, a philosopher and one who cherished personal freedom and national independence. He was the subject of many books, poems, and even an opera by Vivaldi! His imposing figure, sword in hand, atop his majestic stallion, graces the capitals of Italy, Austria, and Hungary today. And, on the 600th anniversary of his birth, a Congressional Resolution introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives, the most democratic forum in the world, recounts his many deeds and his importance as an historic figure not just for Albanians and the Balkans, but Western Europe, which he saved from Ottoman domination. What Albanians can learn today from Skenderbeg’s life and deeds is limitless. As a man of great faith, he placed himself at God’s mercy on many occasions where he was facing overwhelming odds. On one such occasion, after defeating the Hungarian army at Varna in 1445, Sultan Murad sent a threatening letter to Skenderbeg, who now stood between the Ottoman Empire and a Europe in disarray. True to his nature as a great leader and man of God with a steadfast vision of freedom for his people and all of Europe, he boldly responded to the Sultan: Cease your angry threats and tell us not of the Hungarian (mis)fortune. Every man has his own resolution…and so will we with patience endure such fortune as it shall please God to appoint us. Meanwhile, for direction of our affairs, we will not request counsel of our enemies, nor peace from you, but victory by the help of God! Albanian leaders today, especially in Kosova seeking complete independence from Serbia, would do well to emulate the resolute way in which Skenderbeg pursued his vision of freedom for his people. He made no room for compromise with his enemies and showed fierce determination to prevail even in the face of such a formidable adversary as the Ottoman Empire. He did this relying not only on his skill as a great national leader and military tactician, but on his belief in God’s providence as well. We can all learn from Skenderbeg’s great example in pursuing the Albanian national cause today. Skenderbeg again showed his great faith in God and deep loyalty to friends after his great friend and patron Alphonse, King of Naples and Sicily, died in 1460. Italy was plunged into bloodshed and rebellion, and Ferdinand I, Alphonse’s son and successor, came under attack from the French once again. Feeling a deep moral obligation to repay his steadfast friends and allies on the other side of the Adriatic, Skenderbeg himself led an elite cavalry of two thousand men there in the summer of 1461 and soon turned the tide against the French and their Italian collaborators in the bloody battle of Apulia. In reading the accounts of Skenderbeg’s exhortation to his soldiers before the battle of Apulia, one is reminded of George Washington exhorting his troops at Valley Forge: This now is our case, my good soldiers…. We are now across the sea far from our own homes and from our own country…. We are amongst strangers, altogether without hope of ever returning again to our own (home)…if we do not win a notable victory over our enemies. But have courage, my men: Let us consider that this is God’s will…that we should maintain…the seat of the Church. And never doubt that He will send us even from heaven an easy and speedy victory…and then shall we return to our own country victors, joyous and triumphant. One might ask, after hearing of the greatness of Skenderbeg, why he is not as well known today as before. I believe that the history of Gjergj Kastrioti is inextricably tied to that of the Albanian people. The Albanian nation was submerged under the Ottoman Empire for 425 years. When it emerged in 1912, it was unfairly divided so that only half of the seven million Albanians who live in the Balkans today live in the State of Albania, with the other half living on her borders in five other jurisdictions. The State of Yugoslavia was created after World War I on the backs of the Albanian people and on their land. Then Communism again submerged the Albanian people—this time throwing them into a political and economic “black hole,” stretching from Belgrade to Tirana, for almost fifty years after World War II. It is a wonder that the Albanian people kept their language, their history, and their hope alive throughout the last six hundred years of occupation and resistance. It is a wonder that, amid all the national stress and personal sacrifice, that Gjergj Kastrioti has not been forgotten altogether. But he has not been forgotten, and it is a tribute to this greatness and to the besa* of the Albanian people that, against all odds, Albanians are standing free today, in Albania and Kosova, and that the sons and daughters of Skenderbeg continue to adore him as their national hero and liberator, and are building even more memorials to his past and present glory and significance—even, with a U.S. Congressional Resolution (H.Res. 522), in the capital of the only superpower in the world today, Washington, DC. Author’s Postscript