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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 13, 2009 11:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by ilirdardani on Feb 13, 2009 11:47:28 GMT -5
95% of the churches in Southern Serbia together with Kosovo region as well as Crna Gora and Macedonia were all Albanian, most were Catholic, some Orthodox, which were taken by the slaves....er I mean Slavs, who turned to be the Serbs as the centuries went on.
You guys were barbarians when you arrived to the Balkans, we the Albanians welcomed you with open arms, let you stay here, helped you become civil and in the end your people killed OUR people, etc etc etc.
Now go back to Russia with all the hate that you have for my people, you don't belong in Europe.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 13, 2009 11:54:34 GMT -5
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Post by insomniac on Feb 13, 2009 12:31:09 GMT -5
Comparing Serbian culture with Albanian culture is like comparing the GDP per capita of Ghana with Louxembourg.
Albanians are proud to be Albanians not anything else. We laugh at Serb and what we see is a frustarated society evolved around the Kosovo myth.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 13, 2009 12:39:59 GMT -5
^ You're still telling me nothing. Cheap insults might be your only outlet but hey I'll reiterate if you want to talk about culture... The oldest institutions in Kosovo, the churches are Serbian. Do I need to post more photos? The oldest documents are Serbian (eg Decani Charter, Dusans code). The oldest religion is Serbian (ie Christianity not Islam), That is culture, that is Serbian.
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Post by insomniac on Feb 13, 2009 12:41:21 GMT -5
Well you did open the thread by insulting. Did you expect some sort of civilized conversation after that??
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Post by insomniac on Feb 13, 2009 12:53:59 GMT -5
The oldest institutions in Kosovo, the churches are Serbian. The churches are Byzantine ( a conglomerate of Bulgarian, Albanian catholic and Serbian churches)
The oldest documents are Serbian (eg Decani Charter, Dusans code). So what? We have Leke Dukagjini Code, around the same time as Dusan...
The oldest religion is Serbian (ie Christianity not Islam), Your religion is orthodox. Same as mine religion. It's not the oldest religion and its not "serbian".
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Post by kapetan on Feb 13, 2009 13:13:05 GMT -5
what a tired and pointless argument.
there is a group today called serbs, there is a group today called albanians. albanians got the better of serbs on the kosovo issue.
end of story.
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Post by insomniac on Feb 13, 2009 13:41:00 GMT -5
albanians got the better of serbs on the kosovo issue.
Serbs are going to wake up from their retarded phase sooner or later. Everything will come down to what the stomach thinks because people want food in their table.
Albs from Albania don't care about Kosovo or Albania that much. We just don't want out name tainted.
Why are Serb diaspora kids so patriotic? They live in a new country usually with all necesseties yet they care about a place they have never set foot in their lives. Australia provides them with good housing, education, peace, corruption-free yet they come here and yell how proud they are to be Serbian.
The only thing i want to ask these kids[not only serbian ones]. What are you still doing in Australia? You are doing "your country" a great disservice by staying there. Why don't you move back home where your nationalism will be more appreciated?
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 13, 2009 13:55:50 GMT -5
The oldest institutions in Kosovo, the churches are Serbian.The churches are Byzantine ( a conglomerate of Bulgarian, Albanian catholic and Serbian churches) Of course they are going to be Byzantine. Serbia was Byzantine. Serbs were one of the leaders of that empire. Of course Greek/Bulgarian presence is going to be there but it's only a side to the complete slav Serb dominance. The oldest churches are all Serbian & have specific Serbian history tied to them & were built by Serbian leadership. The oldest one, Pec was first mentioned as a seat of the Serbian Patriarchy. Stefan Decanski built Decani... Stefan Milutin built Gracanica & the oldest church in Prizren... etc The oldest documents are Serbian (eg Decani Charter, Dusans code). So what? We have Leke Dukagjini Code, around the same time as Dusan...;. Dukagjini's code was for northern Albania was it not? It's also 100 years after the Decani Charter which makes your point seem ridiculous. The Decani Charter also comprehensively records the population as majority Serbian. It paints an excellent picture of the dominant Serbian culture and population. This is just becoming pure denial from your side. The oldest religion is Serbian (ie Christianity not Islam), Your religion is orthodox. Same as mine religion. It's not the oldest religion and its not "serbian". Such a poor argument. The entire point is if there was such a predominant Albanian consciousness/culture/identity you would not have all converted to Islam. Islam is intertwined with culture. The culture of the Kosovo Albanians. We developed the Christian culture & held on to it whilst Albanians could not. Our culture is older beyond the Islamic Albanian culture.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 13, 2009 14:00:54 GMT -5
what a tired and pointless argument. there is a group today called serbs, there is a group today called albanians. albanians got the better of serbs on the kosovo issue. end of story. Am I disputing that? No. Albanians got the better of us thanks to America. Not much we can do now... though I wouldn't say the story is entirely over. But one thing I will not allow is for Albanians to highjack the proud Serbian history of Kosovo.
