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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 4, 2007 15:09:02 GMT -5
Pa bese is "without honor", a person who lacks "Besa" lacks honor. Although yes, because faith, honor and vows are intertwined in Albanian culture. These play the principal role in Sami Frasheri's play "Pledge of Honor". This is what saved the Jews who came into Albania. When an Albanian gives a "besa" he is invoking something that is the most important aspect to the "Classical" Albanian: honor. Honor is the main component of his life and if he should lose it, the only honorable thing is to kill himself since a man without honor is a man who lacks meaning in life.
The english translation of "zere"(non-literal) would be something like "invoke". A literal translation is "dont take up/invoke a besa for him". Once again heading to the original meaning.
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Post by tripwire on Nov 4, 2007 20:15:47 GMT -5
"Dead right, I am not and will not, I wasn't born up the mountains nor in a low society."
You're one of those lost souls, blood to Arkan, along with his mark on your head.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Nov 4, 2007 22:55:13 GMT -5
Sir Suart, I didn't write it to "give anything back"! It is of my opinion that in some points that article coctradicts itself...but whoever reads it, must read it twice...
As for Besa issue... in civilized societies there is the law and court which helps and maintains the order...in feuds are the "unwritten laws"...
As long as a society lives surrounded by mountains and isolated, would have as common the "unwritten laws"....and in the cities it would be the Court....as for people who do not have it, it depends on the person and not in the entire nation....and as for the Court, you must know very well that a society in transition has its own troubles...at least Albanians kill themselves and don't go around killing and masacring through genocide minorities in the 21st century...!!!
and something for your kind: "po e konsiderove veten krimb mos u çudit kur te te shkelin me kembe"
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 4, 2007 23:26:11 GMT -5
Tamam.
Mire e the Teuta.
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Post by suart on Nov 5, 2007 10:36:11 GMT -5
Did I consider myself as one of that kind? Nope! Usually krimbat hane njeri tjetrin, deri tani po e shohim se kush jane keta krimba dhe se cilit lloj i perkasin. Upps Do not blame the blood feud, but your kind of krimba.
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 5, 2007 11:12:13 GMT -5
Suart, you are the epitome of what could have went wrong with Albania had we retained that pathetic Ottoman mentality. You are a little Islamic bug/pest that the new Albanian order and path will crush in the next 30-40 years, as we further unite with Europe.
Im often skeptical about the EU, but when I see just how it will destroy the leftover Ottoman bugs in the country, it makes me quiver with glee.
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Post by suart on Nov 5, 2007 13:25:59 GMT -5
Melyt, before you talk about the history of the past, do yourself a favour; use some of that glee to wash your mouth. It might help you to catch up in speaking & writing albanian.What has got to do in this topic, the Ottoman Empire? ? As every retard who lags in history and european values, a prototype like you hints on the turks. When we live and know for fact, that all the countries created by and during the Ottoman time are far foward from us. from Teuta: As long as a society lives surrounded by mountains and isolated, would have as common the "unwritten laws"....and in the cities it would be the Courtnext time before you two write smth...; think! All the balkans has mountains, even the name itself has its meaning. No wounder with people like you the epidemy still goes on. Ah poor Melyt, Islamic bug? ? Do you think besa + blood feud will be crushed for the next 30-40 years? I dunno if any Chatholic will be left till then, cos the blood feud amongst them is too high. Go and teach them some human values, Melo. Islamic bug has nothing to do in connection with my criticism towards the albanian old fashion. No wounder, an albanian internal conflict is inevitable in the near future and, Greece, Serbia plus the rest of the balkans should prepare for albanian war torn refugees. Whom religious groups will leave? God knows.
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 5, 2007 13:29:51 GMT -5
Lol. Thats very realistic. Dont worry, little Haxhi Qemali, Albania will do just fine. Whoever speaks of an internal conflict in Albanian society simply doesnt know the Albanian people enough. What would this "stuggle" entail?
Because Islamic bugs like you held the Albanian people back. Because of Islamic bugs like you Albanian society throughout the Ottoman era could never become cohesive enough to form a united front. Thankfully your death was secured when the Albanian state was formed; and even more so after Enver.
Im just hoping that next time you head to Shkoder, you incidentally hit somebody while walking... just enough so that guy can rush for his gun...
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Post by suart on Nov 5, 2007 13:40:15 GMT -5
What do you call this: who wrote this? Do you think surpressing the human values you will integrate into Erope? On the other hand I never mentioned any islamic beliefs in this topic. People like you can not accept that Islam has already its roots in Albania, you just can not accept whom you are and what Albania has. Where will your path is gonna take you, is an internal conflict. Do you ever think if the mosle majority says the same against you? Where does it take the entire population? Melyt, as a grown kid you already left our country, just study and look into your future how to serve America, that large and prosperous country. Who's left in Albania, knows well what to do. But, for sure people like your transport only conflict and hatres amidst us but nothing else. Where did you want to go? Up the mountains, living with the wolves? Like the catholic majority done? Why are you not going foward now on?. The Ottomans have a century since they left. Kid, wake up. Have you joined a witchcraft now Tell us more
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 5, 2007 13:46:14 GMT -5
There is a difference between you and an Alb who is a Muslim. The latter are a part of Albania, and always have been and will be so long as they wish to be. Your kinds death started when Albania was formed.
