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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 2, 2009 22:57:50 GMT -5
monsterofsouli is right there are many ancient pagan Greek traditions still practiced to this day. They have been covered up by our Christian/ East Roman past, trust me when i say this they are there, you just have to look hard enough. An example is our folklore and how we practice and what we eat during our religious holidays. which are those pagan traditions on greeks? dont lie because greeks are extremely religous and can't have pagan's tradition. We albanians still have pagan traditions it is way that we dont care about religion . ahh i forget and your folklor is albanian (costume, dance, polyfonik) and middle eastern/turkish (like pyrros dance, costume ect)
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Post by leandros nikon on Mar 2, 2009 23:05:53 GMT -5
again with the same old crap concerning the sub saharan origin of the modern greeks...the notorious arnaiz vilena theory...concider only that the nationality of about 40% of his team were...fyromians...anywayz,nature magazine has ridiculed this theory a long before...it was obviously fyromian nationalistic propaganda...the funny thing is that although fyromians and alboz hate each other's guts...they dont hesitate to use each other's anti-hellenic propaganda...and they make us feel sorry....bcz we realise that the balkans is one of the worse neighbors in the whole world for a civilised person to be...
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 2, 2009 23:05:56 GMT -5
Ill play devil's advocate here (hehe). Yes Prijes, there are a number of cultural traits (not on the level which we might put high attention on, but on smaller rural levels) where Greeks have maintained their culture. For one there remains the particular culture of people living in something which classical Athenians would call 'demes' (something like a village), which existed off of the surrounding agricultural land. That is there still remains the tendency to concentrate population rather then disperse it (as is more common among northern European rural life). Yet another trait is the traditional (I dont know if it exists today today but atleast until the early 20's century) distrust of borrowing money, which was seen as sort of anathema and to discourage it, atleast from what i know of classical texts, there was an extremely high interest rate (something like 15%, but Ive seen as high as 40%). Besides that you also have the rural preservation of the rather ancient lament poetry, which was originally banned by the church but after the 12th century or so was revived as fear of paganism had faded. I can keep going. We need to keep our dislike and distaste within the bounds of accepting reality...
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Post by leandros nikon on Mar 2, 2009 23:17:03 GMT -5
midle eastern my a@#se...anyway,that's one of my favorite custom/dance...Momogeroi!
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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 2, 2009 23:17:18 GMT -5
monsterofsouli is right there are many ancient pagan Greek traditions still practiced to this day. They have been covered up by our Christian/ East Roman past, trust me when i say this they are there, you just have to look hard enough. An example is our folklore and how we practice and what we eat during our religious holidays. which are those pagan traditions on greeks? dont lie because greeks are extremely religous and can't have pagan's tradition. We albanians still have pagan traditions it is way that we dont care about religion . ahh i forget and your folklor is albanian (costume, dance, polyfonik) and middle eastern/turkish (like pyrros dance, costume ect) The pagan traditions of Greeks have not been fading away just because of religion but because of modernism and education. If your people are still practicing some pagan rituals and traditions on a large scale I think that says something about the education of Albanians.
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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 2, 2009 23:18:58 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I will shutup now because I said I am not responding to anything Albanian. I almost forgot.
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Post by leandros nikon on Mar 2, 2009 23:38:04 GMT -5
And another one from Naousa...see the kids participating...
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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 2, 2009 23:54:01 GMT -5
Surely this gathering must have been learnt by the Greeks from the culturally rich Turks and Albanians.
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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 3, 2009 0:08:19 GMT -5
Leandros,
Why are those Pontians wearing the Foustanella? Did they adopt it from the Albanians after the population exchange in 1923?
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Post by Alb_Korcar on Mar 3, 2009 0:20:50 GMT -5
some of u are pathetic n00blets...and i bet most of u are in ur 30's or up...how sad Lol. i managed to get some nationalist grouops on myspace and facebook deleted (well i got other peopel to complain for me) and then they create new ones all the time... the only reasonabel Greek in this forum is Kastorianos... and I think hes half Albanian... ;D so enough of ur bs Suli ur a hypocrite
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 3:09:25 GMT -5
Leandros here we go...those are original costumes of this dance (not fustanella) turkish Georgians (lazs) opaa
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 3:16:00 GMT -5
.........
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 3:26:49 GMT -5
Cham Dance (albanian dance) tsamiko dance (greeks who adobted from chams)
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 4:22:19 GMT -5
On 15 May 1824, an obituary notice in The Times declared that 'the whole of Lord Byron's latter days' had been given to 'the noblest of enterprises, the deliverance of Greece'. This was a warmer view of the deceased and teh cause he served than was customary with the British press, including The Times itself, by 1824. It became generally believed, nevertheless, that the poet had died, if not exactly a hero, at least a man of action and, in the following years, the most popular portrait of Byron was undoubtedly the one painted by Thomas Phillips, which shows him in Albanian garb and which today hangs in the British embassy in Athens.
