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Post by arberian on Sept 26, 2008 21:29:34 GMT -5
Hello, I know I'm new here, so forgive me if I'm breaking any rules or doing anything wrong here. I have been researching my family for quite some time, and have known for a while that my mother's family was Arbëreshë, the descendants of refugees who left Albania at the time of Skanderbeg's death. I know I'm probably telling you what you already know, but the cities they then formed, kept the same traditions, religion and language, to this date, which is now 550 years later. In tracing my family back, my goal is connect my records back to the original family in Albania. It is widely known in the city my family settled in (Piana degli Albanesi / Hora e Arbëreshëvet) that the original city most of the people came from was Himarë. The new city was officially founded in 1488, the people having lived in refugee camps before that, and taken Venetian ships from Himarë some time before that, with conflicting records on when it happened, from three years prior, to 40 years before that. So, it might sound crazy, but the records in English are really lacking. I can't find much anywhere. So, literally the best records I found in English of the history of the Himarë area before the 20th century was in this thread, from the board prior to this: p100.ezboard.com/fbalkansfrm8.showMessageRange?topicID=7901.topic&start=1&stop=20So, I am hoping some of the people who made that thread are here. And, if you are or are not, would anyone be able to assist me in answering some questions or at least pointing me to someone who could? Thanks!
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Post by leandros nikon on Sept 27, 2008 3:25:39 GMT -5
a litle boring for my taste...i prefer to live for today if u ask me...life is too precious and these people are just bones today,like we r gonna be in a few years...seize the day boiz...
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Sept 27, 2008 12:40:20 GMT -5
Himare do te thote are me hime ku jetojne dhe ka ushqim vetem per gomare ;D. him+are=are me hime Greket e dikurshem qe emigruan ne tokat tona ne Shqiperi para shume vitesh nga frika e shqiptarit pranuan te jetojne ne zonat me te thella malore dhe kodrinore sic eshte dhermiu dhe himara .
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 27, 2008 16:24:41 GMT -5
Unfortunately is it true that English info on this is severely lacking and unless you are strong in Italian and have access to various local records, you will be out of luck. My best advice is to actually travel to the region in question and enter local libraries and registries. They will carry most census information there that would not be open anywhere else.
Anyway, what kind of help would you need?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Sept 27, 2008 16:38:20 GMT -5
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Post by arberian on Sept 27, 2008 16:56:26 GMT -5
Himare do te thote are me hime ku jetojne dhe ka ushqim vetem per gomare ;D. him+are=are me hime Greket e dikurshem qe emigruan ne tokat tona ne Shqiperi para shume vitesh nga frika e shqiptarit pranuan te jetojne ne zonat me te thella malore dhe kodrinore sic eshte dhermiu dhe himara . I'm going from the wikipedia entry ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himar%C3%AB ) Christ, I said I was no expert on this...
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Post by sotneser on Sept 27, 2008 17:40:51 GMT -5
Himare do te thote are me hime ku jetojne dhe ka ushqim vetem per gomare ;D. him+are=are me hime Greket e dikurshem qe emigruan ne tokat tona ne Shqiperi para shume vitesh nga frika e shqiptarit pranuan te jetojne ne zonat me te thella malore dhe kodrinore sic eshte dhermiu dhe himara . I'm going from the wikipedia entry ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himar%C3%AB ) Christ, I said I was no expert on this... Please ignore him
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Post by arberian on Sept 27, 2008 17:52:29 GMT -5
Unfortunately is it true that English info on this is severely lacking and unless you are strong in Italian and have access to various local records, you will be out of luck. My best advice is to actually travel to the region in question and enter local libraries and registries. They will carry most census information there that would not be open anywhere else. Anyway, what kind of help would you need? What i'm trying to do is trace my family back to the original city. There are two problems I have with this: 1. I do not know where to find records in Albania. According to the other thread, there were Censuses taken under the Ottoman Empire, and usually churches do keep records, but I don't know if either were true. Hell, I don't even know how old the churches are, there, if the previous ones were destroyed, or if the records were saved. So, I need help finding what exists and were to get it from. 2. Even though they kept the tradition and the language, all Albanian names were "Italianized." To paint a picture of how they were changed: the Albanian "Kuqi" became "Cucci," "Myzeqe" became "Musacchia," "Gjin" became "Ginno" and my theory is that "Dhima", "Dhrimaj" or "Dimogiannis" became "DiMaggio" (which is my mother's name). And, before you say it - that does not mean any other "DiMaggio's" were originally Albanian - just the ones in the city my ancestors came to, having adopted those similar names as refugees (I don't know why). I need to find out what that name was, to prove it right (and so that I can finally lay my research to rest). I am not comfortable having my mother's family, which was originally Albanian, not knowing what their name was. It's just wrong. So, basically all I want to do is know my mother's family's original name, in Albania where they came from and exactly when they escaped to Italy. That's it. As I said earlier, there's virtually nothing online on it. Thanks for being one of the few who responded positively. JR
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 27, 2008 18:09:25 GMT -5
DiMaggio is a purely Italian name. The "Di" means "of" or "son of" Maggio(May). My friends last name is DiMaria, meaning of Maria. Although I have went around a few Italian forums and they do admit that many of these surnames come from the area of Sicily called Piana degli Albanese. The Dimaggio surname I mean.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Sept 27, 2008 18:18:59 GMT -5
one name I think of when it comes to DiMaggio is Demaci
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 27, 2008 18:38:04 GMT -5
Demaci, I believe, is Turkish derived.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Sept 27, 2008 18:57:49 GMT -5
turkish ??