Truth be told, I doubt Islam has much of a future in Albania, in the long run. Not because of force, but because in the next century Albs themselves will move out of it just like they moved into it.
I've said it before, and Ill say it again, if tomorrow the EU promises to let Albania in the EU and Albs will start to receive EU grants but on the condition that Albs convert out of Islam, you would see masses of Albs running for churches. I mean, look at how things go. How many Albs, from the Republic, go to Italy and become Catholics? What have men like Ismail Kadare, or Kastriot Myftari proposed?
I dont agree with it, but I am willing to admit reality.
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Post by suart on Nov 5, 2007 13:55:19 GMT -5
Whoever left and leaves Albania is never gonna be albanian. Above all whom is born out of Albania is not albanian. They belong to the country they are working for. Ismail Kadare.....? Why this big guy with little ideas is not comming to live back in Albania? Is he waitting for the New Messiha? Who is Kac Myftaraj??? Does he own any post in the alb government? If he is your idol I have too many rubbish that he writes, I can post them to you. But Answer me, who is he? Does anybody listen to him? Did the albanians do what Kadare proposed to them 17 years ago?
Why the albanians are still not converting to join the EU, if the EU policy says so. Or is this your idea, that the EU should say so. Is the EU going to listen to you, I Kadare and Kac Mutfaraj?
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 5, 2007 14:01:34 GMT -5
That was hypothetical you idiot, its meant to show just how "attached" Albs are to that Ottoman identity. Albs are more then willing to throw it all away if it means money in their pockets. For kripes sake, people even speak of Ibrahim Rugova converting. Do you think he ever gave a chit about Catholicism? No way, if it gave hints to it, it was to buy honors with the west. This is the Alb mentality: opportunistic.
How widespread are his books in Albania? Every shop I went to carried all of them. This guy is considered to be a pride of the country. Every time people mention him its with good words. Why he doesnt come back? His books are selling out, and he can have a good life for himself in France, away from the greedy hands of the Albanian bureaucracy, who are ready to attack anyone with any wealth.
Btw, whats an entire square and airport in Tirana called? Take a guess?
The only people who dont like Kadare are the bugs like you, the "Islamic bugs", whose culture is so entirely deviated from Albania. Your practically an Arab, raca me e qelbur ne bote.
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Post by suart on Nov 5, 2007 15:01:09 GMT -5
The Idiot is the one whom connect a faith to one nation, as if christianity was born in Europe. Do they preach Christianity? Or fictions? . Pride cos served to the dictatore and was his parrot. Pride for people with lack in history, people that have no honour. It's like the make up on the face of a prostitute, from inside is different and outside appears to act on the opposite way. You remind me Mimoza llastica Ask you parents whom I'm talking about, cos if you are 20 years old I don't think you've seen it on TV.
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 5, 2007 15:10:49 GMT -5
Christianity, aswell as Islam, was born and bred in the mind of man. In his mythological and fictional part of course.
Neither, they tell good stories.
Dont have to know her, I have plenty of those little girls in my family. Its the family fault really, people should spoil their children. More stern discipline would help I always say, thats why my careful with my complements.
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Post by Arxileas on Nov 5, 2007 19:11:33 GMT -5
Truly bullocks this topic is...For the sake of excusing them selfs. Do we excuse Germany if a handful of them Germans helped a few Jews escape ?
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 5, 2007 19:15:00 GMT -5
We have nothing to excuse ourselves from. We are just showing the honorable virtues that many of our neighbors lack.
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Post by Arxileas on Nov 5, 2007 19:37:18 GMT -5
You are right on the mark here, neighbors who lack true identity have to create one.
Georgos Kastriotis a Half Greek and a Half Serb suddenly become an Albanian....I can keep going......
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 5, 2007 20:21:47 GMT -5
Its the otherway around. Our neighbors try and deny ours purely out of hating us.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Nov 5, 2007 23:59:18 GMT -5
"Did I consider myself as one of that kind? Nope!
I like the criticism tone (especially yours which sometimes is well presented with articles) but when it becomes tendencious I tend to believe you dislike your kind (this is available ONLY if you are Albanian)
Usually krimbat hane njeri tjetrin, deri tani po e shohim se kush jane keta krimba dhe se cilit lloj i perkasin.
Per ate pune...njerezit hane njeri-tjetrin!
Upps Do not blame the blood feud, but your kind of krimba."
I know very well who to blame! Thank you for your suggestion.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Nov 6, 2007 0:06:17 GMT -5
From Stuart: "Where did you want to go? Up the mountains, living with the wolves? Like the catholic majority done?" "next time before you two write smth...; think! All the balkans has mountains, even the name itself has its meaning".
Exactly what you mean with "living with wolves"....only that my post had another word which you failed to read: ISOLATED...which takes off the connotation of mountains as a Geographic notion only...perhaps you weren't able to understand or missunderstood....
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