|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 7, 2005 4:22:51 GMT -5
Ljuboten: Macedonian and Bulgarian language ----------------------------------------------------------------- I listened to a Bulgarian speak on the Discovery channel last week, and I did not understand more than 10%. To me it sounded completely foreign. I don't appreciate when people say the Macedonian language is Bulgarian.
I know being from Tetovo, our dialect is much closer to Serbian than Bulgarian, if you're going to compare the two. Its hard for me to understand even people from Stip and even Skopje.
For those Macedonians from other part's other than Tetovo would you consider your dialect close to Bulgarian?
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 11, 2007 13:01:53 GMT -5
you might not understand em ....but they easily understand my mac neighbors
no translators needed between them ...
|
|
Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Rhezus on Oct 12, 2007 16:48:15 GMT -5
I would say compaired to macedonian, our lang. sound more evolved and modern. When I listern to macedonian it sounds very oldish, many turcisms in their speech, which are seldom used in bulgarian. Somehow, wrong grammaticaly language for me, but I can understand what they're saying.
|
|
|
Post by terroreign on Oct 13, 2007 3:48:46 GMT -5
what's the standard you use to say their language isn't "evolved and modern" compared to yours?
For me that doesn't make sense because each people's language is different in some ways, and maybe to macedonians, bulgarian doesnt sound "modern" or "evolved"
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Oct 13, 2007 5:04:47 GMT -5
Its basically the same. Fyromians are Bulgarians. I know slavophone Greeks, that say they understand the bulgarian language. Besides...the slavophone Greeks are often derisively called "Woulgaroi"-Bulgarians by Greeks...why is that?
|
|
|
Post by rusebg on Oct 16, 2007 4:24:52 GMT -5
For a change I am going to agree with Kastor. Even further, I agree with Terro as well. Strange day this one is. Rhezus, this is Bulgarian dialect. You should know that dialects are different from the official language. Following that logic of yours, can we say that people from the Rhodopes or Middle-West Bulgaria or North-West have not progressed in their speech just because you might find the way they talk sort of weird to your ears?
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Oct 18, 2007 6:56:47 GMT -5
It is well known fact that Bulgarian and Macedonian are one language. Only for political reasons was that Macedonian "language" created. Its also known fact that Macedonian means a Bulgarian, who is from the geographycal region Macedonia. We in Bulgaria have also Thracians, but everybody knows that the people arent really Thracians, but Bulgarians from the geographycal region of Trace. Same could be said of the Moesians, the Shopi etc. Also the Macedonians always though of themselves as Bulgarians up till the mid 20 century.
|
|
Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Rhezus on Oct 18, 2007 12:00:57 GMT -5
Rhezus, this is Bulgarian dialect. You should know that dialects are different from the official language. Following that logic of yours, can we say that people from the Rhodopes or Middle-West Bulgaria or North-West have not progressed in their speech just because you might find the way they talk sort of weird to your ears? But the so called dialect of Macedonia still sounds quite strange to me (I know there are different dialects around BG). The grammar and vocabulary of words they are using is no longer compatible to the one we have. Sounds oldish, wrong and with loads of turkish and serbian words. Still different from most of BG dialects. And if I would speak to them our lang. grammatically right or fast they wouldn't understand much. Same thing applies to Serbs too. Kastorianos: "Slavophone greeks" are originally same as we in Bulgaria. That's why you call them Bulgarians. Interesting you mention that, but lands of northern Greece we know them as Belomorska Trakia (Aegean Thrace) - just 80-90 years ago. And btw, you shouldn't prevent these ppl from speaking the slavonic speech around there!
|
|
|
Post by Kubrat on Oct 18, 2007 17:14:17 GMT -5
Thats because of the serbian influence on the language, the extra letters they added from their language and the few letters they took out from ours. They sounds wrong because they are wrong, the changes that were done couldn't change the fact that the language is Bulgarian, it just sounds slightly different.
|
|
|
Post by ljubotan on Oct 18, 2007 17:18:40 GMT -5
I know a couple Bulgarians here in the states and when we speak we speak English to each other. I can catch a few words when I here them speak but barely, to me it sounds very 'Russian' influenced. Mind you I've from NW Macedonia so the dialect I speak is probably more distant to Bulgarian then say someone from Eastern Macedonia. I'm not sure but maybe our languages were much more identical in the middle ages because if memory serves me right I've heard that the Bulgarian language has gone through a couple big changes in the last 500 years? For instance the word for 'shoe' we say 'kondura' where in Bulgaria that's considered a very very old and turkish word, however I've been told some Bulgarians still use it depending on their geographical location.