Anglo-Ottoman Encounters in the Age of Revolution by Allan Cunnigham & Edward Ingram, page 255.Delacroix's fascination with the near east in the 1820's in part as a result of his interest in the Greek War for Independance, accounts for a number of studies of oriental costumes, among which the best known are perhaps his oil sketches of representing dancing Souliots. A water colour of Two Albanians, in a private collection in Athens, can now be related to this group of works. Two chieftans are shown within a landscape that recedes towards a low distant horizon. The man on the left poses in rather stiff contrapposto. His companion sits cross-legged, oriental style. The standing man wears a white kilt, and embroiderd vest and sash typical of Albanian dress. Of Suliots, Arnauts, Albanians and Eugene Delacroix by Nina Athanassoglou-Kallmyer. link www.jstor.org/pss/881312
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 4:26:59 GMT -5
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 4:35:03 GMT -5
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 4:39:06 GMT -5
The Celebrated Albanian Kilt; Fustanella e Fameshme e Shqipetarit Date posted: Thursday, August 5, 2004 The famous Albanian kilt (or fustanella as it is known in the Albanian language) was common dress for men in the 13th century where it was regularly worn by a tribe of the Dalmatians, one of the Illyrian progenitors of the Albanians. At that time, the kilt was called "Dalmatica", however, theories exist that the kilt really had its origin during much earlier times as a long shirt called "linja" which, when gathered at the waist by a sash, gave the appearance of a knee- or calf-length kilt. Depending on the social status of the wearer, materials used in fabricating the fustanella (thereby defining the number of pleats) ranged fromcoarse linen or woolen cloth for villagers to luxurious silks for the more affluent. Although the kilt was once worn by men throughout Albania, today it is seen only on special occasions in southern Albania, especially in the Gjirokaster area, and in the Albanian regions of Montenegro, Kosova, Serbia, Macedonia, and Greece. The Hungarian sociologist, Baron Nopcsa, believed that the Albanian, or Illyrian, kilt became the original pattern for the Roman military dress, and, because of its similarity to the Celtic kilt, he also theorized that the Roman legions in Britain, through the presence of its Illyrian element, probably started the fashion among the Celts (it may also be interesting to note that the Celtic word for "Scotland" is "Alban" Lord Byron, in Childe Harold's Pilgrimage, observed the "...Albanian kirtled to the knee", and T.S. Finlay in his Travels through Greece and Albania states, unequivocally, that "It was the fame of the Albanians which induced the modern Greeks to adopt the Albanian kilt as their national costume." See "The Albanians and Their Territories," Pages 164-166, "8 Nentori " Publishing House, Tirana, 1985, and Faik Konitza's "Albania: Rock Garden of Southeastern Europe ," Pages 81-90 From at least the 14th century, a strong cotton cloth called "fustan" was produced - hence the name of the garment "fustan" and later the diminutive "fustanella." But archeological evidence points to the fustanella as being a more ancient form of clothing. Among the more important (archeological) finds are 1. a small ceramic statue from the 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Durres which depicts a man wearing a long fustanella fastened with two bands across the chest; 2. a gravestone from the 3rd to 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Smokthine, near Vlora, which shows a man dressed in a fustanella; and 3. a much more ancient figurine found in Maribor, Slovenia, which dates from the 5th century B.C.E. (BC) which also shows a fustanella worn with the two bands across the chest.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 3, 2009 4:53:13 GMT -5
1. a small ceramic statue from the 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Durres which depicts a man wearing a long fustanella fastened with two bands across the chest; 2. a gravestone from the 3rd to 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Smokthine, near Vlora, which shows a man dressed in a fustanella; and 3. a much more ancient figurine found in Maribor, Slovenia, which dates from the 5th century B.C.E. (BC) which also shows a fustanella worn with the two bands across the chest. [/b][/quote] The 'foustanella' is nothing but the descendant of the ancient 'Chlamys' and 'Tonga' and the later Byzantine "tunica" that wasn't much of a change to the ancient forms.. Proof of the existance since ancient times is the find in Durres (ancient Hellinic colony of Epidamnos founded 650BC) .
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 3, 2009 4:59:34 GMT -5
Arxileas read posts above how all european travels (before Indepedence of Greece) mentioned big influence of albanians around greece or do you want to post more article or what?
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 3, 2009 5:02:49 GMT -5
so what...a foreigner can come now to athens a see a lot of pakis....whats your point ?
Its one thing to say they were present at the time....and definitaly another to say that albos had an influence.
The only influence i can honestly see is being the henchmen for the ottomans...thats about it.
speaking of " albanian " can you post a source explicity siting that name in pre-independence time..
thanks
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