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Post by insomniac on Feb 13, 2009 14:24:47 GMT -5
We developed the Christian culture & held on to it whilst Albanians could not. Our culture is older beyond the Islamic Albanian culture.
Albanian culture is Albanian. That is we are a secular people with pagan traditions. We have been influenced by Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire and Ottoman Empire. I find it pretty insulting and also narrow minded for you to deliberately call my culture islamic or ottoman. My culture is as much ottoman as Serbian culture.
Of course they are going to be Byzantine. Serbia was Byzantine. Serbs were one of the leaders of that empire. Of course Greek/Bulgarian presence is going to be there but it's only a side to the complete slav Serb dominance. The oldest churches are all Serbian & have specific Serbian history tied to them & were built by Serbian leadership. The oldest one, Pec was first mentioned as a seat of the Serbian Patriarchy. Stefan Decanski built Decani... Stefan Milutin built Gracanica & the oldest church in Prizren... etc
Albanians do not deny the dominant Serbian culture in Kosovo during middle ages. What Serbs don't accept is that Albanians during this time were a dominant minority as well in Kosovo. We also participated in the fight against the Turks. I did mention there are Serbian churches in Kosovo but you dont acknowledge that a good part of those churches were Bulgarian. Some were previously catholic turned into an orthodox. What are you trying to prove here? You need some sort of measurement for culture. If to you culture consists of only middle ages churches that i would say that's pretty stupid.
Dukagjini's code was for northern Albania was it not? It's also 100 years after the Decani Charter which makes your point seem ridiculous. The Decani Charter also comprehensively records the population as majority Serbian. It paints an excellent picture of the dominant Serbian culture and population. This is just becoming pure denial from your side.
You cannot look at Northern Albania from the 1912 border-changes view.
But one thing I will not allow is for Albanians to highjack the proud Serbian history of Kosovo.
The most neutral and well research book on this subject is Kosovo: A short history by Noel Malcolm. Read it and you will find that many of your myths are ridiculous just as Noel debunks some Albanian claims of us being majority during the Middle Ages .
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Post by insomniac on Feb 13, 2009 14:34:48 GMT -5
Albanian consciousness/culture/identity you would not have all converted to Islam
Stupid quote of the year. That is if you equate Serbian = Religion. For us Albanians we are free of such complexes. We are a nation of many religions.
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Post by leshte on Feb 13, 2009 22:44:20 GMT -5
I am still trying to figure out why the Serbs are so much into religion. I mean wtf, these people were pagans one day. You changed religion from paganism to christianity. I mean wtf are you trying to prove. If I follow you logic, the Serbs were a bunch of idiots, lo lives, degenerates cuz they changed their religion, and couldn't withstand outside forces and stay pagan.
To us Albanians religion does not mean nationality, state or culture. That is we would not be less Albanian because a priest says stay Catholic/Orthodox or you are not Albanian. Stay christian or you are a traitor, or stay muslim or you are not Albanian or you are traitor. We don't give a damn about what they say. Religion does not identify our nation. We see priests and Hoxha's like we see politicians. All they do yap and B$ in search of followers who they can brainwash and control, and drive expensive cars, have lots of money and live on the backs of their followers. That is why you have at least 95% of Albanians who don't give a damn about religion, priests or Hoxha's. If you wanna believe in anything, fine. If you don't wanna believe in anything its still fine. We Albanians see religion as something which is individual. You chose who you believe in and what you believe in, not your state, not your society. That is why in the same family you'll find christians, muslims, agnostics, and atheists in Albania. Once you Serbs evolve to the point when your brain is able to process what I stated above then come again here. I request from you to be considerate enough and shut the fvck up about religion. We don't give a fvck. Go predicate in the streets. I've had enough of Jehova's witnesess. I don't wanna come home and read an annoying Serb predicating here about religion.
P.S There is an Albanian flag in that famous Serbian painting.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 13, 2009 23:17:29 GMT -5
^^ Above two.
