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Post by Kassandros on Apr 8, 2009 3:51:01 GMT -5
albquitman, somehow we have to separate the 2 types of Albanians. There are clearly 2 types and its easy to be seen in these forums too. For example, a Ghejk living in a mountain, uneducated with rough character, with the canoon custom still in action, with deep Muslim religion in his heart and with an internal hate for Christians..... must somehow be differentiate by a Cham, with smooth character, leaving by the sea, with continous interaction with "civilization", most propably a indiferent Christian, more discussable and no internal hate for Greeks. These are 2 types and we cannot say just Albanian in both cases. Different people with different attitudes. See for youself in these forums; some just bark... and some just use arguments and discuss without barriers in their minds even if they disagree... and the funny thing is that usually both belong in these 2 types. It would be very unfair to describe both people in one word. Unfair for the civilized ones.... and unfair for the word "Albanian" in general. I dont believe you would love people to have the stereotype of "Albanian" based... on the first type..? Somehow, that differentiation with Albanians-Turkalbanians help you in the long-term.... and most propably it upgrades the word "Albanian" in a better level. Take it this way... PS. even Chams who hate us... have better level and more class from the first type.. Easy to notice that. PS2. Look at yourself...or Julian (where is this guy?!) Wouldnt be unfair to associate you with the first type? To see you as one? I dont believe you deserve this. "On the other hand you know nothing about Albania in Hoxha's time and the his propaganda. There was propaganda of course, but not related in anyway with Greece and it's history. He didn't care much about you guys...he had a thing about the superpowers, and all his propaganda was directed in their direction, not in little guys' direction like Greece was and still is...oh, by the way, he even wrote a book to make you guys happy...probably he knew that you were crying like little babies" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- What I know for Albania... comes from many many Albanians working in Greece. There were some really full of hate... there were some extremely friendly felt like they were "home".... and all of them agree on the same story: "Hotza made 1 hole every 2 meters to fight with the Greeks who were ready to invade any given moment". That is what they were telling me... and even themselves they were laughing after they understood that we knew nothing about that story and we were thinking only how to go to beach bars... They all said how stupid they were when they first came in Greece and they were believing that Greeks will attack them on the streets since we were... "the eternal enemies"! How would I speak about that if Albanians themselves never told me about that ?
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Post by leshte on Apr 8, 2009 11:49:54 GMT -5
Basil you yourself know that what you attempted is not even an argument. For example look at you vs. Arxileas, Karta or Mouthsore. We have you, the greek who can a have a quiet discussion and tries to bring arguments on an issue. Then we have Karta, Arxileas and Mouthsore with a deep internal hate for Albanians who bring nothing but insults and propaganda to an argument. So according to your logic we have 2 types of greeks. Regular Greeks and the negative ones, for the sake of the argument I will call them TurkoGreeks (don't mean to offend the Turks here).
P.S Like Albqueitman stated this term, TurkoAlbanian, is a greek invention of older times that you greeks now are into the bad habbit of not wanting to let go. I am a mixture of all of what you say above. I have muslim family in the north, catholic family in the north, muslim and orthodox family in the south. These religious wars or disputes are only in the heads of Greeks. I lived there for 18 years never witnessed what you state. I think it would do a lot of of good if you guys to come and visit sometimes. Words here seem to not have much weight.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 8, 2009 15:44:58 GMT -5
You cannot say that me and the other guys form 2 different types of people. Different charachters yes... but different types with different base.. no. Is too much.... Also, I dont believe that Archileas or Karta hate ordinary Albanians. They hate the fanatic ones (the Turkalbanians as we call them)... and I hate too the fanatic Fyromians. Hate produce hate. You know that. What is weird.. in the case of first type is that they hate Greeks.... as a race... regardless if the Greeks are fanatics or not. So its a tottaly different case and that has deep roots in the reasons I mentioned before.
Also, I noticed also that Albanians believe that "Turkalbanian" term has to do with religion... or that we are fanatic ones with Muslims. Who told you that??! Arabs are Muslims. Greek love Arabs. Palestinians are Muslims. Greeks love Palestinians. If religion was our problem how that could happen? ..or do you believe that any of us hangs around churches all time long? 99% of Greeks go to church every Eastern. I doubt you can call that 99% as Christian fanatics who hate all Muslims. That equation does not work...
The term "Turkalbanian" is hatefull not because of religion only... is of the general attitude and way of thinking. For example, the lack of bravery to resist to Ottoman occupiers counts more.. (becoming Muslim is the outcome.. not the reason)... the love for former occupiers of Balkans counts more.... the anti-European attitude and love for an Asiatic aggressive coutnry counts more.... Believe me.. the Muslim religion as a religon alone is not the problem for Greeks. Is the whole attitude that... usually... people of Muslim religion of this specific country show.. Also, the former commounist freaks have the same weight.. even if they are not Muslims. Also... the ones who act like jackals in Balkans now and before (lets grap now that we have the strong friends) counts even more than being just a simple Muslim.