The battle of Apulia in the southern part of the Italian Peninsula, near Naples, is of special significance to me and my family. In 1461, after Skenderbeg and his elite cavalry helped save the Kingdom of Naples from French domination, the future security of the Kingdom was assured when Gjergj Kastrioti decided to leave two thousand horsemen there, while he returned to Albania to continue to defend the Albanian people from Ottoman Turkish domination. As an inducement for Skenderbeg to agree to what must have been a difficult decision for him, the King of Naples awarded the Albanian soldiers an area about forty miles east of Naples, including a high mountaintop village called Greci. Greci had been formed by Greek farmers and merchants in 535 AD and had since declined after most Greeks abandoned the area that they had controlled in the first millennium. Albanians changed the name of the village to “Katundi,” which is the name used today by the Albanian residents, even though the Italians still call it Greci. My father, Joseph, Sr. immigrated to America from Katundi in 1929 at the age of fifteen. His family is descended from one of Skenderbeg’s two thousand soldiers, and this is a great reminder that the seeds of Skenderbeg are still spreading across the oceans of the world today. * Besa is derived from the ancient moral code of the Albanian people.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 13, 2008 13:31:51 GMT -5
Second..... Try to understand our epos.....Albanian one Nora of Kelmendi She can also be called the Albanian Brunhilde too, for she herself was one of the greatest female warriors in the history of Albania. There are two versions of Nora and both versions end with Nora killing the Pasha (a Bosnian man ) who has been documented to have been the leader of the Ottoman Army and who had taken a Public Oath to turn Malesia into ashes if Nora did not become his wife. The events happened around 1620. Nora’s father, a Noble Fighter wanted a son to help him fight against the ottoman empire. When Nora, a girl was born, he took her to an orphanage in Shkodra and left her there. His sister, knowing the doings of her brother, took Nora back and raised her as a boy. Nora's biological father, having the desire to train some young man to become a fighter, decided to train the adapted “son” of his sister. Hence, unknowingly, he trained his own daughter to become a fighter. But there is no way to fight biology, so when Nora grew up, she become Malesia’s most beautiful women. It is said that she was as pretty as a true Zane (mountain fairy). Her fame spread through the whole country. The Pasha who resided at the Rozafati Castle in Shkodra, heard of her too. One day Nora came down to the city with her parents. The Pasha came out of Castle and saw her. He fell in love. Initially, he wanted to marry her by the laws of the Albanian Kanun, which meant he would send a trusted man to Nora’s house and ask for her hand. However, Nora's family replied that the Albanian KAnun did not allow for marriages with non-Albanians. The Pasha was not used to being refused. He was quoted as stating "I'll burn all of Malesia to ashes he said, or Nora will become my wife". That was not the first or the last time for someone to attempt to burn Malesia to the ground, so nobody was afraid of the threat. It was bound to happen either for taxes, solders or the refusal to recognize the Ottoman legal system, anyway. The Pasha was serious. He lead his huge army and besieged Malesia. Nora had proved to be a warrior. As a young woman as she was, she had proved to be the noblest and the most beautiful girl of all, but life had thrown yet another challenge at her. She had to prove that she was wise too, for wisdom is the thing most appreciated by the people of Malesia. She devised the plan of how to kill the mad Bosnian Pasha. This is what happened according to various Albanian Epics. Nora pretended to want to marry the Pasha without the permission of her family. Dressed in the traditional Xhubleta, she went to Pasha's tent. Seeing her, the Pasha fell on his knees and began to pray to the divinities believing she was a true gift from heaven, as a reward by the almighty Allah for his services to Him. Pasha ordered his troops to rest and prepare to go back to Shkodra. The solders were happy to lay down their spears. While everything was quiet around the Pasha's tent, Nora pulled a dagger that her father had given to her, which he had gotten as a gift from his own father, who had gotten it as a gift from his own father and so on and so forth. The dagger was in the family longer than anyone could remember. It was used strictly in wars, that is to say, the dagger was used only as a weapon to kill the enemy. This time, though, it turned out to be a regular dagger, made of steel, by a smith in the Middle Ages. She stabbed the Pasha a few times, kicked him around the back of his head, and choked him a little so he would not scream. The Pasha fell on his Persian rug. At that point