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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 24, 2009 6:30:25 GMT -5
^^^^
I am trying to be polite by not calling him a noob but I know what your saying Annittas. I am sure if we looked at the Nigerian language we could find some cognates and similar things with the Greek language. It means nothing to me, however I am not a linguist and don't try to tackle these types of issues. They are interesting nevertheless.
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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 24, 2009 6:31:05 GMT -5
I like to think of this forum sometimes as reading the tabloids.
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Post by libofshe on Mar 24, 2009 7:19:51 GMT -5
monsterofsouli....have you made it your life's mission to play down or discredit any apparent link between albanian and greek?
why do you get so incensed when people try to dissect lingustics by tracing back origins of words and pointing out glaringly obvious connections?
what is it that bothers you honestly? is it so inconceivable that having lived side by side for so many centuries words could be traded? or is it that you have got it into your head that we are turkoalvanoi and that we came to reside at present dwellings in the 11'th centuary...or as Karta would have you believe, in the 17'th centuary?
what, in your scholarly opinion, does not convince you?
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 24, 2009 7:23:02 GMT -5
ÖõóéêÜ ìéëÜù åëëçíéêÜ. Åßìáé êáëÞ ìå ôéò ãëþóóåò. You have effeminated the word “Καλός” Only a female speaking can say ... “Καλή”
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 24, 2009 11:11:10 GMT -5
Pronounce the y as in hyp in both (both the Albanian te hypesh and Greek hyper are pronounced much the same).
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 24, 2009 11:43:26 GMT -5
^^^^ I am trying to be polite by not calling him a noob but I know what your saying Annittas. I am sure if we looked at the Nigerian language we could find some cognates and similar things with the Greek language. It means nothing to me, however I am not a linguist and don't try to tackle these types of issues. They are interesting nevertheless. All he's trying to say is that we've been living close to each other for thousands of years, who knows, it might have been the same language back then and then divided into Albanian and Greek. We're more similar than we think of and I know that some people hate that fact but I believe in it.
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Post by Alb_Korcar on Mar 24, 2009 15:43:18 GMT -5
Pronounce the y as in hyp in both (both the Albanian te hypesh and Greek hypper are pronounced much the same). wrong. those words are pronounced completely different. you can barely write in Albanian now you're an expert in Greek? stick to English.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 24, 2009 15:43:27 GMT -5
Or the very first word in th Iliad, menin, meaning fury or anger, akin to the Albanian word meri ( meni in some dialects) meaning almost the same, to be angry, to hold grudge, resentment. It would be cool if you could write down the words and present them here. PS Do we even know how these words were pronounced so far back? Like the letter 'y' -- is it pronounced like Albanian 'y' or like 'i', just like in modern Greek? Melty doesn't know what he's talking about. When posting in Romanian, he thought the word "oricum' was from some Greek word; or maybe form some locality that had a similar name. I tried to explain to him that the word is composed by the words of "ori" and cum (from Latin quomo; pronounced: coom), but the guy wouldn't listen. He's a n00b. Don't listen to his BS. Lol, Oricum, i said, was the Latin transliteration of the Greek neuter nom/acc -on (Hence Symposion: Symposium). Oricum was originally, thus, Orikon. I come from close to that area and said it as a joke.
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Post by leandros nikon on Mar 24, 2009 15:43:52 GMT -5
in the shadow of Greece...
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
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Post by donnie on Mar 24, 2009 16:14:05 GMT -5
in the shadow of Greece... Hard not to with that obese, fat ass of yours.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 24, 2009 20:41:30 GMT -5
I thought I did make it clear, monster, that the similarities between Albanian and Homeric Greek are not all that amazing considering the larger overall Indo-European issue. It points to zone of close origin (meaning where Albanian, Latin, Greek, Hittite and Armenian formed, they were not too far apart from one another). Nevertheless, its still not all that spectacular. I can give you some more vocab links Dijedon, but I dont know their relation to modern Greek since I might as well hear Arabic or some other language when I hear that. Pronounciation wise, my professors all pronounce hypsilon just as hupsilon(with a u). I dont know whether they are wrong or not (although even Greek Greeks reciting it I have heard it as thus at conferences).
These are not particularly unique nor any major wonder.
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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 24, 2009 21:17:01 GMT -5
monsterofsouli....have you made it your life's mission to play down or discredit any apparent link between albanian and greek? why do you get so incensed when people try to dissect lingustics by tracing back origins of words and pointing out glaringly obvious connections? what is it that bothers you honestly? is it so inconceivable that having lived side by side for so many centuries words could be traded? or is it that you have got it into your head that we are turkoalvanoi and that we came to reside at present dwellings in the 11'th centuary...or as Karta would have you believe, in the 17'th centuary? what, in your scholarly opinion, does not convince you? My Giagia has purple ass hairs. Is your life any different now that you have that detail? Look Libo I have no problem here. I simply put the thread here because of my initial shock of someone saying that Omiros writings were translated with Albanian. I could not believe how far the Albanian guy would go to lie and try to prove a connection with ancient Greek and Albanian. OMIROS NEVER HAD ANY WRITINGS. HE IS A MYTHICAL BEING. HIS STORIES WERE CARRIED ON THROUGH ORAL TRADITION. DO YOU KNOW WHEN THEY BEGAN WRITING OMIROS STORIES IN FRENCH, ENGLISH, ITALIAN? Libo, its no secret that the Greeks and Albanians have many similarities. We have lived with each other for a very long time, your right.
