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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jan 18, 2008 14:32:15 GMT -5
Did you know that Albanians lead by Bajram Curri after taking over Shkup and Selanik, marched to istanbull, but the great powers said that they will give Albanians what they wanted so they returned.
I think they mention that in these videos...
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 18, 2008 14:39:52 GMT -5
will retype this!
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 18, 2008 15:31:35 GMT -5
So who marched the Albanians or the Young Turks.... ?
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 18, 2008 15:33:21 GMT -5
Albanians, about 6,000 to be precise. The first march that occurred forced the Sultan to restore the CUP(Congress of Unity and Progress). But Albanians were manipulated continuously. The CUP promised more rights and freedoms, in reality it sent over 100,000 soldiers to Albania to destroy every ounce of freedom. From there on relations got worse and various other marches occurred up to 1912.
This was the final one before the Balkan war. It forced the Sultan to recognize Albania, but it was too late, the Balkan wars erupted at that point.
Albanians then actually came close to taking Selanik, but the Sultan gave in by then. The Sultan stopped them there and gave them the rights we asked. The various balkan entities saw just how the Ottoman Empire was at that point that 6,000 Albanian tribesmen were able to take so much land so fast.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Jan 18, 2008 17:13:20 GMT -5
It was a catastrophy as far as we Albanians were concerned. Years of engagement with the Ottomans left the country ravaged. Furthermore, Ottoman retaliations included the disarming of the population. This occured also after the uprisings in 1910 and 1911 in Kosova and the Highlands respectively. Conveniently, the Balkan Alliance declared war on Istanbul during fall 1912, when the Albanians were in a crucial position, having rised that very summer. We stood no chance. Nevertheless, fierce resistance was offered. Even Serbian witnesses and correspondents wrote about the difficulties the Serbian Armies faced in their march through Albania.
Toskali, I do not know if you've read Thoma Murzaku's work about the First Balkan War and Serbia's role!? He mentions that the Balkan Alliance raised a combined force of over 500,000 soldiers, that Serbia alone mobilized more men than the Ottoman empire. Do you know anything about this?
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 18, 2008 17:20:43 GMT -5
The full Ottoman army was 950,000, of which 250,000 were in Rumelia. Bulgaria alone had 328,000 troops while Greece and Serbia both had 250,000.... the Ottomans didnt stand a chance, they couldnt transfer the rest of their troops into Rumelia fast enough.
The Ottomans played it stupid. They aggravated us with all those previous problems and now had to face the Alliance army... Albanians would have easily sided with the Ottoman Empire over the Balkan powers since all of them wanted to tear Albania to pieces and take the parts for themselves...
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
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Post by donnie on Jan 18, 2008 17:57:37 GMT -5
Yes of course. Better united under one occupying force than teared apart fighting several occupiers. The Albanians put up the fiercest resistance against the Serbs. Truth is the Ottomans weren't that interested in making a real effort. They saw the game as lost and wanted to evacuate their troops. The battle of Kumanovë was the only major battle between regular Ottoman troops and the Serbian Army.
Thanks for the numbers by the way. Explains alot.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jan 19, 2008 0:25:59 GMT -5
Profesor Kristo Frasheri along with another equally famous historian on top channel said that the troops of Bajram Curri united with some other troops from southern albania and in the biggest battle (i dont remember either in kosova or macedonia) they won, and they had gained shkup and selanik (there are pictures of their victory) and were at the gates of istanbull when the sultan gave up!
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 19, 2008 2:28:57 GMT -5
I dont know that Byram Curri took Selanik. The Sultan gave by then I think...
Btw, by recognizing Albania I mean that the Sultan recognized the four vilayets(Monastir, Yanya, Kosova, Uskudar) as a single entity under the name of Arnavutluk. This entity was by not to be independent, but rather autonomous within the Ottoman empire. Under Albanian demands, Albanian troops would only serve in this region and the new Arnavutluk would be governed purely Albanians. No Anatolian was to step foot in Albania. Also, Albs demanded universities in the Albanian language with the legalization of Albanian.
I think that many Alb nationalists would have pushed for full independence but many of the beys and pashas in Albania would fear a loss of status and privileges under such a new independent entity. The Beys and Pashas were Albania's biggest problem and Hoxha's liquidation of them was a blessing.
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Post by BibleRiot on Jan 22, 2008 19:10:23 GMT -5
think that many Alb nationalists would have pushed for full independence but many of the beys and pashas in Albania would fear a loss of status and privileges under such a new independent entity. The Beys and Pashas were Albania's biggest problem and Hoxha's liquidation of them was a blessing
I'm glad somebody pointed that out. If one looks at what the revolt was about, it's clear that while the demands that Alb troops serve only in Albania,and the pressure for autonomy were nationally progressive, a lot of the demands were reactionary, designed to entrench the religious and landholding privileges of the Beys who could not adapt to an empire that was Ottoman rather than Muslim.
The reason the Turks couldn't bring their full force to bear, or resupply their troops, was the dominance of the Greek navy. To the victor, the spoils. It was an artillery war, but without command of the seas, the Turks were doomed.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 22, 2008 20:08:40 GMT -5
This pretty much secured the failure of the League of Prizren.
Did the Greeks also control the Marmara area? I dont think the Ottomans would have been able to transfer the troops either way. In what state was Anatolia in at that time?
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Post by BibleRiot on Jan 22, 2008 21:04:27 GMT -5
The Greek Navy controlled the Aegean, the Turks were forced back into the Dardanelles. One key battle is described on Wikipedia. Can't vouch for the accuracy, but it gives a good feel for the sort of engagement involved. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Battle_of_Lemnos
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 23, 2008 0:20:48 GMT -5
You would think that the Dardanelles would be enough to transport all the troops. But I guess that they could have used the speed provided by a navy?
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