Nora could no longer stab him for he was lying on the floor. Nora ran as planned, at this time the Malesors attacked the Ottomans army and destroyed them. The Pasha survived the stab wounds. He created his own special unit, and followed Nora to her home. There is a second legend. In this legend, Nora never went to the tent, but as the men were fighting on one side and the Ottomans had stealthily attempted to attack surrounding villages, she led an army of 300 women against the Ottomans. It is said that Nora had a duel with Pasha and she killed him.In both versions, Nora kills the Pasha in a fair duel. And in both stories he is from Bosnia and is called Vutsi Pasha. It is proven historically that around 1620, the Bosnian Pasha, Vutsi Pasha, lead an expedition against the malesors, and there are documents that state that a woman was one of the most distinguished warriors. Anyhow, both stories are interesting. They are both mixed in legends and history. The malesors are truly a people that are of worthy mention in any legend. For centuries they have fought the Turk, Slav and various would-be invaders. Nora is one of the heroines that has contributed to the illustrious legacy of the Malesors, and all Albanian people while at the same time, reminding them of what is to be done to those who would attempt to pillage and ransack them. Retrieved from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelmendi
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Post by atlantis on Mar 13, 2008 14:59:52 GMT -5
What greeks were doing, during this time ........kissing ottoman a......paying taxes and never complained .....simple, ottoman empire didn’t fight with orthodox greeks ,you know ....Istanbul Patriarchana... was Ok ...dealing with Sulltan at this time ....falling In love....and poor greeks ....couldn’t get any Albanian heroes at this time....ottomans were the ones..... .we used to lease our heroes all over the world...make everybody happy
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Post by albquietman on Mar 13, 2008 15:09:20 GMT -5
Good thread...well thought . We albanians of course take the word tourkoalvane as an insult, not because we have something against turks, but because of the way and the situations we've been labeled as a such. Some of the greeks here tried to explain us why they use this word, and the main stream is that albanians historically (according to them) are sided with the turks. Well, I don't think that's true, but and even in some points albanians sided with the turks, that was done because of our neighboroughs. Teuta, the league of Prizren, as the article says, in the beginning was for an Albania under the ottoman empire. They had good reason if we see the picture back then, and that reason was to survive as a nation and as a country. Serbia, Greece and Montenegro, all of them according to the Treaty of Saint Stefan, were already ready to share Albania between them. Of course the League of Prizren, seeing that none of the big powers at that time were on the Albania's side, had to choose the best between the worst, and that was the Ottoman Empire, which promised to protect the territorial integrity of Albania. History tells us that even the ottomans later on didn't care about albanians, so we were left alone to fight against all. Thanks to the western powers at that time (which was on their interests by the way) they didn't allow Serbia, Greece and Montenegro to share all of our lands, so at least half of our country was saved. Ironically we get labeled tourkoalbanians even today after more than 100 years by the ones that made us to make that choice, to side with turks in order to get serbs, greeks and montenegrins off our lands. If we look back at the time when ottomans were in Balkans, weren't only albanians that sided with the ottomans. As a matter of fact, as atlantis mentioned, we and hungarians were the only nations in Europe to fight against them, and we albanians even had our own state at that time for 25 years. I always wonder where were greeks at that time, what they were doing by the way? Well some sources tell us they were busy doing business with the ottomans, like the one below: Greek life did not end when the Ottoman Turks took Constantinople in 1453. When the Ottomans imposed the millet system, the Greeks began with some obvious advantages relative to other Balkan Christians and added others as time went by.
Greek Orthodox clergy controlled the Orthodox millet. The Turks lumped together all their Balkan Christian subjects, Greek or Slav. Greek clergy therefore had substantial religious, educational, administrative and legal power in the Ottoman Balkans. The "Phanar" or lighthouse district of Istanbul became the center of Ottoman Greek culture after the patriarch took up residence there, and the well-connected Greeks of that city were known as Phanariots. Orthodox culture, faith and educational systems became identified with Greek culture. Educated Orthodox Slavs were likely to become Hellenized.