My observation with these bulgarians is that they have the same mentality as Macedonians. By that I mean their not arrogant people, they're very hardworking and care a great deal about their loved one's. My experience with Serbs or Serbians has for the most part (not all persons/or nation) been opposite.
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Oct 18, 2007 21:59:13 GMT -5
I know a couple Bulgarians here in the states and when we speak we speak English to each other. Thats very sad having in mind that 50 years ago u were one and the same people. I can catch a few words when I here them speak but barely, to me it sounds very 'Russian' influenced. Well it is Russian influenced because after the liberation, the basis for Bulgarian became the Eastern talk thus more Russian sounding. Mind you I've from NW Macedonia so the dialect I speak is probably more distant to Bulgarian then say someone from Eastern Macedonia. Then u probably use more Serbian words. I'm not sure but maybe our languages were much more identical in the middle ages because if memory serves me right I've heard that the Bulgarian language has gone through a couple big changes in the last 500 years? Well in the Midle Ages there were no macedonians (only Bulgarians from the region of Macedonia) so the language in Macedonia has always been Bulgarian. Kliment from Ohrid (he is born in North Bulgaria) was sent by Boris to educate the people of Ohrid in Bulgarian writing. We were one and the same people, we are still. Our common language has evolved and strangly enough a dialect has been pronounced as a separate language tnx to political reasons. For instance the word for 'shoe' we say 'kondura' where in Bulgaria that's considered a very very old and turkish word, however I've been told some Bulgarians still use it depending on their geographical location. We still use it but it sounds like prehistoric bulgarian word. U make a generalization here, but not only we have the same mentality, but we are also the same people.
|
|
Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Rhezus on Oct 19, 2007 3:46:25 GMT -5
The example for "shue" the guy gives here is actually an old Turkish word -"kundra", meaning in fact exactly what it is. But that's an old Turkish word, which even turks don not use today!!. Why macedonian ppl use so many old words, which has no slavonic connection? That makes them think our lang. sounds "more russian". ;D
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Oct 19, 2007 9:05:41 GMT -5
I dont like the ones, that want to show everyone what they are...there are many who speak in bulgarian only...although they know Greek....
|
|
|
Post by ljubotan on Oct 19, 2007 13:28:41 GMT -5
If you think about it everyone's language has been affected by some other language in the past. I can tell you the macedonian dialect I speak is the exact same that my greatgrandfather spoke in 1870, which was well before any Bulgarian or Serbian schools were established in the Tetovo district.
I do believe that many of the Slavic inhabitants of today's Kosovo and Macedonia ended up in these regions due Bulgaria's expansion in the 10th and 11th centuries, but that was a long time ago.
|
|
|
Post by amoureux24 on Oct 20, 2007 13:34:17 GMT -5
Who can teach me macedonian ..I kind of undersand words but I dont know the rules. I am bosnian by the way!
|
|
Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by Rhezus on Oct 20, 2007 17:00:45 GMT -5
Shall we then forbid the small Greek minority to speak their own language in BG?! That sounds quite backwards. If you like it or not, you should respect your minorities - othervwise you cause yourself a problem.
|
|
|
Post by superman on Oct 21, 2007 0:25:59 GMT -5
It's the same language.
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 27, 2007 9:12:46 GMT -5
Its basically the same. Fyromians are Bulgarians. I know slavophone Greeks, that say they understand the bulgarian language. Besides...the slavophone Greeks are often derisively called "Woulgaroi"-Bulgarians by Greeks...why is that? your correct ...you should of left them alone and not kicked em out ..now we have em ....
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 27, 2007 9:14:22 GMT -5
Who can teach me macedonian ..I kind of undersand words but I dont know the rules. I am bosnian by the way! 1-10 is the same days of the week are the same you would have no difficulty at all speaking Bulgarian
|
|
Japodian
Senior Moderator
Aber dojde donke
Posts: 117
|
Post by Japodian on Oct 27, 2007 11:16:06 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem is in what you consider to be a language and what you consider to be a dialect. Just look at your western south Slavic neighbors. We practically speak the same thing, we can easily understand one another, but we have four languages now (Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin). I think that every nation is to proud to accept they speak in almost the same way as their neighbors and can not accept to call their language with the name of their neighbors. German set it quite well, it is spoken in Switzerland, Germany, Luxembourg and Austria, but they lived in one state for almost 1200 years. We on the other hand lived in one state for 80 years and almost eradicated each other. What can I say, but Balkanians!
|
|