rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Mar 22, 2008 18:24:23 GMT -5
the peasant said
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 22, 2008 18:43:50 GMT -5
calm down rexo I didnt mean you with peasant but your previous writer. Vain plako.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Mar 22, 2008 20:05:42 GMT -5
oh...ok
I thought I was getting my just revenge ...
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 22, 2008 21:07:13 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 22, 2008 21:18:26 GMT -5
Yes but Völkerwanderung means the migration of many peoples within Europe....its a main concept, its "die Völkerwanderung" and not "die deutsche Völkerwanderung".
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 22, 2008 22:05:40 GMT -5
Well, it mainly involved Germans, especially for the French. But anyway, thats besides the point.
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Post by albquietman on Mar 23, 2008 0:13:09 GMT -5
Stop claiming them as of greek origin...isn't that simple?
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 23, 2008 0:29:37 GMT -5
Thats a very simple explanation. Albanians take a lot of pride in the fact that we made up such a powerful warrior class in the old days and its something that we take comfort in, especially considering out modern situation. We also take pride in the fact that we composed 85% of the famed Byzantine led Stradiotes, dominated the Janissary class of the Ottoman Empire and the fact that we could be found as mercenaries as far north as the Netherlands and Russia. Suliots fall in line with this old semi-mythological identity of the classical Albanian warrior. A warrior class that died out with the coming of modernity.
I say that its the opposite. It an inherent Greek superiority complex that creates these ideas that somehow people who speak the spoke the same language as us and came from the same territory did not have any connection to us whatsoever. An inability to accept that that influence was there. It would be a stab in the heart to a Greek to accept that anyone they admire had an even mild Albanian origin. This racism is obvious in the many people we see in this forum.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 23, 2008 0:34:25 GMT -5
Souliotes were Greeks.
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Post by albquietman on Mar 23, 2008 2:10:30 GMT -5
Yes they were...try to get some sleep now....
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Mar 23, 2008 7:15:15 GMT -5
Toskali ... për stratiotët që luftonin në Holandë kam lexuar. Por në Rusi? Mjaft interesante! ----------------------------------------------
The Suliotes were Albanian. They were a monoglot population, meaning that they only spoke Albanian. This is clarified by the despot Evlojios Kurilas, a Suliot himself, who wrote that the Suliotes 'are Albanians and speak Albanian'. Marko Boçari ('Markos Botsaris') was a rare exception, since he learned Greek in Corfu and used this to write an original dictionary.
Although quite controversial in many aspects, Aristidh Kola/Aristides Kolias mention alot of facts as well, and quotes interesting passages from other works that help us create an understanding of disputed issues, such as the identity of Suli. Among others, he quotes A.Gudha/Gudas, Marko Boçari's secretary;
"From the pharmacist Varuha, a travelling Suliot in Epirus who had spent time learning about tales and legends from elderlies in Suli, we heard following in the year of 1854; after the catastrophy (i.e. death) of Skanderbeg, some 200 Orthodox warriors of his left their original habitat and settled in Epirus. The leaders of this group were two men called Boçari & Xhavella. They settled in Suli where they preserved their warlike ways and religion. "
βíoνς παραλληλuνς, p.46. Gudha mentions that this tale was also confirmed by Kristo Andreu, and so the author concludes that the Suliotes differ from all their Christian neighbours, which he says is explained by the fact that they came from Northern Albania.
The northern origins of the Suliotes is also supported by Leondios Leondiou, another Suliot ("The Albanian issue" 1897, p.122-4). The obvious nature of this highland population is also confirmed by Western travellers such as Leake & Pouquoville. When New York Times described the bravery of the Suliot women who took their lives instead of allowing capture, they labeled them 'Albanian'. Not only was the Albanian language present, but also the ways and culture which was clearly associated with Albania and the Albanians, and more specifically, the territory known as 'Free Albania' (the northern highlands that touch Montenegro).
Ethnically and culturally, it is obvious to the one who is not blind what they were and were not. But it is also a fact that they today are very much Greek. But to project modern Greek nationalism so far back to this specific region is wrong. The Suliotes did not fight the Ottomans for Greece because they necessarely felt 'Greek' or displayed a nationalistic sense of pride over (allegedly) being 'Greek'. Rather they had lost their former status as autonomous and free highlanders in Suli. They hated the Turks. In Greece's struggle for emancipation, they saw their opportunity to regain their honour and sieze a new chance to fight and display their traditional courage and strength. They saw a chance to start over. Better living in Orthodox Greece than as second class citizens in a more centralized Ottoman empire.
P:s Concerning the Suliotes' northern origins, I think it is a plausible idea/theory. Alot of fara's in Himarë also trace their origins to warriors who came from Mirdita and Kruja and even Dukagjin. Who says that such pioneers couldn't search a little more south? After Skanderbeg's death and even during his last years, the Turks ravaged Albania and decimated its population by 1/4. Such an impact might have very well forced some warriors to seek distant lands to start over again (afterall, they settled as far as Italy & Sicily). This just adds glory to the Suliotes, as descendants of Skanderbeg's legendary men.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 23, 2008 7:25:43 GMT -5
Donnie this topic should have been moved to the Greek forum as requested, as you know the Souliotes were / are Greeks. To think either wise is to be a fool.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 23, 2008 8:31:47 GMT -5
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Post by Georgios Kastriotis on Mar 23, 2008 8:55:00 GMT -5
Im Greek, my name is Greek Shiptars dont lie
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 23, 2008 9:30:08 GMT -5
the insolence of these culture thieves, they have nothing of substance during their post-helen era and try to fill the vaccum by pleagerising our history, i don't know whether to take pity or punch them in their filthy greek mouths, i oughta slap the persian dark complextion off u!!!
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 23, 2008 9:58:59 GMT -5
why?
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Post by atlantis on Mar 23, 2008 10:36:26 GMT -5
Im Greek, my name is Greek Shiptars dont lie You are kokrra e trapit...............
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 23, 2008 10:37:20 GMT -5
its a little smth called undeniable historical evidence my friendly neighbour, its a revolutionary notion thats been around for ages, yet to reach greece.
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Post by telemaque on Mar 23, 2008 11:26:40 GMT -5
Greeks have lied so much about history they finally believe their craps...
if every movies, every book you can read the invader saying : "we will erase everything yours, and no one in the future will remember you've ever existed"...even in the fiction movie 300, they say it...
it goes so for us Albanians, but it didn't work for all of us...we're still there....
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 23, 2008 11:44:42 GMT -5
what has historical evidence to do with ethnic backgrounds...nothing.
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