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Post by monsterofsouli on Mar 24, 2009 21:17:59 GMT -5
At least it is not a fact that Omiros ever existed at all.
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Post by libofshe on Mar 25, 2009 3:35:50 GMT -5
there are outrageous claims from either side, some are downright dumb, i mean seriously Georgos Kastriotis?
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Post by Niklianos on Mar 27, 2009 11:55:40 GMT -5
I thought I did make it clear, monster, that the similarities between Albanian and Homeric Greek are not all that amazing considering the larger overall Indo-European issue. It points to zone of close origin (meaning where Albanian, Latin, Greek, Hittite and Armenian formed, they were not too far apart from one another). Nevertheless, its still not all that spectacular. I can give you some more vocab links Dijedon, but I dont know their relation to modern Greek since I might as well hear Arabic or some other language when I hear that. Pronounciation wise, my professors all pronounce hypsilon just as hupsilon(with a u). I dont know whether they are wrong or not (although even Greek Greeks reciting it I have heard it as thus at conferences). These are not particularly unique nor any major wonder. Actually the 'u' pronunciation is incorrect and was started by Erasmus(Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus). He took the Greek words in Latin and applied the Latin pronunciation to them. This became the norm for the next 500+ years. He did this because he believed that the Byzantine Greeks were pronouncing Hellenistic and Attic Greek incorrectly. Well it is accepted today that his ideas were incorrect and the teaching of Ancient Greek is being taught the way the Byzantine Greeks pronounced the letters. Of course there are some hold-outs who can't admit it but if you think logically about it how could you base the pronunciation of Ancient Greek on the Latin pronunciations? It's like taking Greek derived words in the English language and saying that is how the Greek should be pronounced. Ex. Airplane - vs - aeroplano(ah-eh-roh-plah-noh) Or the simple word 'auto' - vs - 'afto(ah-fto). Just to give to simple ones.
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Post by Niklianos on Mar 27, 2009 11:57:18 GMT -5
Oh and Donnie,
All ancient Greek cognates still exist in modern Greek, it's just that many of them are not commonly used. All Ancient Greek words still exist in the modern language as well. Lack of use does not mean they do not exist.
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 28, 2009 3:44:45 GMT -5
Im using a revised version of Smyth's Greek Grammar book, which is considered pretty much a standard. For Upsilon, he has listed the sound as French: tu or sur.
The other book I used was Athenaze: An Introduction to Ancient Greek, which is more modern and it says, for upsilon:
u (short upsilon) as in the French sound tu: u (picture this with long accent since I cant replicate it) (long upsilon), as the French sound tu but held longer.
And as for the surviving modern cognates... would you know if there is any katharevousa influence to that or not?
Looking into Margaret Alexiou's (George Seferis Professor of Modern Greek Studies and Professor Emerita of Comparative Literature at Harvard University, Ive used her recently for a paper I did on ancient ritual lament ) Greek After Antiquity, she says on page 21 (in a review of the changes to the language):
On the phonological level, the 'narrowing-raising-fronting' of the vowel system, which resulted in the vowel shift from a to e (add long mark) in some ancient dialects was operative in determining further sound shifts ai to e, long e to i, oi to ü, ü to i. These changes (except the last) can be documented from the beginning of out era...
This schema of pronouncing it as a close-rounded vowel is universal today... so its not really the matter of a few hold outs is it?
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Post by meltdown711 on Mar 28, 2009 17:06:34 GMT -5
I also have noticed something interesting. In Classical Attic and as far as Homeric, the term ponos means job, labor, work, connected with ponein (to do, make, from which the term poet comes from). In Albanian this term (noun pune, verb te punosh) means work, job. In modern Greek, and in the English, the word now means pain. I always assumed paskein (to suffer, experience) would have become such a term... In both my Lindell & Scott and my Homeric Lexicon, poneomai and ponos mean to work, but in the www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon, which I click on the ancient form, it only gives me to ergon, which is not necessarily work but more like "thing to be done".
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 29, 2009 7:42:36 GMT -5
in the shadow of Greece... + 1
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donnie
Senior Moderator
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Post by donnie on Mar 29, 2009 9:03:50 GMT -5
Oh and Donnie, All ancient Greek cognates still exist in modern Greek, it's just that many of them are not commonly used. All Ancient Greek words still exist in the modern language as well. Lack of use does not mean they do not exist. Define "not commonlyused"? As in "recently introduced" and therefore rarely used ... you can always reintroduce old terms, especially if you want to avoid unnecessary foreign loan words.
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