I could also say that I do not understand why Albanians and also Bosnians downplay religion. And you really do. But I don't actually say that because I can completely understand why you would downplay religion as it simply does not serve your claims. It's a big strike against you. Particularly from a historical perspective, religion tells us alot about the prevailing culture. The fact that the majority of you converted to Islam tells us just how much of an influence the Ottomans had over you. The attainment of independence of the Serbian Orthodox church by Sveti Sava defines a unified Serbian consciousness. The fact that Serbs reject all Serbian converts to Islam, they now call themselves Bosniaks shows how much religion does influence identity. There are no Muslim Serbs. Religion is precisely what separates the slavs - Croats, Bosniaks & Serbs. Afterall we speak the same language and are genetically very close. And of course especially since Islam is such an invasive foreign anti-European supressive religion, and everyone can see that of course Albanians are going to try to downplay it.
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Post by leshte on Feb 13, 2009 23:38:53 GMT -5
OK now go up and read what you wrote again and try to realize how dumb you are as people, because like you say you are the same people with different religion and you killed and massacred each other.
You call it downplaying, or whatever floats your boat. We don't give a fvck about religion. Religion divides just like politics and we Albanians fully understand that. It is not different from it. Look at what you guys did to each other. We Albanians unlike you guys are smart enough to realize not to let a priest or a Hoxha dictate that we should see our own people as different because they chose to believe in something else. I give you a personal example In my family there are muslims, catholics, agnostics and atheists. All of them are of those religions in name only, meaning they dont follow any rituals or churches or mosques or whatever. Now if I was a Serb, what I get from what I read above, I should kill the other members of my family cuz they don't believe what I believe; because as you stated we are the same people but have different religions. That is just plain idiotic.
P.S You mention culture. It seems you are proud because you killed people who are just like you but of different religion, but you remained a true patriot orthodox Serb. So then are those churches the symbols of these murders among the same people? Are those symbols something to be proud of?
Our culture is totally different. Have whatever religion you want, you are still Albanian. Our language, and our customs our common history are what matters. Political beliefs and religious beliefs, do not define our nation. Of course you do not accept or better, you do not understand this. You are a Serb you were born and raised and programed differently. You were raised to believe that your religion is superior to others, that your religion makes a you a Serb. Because of that it is impossible for you to comprehend us, to comprehend the fact that religion in the daily life of the average Albanian comes last.
When it comes to religion, from what you stated above but also from what I hear from other Serbs it seems like Serbia is no better than the worst cases of middle east religious extremes. Very intolerant. If a born and raised Serbian decides to convert to catholicism or islam then from what you state above he is no longer considered a Serb by the Serbian society. He is shunned. Now compare this to the middle east religious extremeties and tell me how is that different. A person converting to christianity in Afganistan. Tell me how that is different.
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Post by malsor4life on Feb 13, 2009 23:46:22 GMT -5
^^ Above two. I could also say that I do not understand why Albanians and also Bosnians downplay religion. And you really do. But I don't actually say that because I can completely understand why you would downplay religion as it simply does not serve your claims. It's a big strike against you. Particularly from a historical perspective, religion tells us alot about the prevailing culture. The fact that the majority of you converted to Islam tells us just how much of an influence the Ottomans had over you. The attainment of independence of the Serbian Orthodox church by Sveti Sava defines a unified Serbian consciousness. The fact that Serbs reject all Serbian converts to Islam, they now call themselves Bosniaks shows how much religion does influence identity. There are no Muslim Serbs. Religion is precisely what separates the slavs - Croats, Bosniaks & Serbs. Afterall we speak the same language and are genetically very close. And of course especially since Islam is such an invasive foreign anti-European supressive religion, and everyone can see that of course Albanians are going to try to downplay it. The Serb mentality commands u to associate religion with identity. Albanians arernt like that, pure and simple. Maybe its impossible for you to understand, but for us it comes natural. Perhaps you are jealous that Serbs arent as tolerant as us ? Sure, there were religous influences throught the ages, but that didnt undermine Albanians identifying as Albanians first regardless of what faith they were. We all lived side by side peacefully without conflicts. You slavs in Ex-yugo should step outside the box for once and take a few pointers from Albs , and maybe all that stuff in the 90's wouldnt have happened.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Feb 14, 2009 12:45:42 GMT -5
what a tired and pointless argument. there is a group today called serbs, there is a group today called albanians. albanians got the better of serbs on the kosovo issue. end of story. I fully agreed!!! Viva Bosnia !!!!
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Post by leshte on Feb 15, 2009 0:49:20 GMT -5
Since we're talking about religion here's a head scratcher for the religious people of the forum by Greek philosopher Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
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Post by sotneser on Feb 15, 2009 8:12:56 GMT -5
OK now go up and read what you wrote again and try to realize how dumb you are as people, because like you say you are the same people with different religion and you killed and massacred each other. hahahaha....
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