So... dont believe that Turkalbanians has to do with religion. It has to do more with unethical attitude that usually Turks have showed throught out their history.
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Post by leshte on Apr 8, 2009 16:09:36 GMT -5
Ehhh, even the conversion to another religion is a weak argument. If that was the case then everyone is a coward or else all of us would still be brave enough to be pagans to this day.
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Post by libofshe on Apr 8, 2009 18:45:18 GMT -5
i started to tune out when basil attempted to impart knowledge on us...the stray and lost sheep, guide thy herd to enlightenment o chosen one
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Post by albquietman on Apr 8, 2009 19:53:24 GMT -5
What I know for Albania... comes from many many Albanians working in Greece. There were some really full of hate... there were some extremely friendly felt like they were "home".... and all of them agree on the same story: "Hotza made 1 hole every 2 meters to fight with the Greeks who were ready to invade any given moment". That is what they were telling me... and even themselves they were laughing after they understood that we knew nothing about that story and we were thinking only how to go to beach bars... They all said how stupid they were when they first came in Greece and they were believing that Greeks will attack them on the streets since we were... "the eternal enemies"! How would I speak about that if Albanians themselves never told me about that ? Basil, I'm afraid that your source of info about Albania is not qualified as a source in the first place, because doesn't fulfill the requirements. Why? Well, you should know something. The population of the immigrants in a country tends to be the most ignorant part of the country that they left. I was imigrant myself there in Greece and I am still here in USA, and you might put me in the group of ignorants ...well, may be I'm part of it, but at least I know that Hoxha didn't build bunkers and holes only in the Greek-Albanian border, but everywhere in Albania. It was some kind of paranoia that he was suffering at that time. That's what your albanian friends in Greece don't know, because probably they never moved out of their villages and probably thought that the Earth was flat and a little bit bigger than their village...so my advice is to ask someone who knows, or watch more TV like my cat does : I think she needs glasses .
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 9, 2009 14:43:43 GMT -5
about the quality of the ones that I was talking... maybe its true albquietman.. they were indeed villagers that they have never mooved out of their villages until they came in Greece. ..but bunkers and holes is a reality and that is how it was perceived by simple people as the peasants I was talking about. They really were manipulated and they really expected an attack from the "bad" Greeks... Ok.. they didnt know to ellaborate much on it.. but that was the case. leshte "If that was the case then everyone is a coward or else all of us would still be brave enough to be pagans to this day." -------------------------------------------------------- the difference is that Christianity was not imposed on us with fear. We accepted it (I still wonder if the 12 Gods were better for Greece..? without threads.. libofshe "i started to tune out when basil attempted to impart knowledge on us...the stray and lost sheep, guide thy herd to enlightenment o chosen one" ----------------------------------------------------------------- I wouldnt dare to do that on you liboshe. Afterall, you have a brilliant mind that absorbs the real knowledge from NY Times and Washington post..
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Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 9, 2009 18:24:17 GMT -5
about the quality of the ones that I was talking... maybe its true albquietman.. they were indeed villagers that they have never mooved out of their villages until they came in Greece. ..but bunkers and holes is a reality and that is how it was perceived by simple people as the peasants I was talking about. They really were manipulated and they really expected an attack from the "bad" Greeks... Ok.. they didnt know to ellaborate much on it.. but that was the case. leshte "If that was the case then everyone is a coward or else all of us would still be brave enough to be pagans to this day." -------------------------------------------------------- the difference is that Christianity was not imposed on us with fear. We accepted it (I still wonder if the 12 Gods were better for Greece..? without threads.. libofshe "i started to tune out when basil attempted to impart knowledge on us...the stray and lost sheep, guide thy herd to enlightenment o chosen one" ----------------------------------------------------------------- I wouldnt dare to do that on you liboshe. Afterall, you have a brilliant mind that absorbs the real knowledge from NY Times and Washington post.. again with the anti-American propaganda i dont even think dude lives in the US to have access to those newspaeprs...and Lol @ Ghejk, Tosks live in mountains too Albania is a country of mountains even Korca (famous Morava Mnts.)......ironcially northern Greece is kinda mountanous too ;D
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 10, 2009 15:11:54 GMT -5
Korcabre "again with the anti-American propaganda i dont even think dude lives in the US to have access to those newspaeprs.." ---------------------------------------------------------------- When Americans want to push an idea they use all the methods. Movies and Hollywood too... Do you want me to remind you that ALL the bad guys in the action movies 20 years ago were always Commounists Russians or from Eastern Europe.... and the last 5 years are Arabs or "bad" Serbs etc? (Last 1-2 years I see many Albanian "bads" too.. ) Am I anti-American because I dont let my brain accept it..?! "GhejkTosks live in mountains too Albania is a country of mountains even Korca (famous Morava Mnts.)......ironcially northern Greece is kinda mountanous too" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All Greece is kinda mountaneous too... but Macedonia, Thessaly and Thrace have big open valeys. Also.... the sea plays important role in civilizzation throught out years in all the countries of the world. The ones leaving by the sea were always more "civilized" from the ones leaving on the mountains.
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