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Post by arberian on Sept 27, 2008 19:26:35 GMT -5
DiMaggio is a purely Italian name. The "Di" means "of" or "son of" Maggio(May). My friends last name is DiMaria, meaning of Maria. Although I have went around a few Italian forums and they do admit that many of these surnames come from the area of Sicily called Piana degli Albanese. The Dimaggio surname I mean. Hello, I am aware of this. My family is from that city. What I am saying is that I have records going back as far as that city exists showing that they had been there since the founding of it. They did not move from another Italian city to that city, especially since they spoke an entirely different language, dressed different and were a different religion than everyone else in Sicily. Today, there are zero names in the city that are their original Albanian spelling anymore. Therefore, since they weren't some random Sicilian DiMaggio's who moved there, all that they can be is people who took on that name after moving there, just like everyone else did in that city. Some other "Italianized" names in Piana Degli Albanesi that are move obvious are the Albanian Veizi becoming Virzì, Picari becoming Picone and Fshatari becoming Franchi. Is my problem a little clearer now? Believe me, I once thought the family was Sicilian, but after I found the records going all the way back, that proved it to be impossible.
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Post by arberian on Sept 27, 2008 19:36:56 GMT -5
Demaci, I believe, is Turkish derived. I know that's sort of meant to be sort of a derogatory comment (saying they're "really not Albanian"), but if that was the case, I'd actually be fine with it. I want the truth here, simple as that. Unfortunately, it's utterly impossible since they left before the Turks even got to Himarë/Himara/(whatever is the 'proper' way to spell it ). The way i've read it is that they left at the time Skanderbeg died, or in earlier waves some time before that. Today, for what i've gathered, there are people with the names of Dhima, Dima, Dimas, Dhrimaj and Dimogiannis in the city, but I never came across Demaci. I'll put it down on the list, though. Thanks!
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Sept 27, 2008 23:31:26 GMT -5
I dont know thaat i lived there so how do u want to find out after 500 years...if you are from the north of albania originally you got a better chance of finding out, the southern albos disbanded the clanish living a long time ago.
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Post by bordura on Sept 28, 2008 0:30:35 GMT -5
Hi arberian and good luck on your search. it is virtually impossible to find any records or data in towns of Albania of that time. Churches of the area also were small and not sophisticated to the point of collecting records and cataloging them. Even if they had any records in local level it is gone. maybe some registers cataloged and saved in more centrally positioned churches were saved and the best place to look for them is the national Archive in Tirana (i would doubt of any good result) but it is a possibility). Also 40 years of communism was a real flame on this type of records most of them were destroyed together with religious institutions physically burned or send for scrap.
One line of hope i suggest to search for Arberesh forums. I did come across some of them couple of years ago. Most of them are in English and Italian so it would be easy for you to participate. They seam to have a good virtual network. I don't remember any in particular but i remember browsing couple of hours and did find them organized and interesting. They absolutely are the most informed people on your question.
again good luck
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 28, 2008 1:52:43 GMT -5
For Albania, census data really started to come out during the Ottoman Empire. In particular use might be the Sancak-I-Arnavud by Hilal Inalcik. However I doubt the work has been translated into English and nor do I know how much use it will be. But it is essentially a record of early 14-15th century Ottoman census data on Albania.
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libofsha
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Post by libofsha on Sept 28, 2008 4:24:22 GMT -5
Demaci, I believe, is Turkish derived. I know that's sort of meant to be sort of a derogatory comment (saying they're "really not Albanian"), but if that was the case, I'd actually be fine with it. I want the truth here, simple as that. Unfortunately, it's utterly impossible since they left before the Turks even got to Himarë/Himara/(whatever is the 'proper' way to spell it ). The way i've read it is that they left at the time Skanderbeg died, or in earlier waves some time before that. Today, for what i've gathered, there are people with the names of Dhima, Dima, Dimas, Dhrimaj and Dimogiannis in the city, but I never came across Demaci. I'll put it down on the list, though. Thanks! no, you misunderstood, they're just branching off on parallell topics here, nothing to do with your quest, the arberesh were the most noble and proud albanians who couldn't bear living under ottoman occupation, that's why they fled, the fact that you guys after 500 years to this day preserve the old customs, songs and language is a testament to this proud people, so do not think that anyone has a hidden agenda towards you here, hopefully you'll get the information you need, however the records in albania are sketchy at best, its virtually impossible to find anything tangible, you might be able to find bits and pieces to help you, i think that there's a team of albanian historian trying to unravel the tangled web of information in the ottoman archives in turkey, that's the only hope to reveal many chronicles of those years i'm afraid
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Post by adolfmussolini on Sept 28, 2008 16:56:16 GMT -5
Himara is not a city its a town that has several villages. What do you want to know?
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Sept 28, 2008 19:08:30 GMT -5
Some saying that people from Himara are gegs which been moved there 100 years ago from Kruja.
So, Pirro Dhima could be Krutan from Albania!!!
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