Greeks also benefited from reductions in the autonomy of the non-Greek churches. For example, when Serbs assisted invading Habsburg armies in the 1600s and 1700s, Serbian bishoprics were abolished as punishment. Greeks acquired political and economic power in the Romanian districts of Wallachia and Moldavia through similar events. Until 1711, the Ottomans picked the governors or hospodars of these provinces from the local Romanian boyar class. After Romanians supported a Russian invasion in 1711, Phanariot Greeks replaced Romanians as hospodars.
Greeks held administrative roles in the central Ottoman administration itself. Greeks ran the office of the Dragoman, the head of the sultan's interpreters' service, because Muslims were discouraged from learning foreign languages. Greeks therefore participated in diplomatic negotiations and some became de facto ambassadors. At a lower administrative level, Phanariots secured most of the contracts for tax-farmers (men who bid to collect a district's taxes, and took their profits from excess revenues squeezed out of the peasants). Greeks also acted as contractors to the Ottoman court, supplying food and other services.
Such advantages slowed the Greek encounter with national identity in the modern form. Religion, not ethnic descent or language, was the first criterion for identification in the millet system. Religion, not language or residence, distinguished wealthy Orthodox Greeks from their Muslim Ottoman counterparts. Some Anatolian Greeks did not even speak the Greek language. Nor was "Greece" a definable place. Only half of the four million Greeks lived in modern mainland Greece as we know it today: the Morea, Thessaly, Epirus and Thrace. The other two million were scattered in towns along the coast of Anatolia, the Black Sea or the Mediterranean.
On the Greek mainland, Greek notables already exercised substantial local power. Because the Morea or Peloponnessus was rather poor, in 1800 only 40,000 Turks lived there among 360,000 Greeks. The Turks owned two-thirds of the land, but lived in a few cities. Large stretches of countryside had no Turkish presence at all. In those areas, Greek primates or "kodjabashis" virtually ruled themselves, meeting in regional assemblies to supervise taxation and other administrative matters. Greek militia or "armatoli" kept the peace while "klephts" or bandits flourished in the hills.
Greek shipowners in the islands enjoyed similar advantages. Greeks dominated Balkan commerce by the 1700s. Some islands paid no taxes in cash, instead contributing via the labor of sailors. As Christians, Greek traders were exempt from certain Muslim ethical and legal restraints on money-lending at interest. Greeks were permitted commercial contacts with non-believers, an awkward matter for Muslims. Turkish hostility toward Western Europeans also played into Greek hands. Tiresome regulations and occasional anti-European riots discouraged Western Europeans from coming to Turkey: instead Westerners who did business in the region used local Jews, Armenians or Greeks as agents for reasons of safety, language and convenience. Different branches of the same Greek family often operated in different cities, so that ties of kinship reduced the risks of trade.
Greeks were not merely commercial agents, but also shipowners and captains. Between 1529 and 1774 only ships under Ottoman registry could navigate in the isolated waters of the Black Sea, so Greek trade there grew without competition from the Venetians. When the 1774 Treaty of Kuchuk Kainarji opened the Turkish straits to Russian commerce, there were not enough Russian ships to meet that country's export needs: the treaty allowed Ottoman Greeks to register their ships in Russia, and so they benefitted from the new rules. Anglo-French naval warfare during the Napoleonic Wars also cleared the seas for Greek ships: most Western merchant ships found the Mediterranean too dangerous. By the 1810s there were over 600 Greek trading ships afloat, many armed with cannon because of the threat of piracy. www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lecture6.htmlSeems like the greeks have a way of surviving that's why they were luckier than us and they didn't change their religion, not because they fought against the ottomans, but because they collaborated with them, and that was a bonus given to them by the ottomans. We all know that most of the albanians converted to muslim by the beginning of the 19 century forced by the ottoman tax systems or simply by force, because we fought against them, we didn't collaborate with them...I'm just wondering now who is supposed to get labeled turk...except turks of course
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Post by terroreign on Mar 13, 2008 15:36:28 GMT -5
I think the term gayreek is a misconception, most greeks arent gay, but most gays are greek
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