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Post by atlantis on Feb 27, 2008 21:41:20 GMT -5
^ so are you saying a lil bit of dis and a lil bit of dat ? I'm saying you are doing great >:<
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Post by atlantis on Feb 27, 2008 21:48:11 GMT -5
Yes Teuta but in the antic mithology brothers killed each other for the throne ....................so we are still ...........
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Post by atlantis on Feb 27, 2008 21:49:53 GMT -5
I mean not dead.............
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Post by Kassandros on Feb 28, 2008 2:41:27 GMT -5
ok guys... but the funny thing is... that people share facial characteristics in places where the Hellenic world was. Example: Spain,Central and South Italy,South France, Central-South and western Balkans, Black Sea, Western Turkey. People have common faces and a walk in the streets can convince you. On the other hand, No Slovenia, No Croatia, No Turkey, No Portugal, No Egypt, No Malta. How it comes and those places where there was no Hellenic presence at all.... dont look alike the previous places although they're all in the same geographic area? What I want to say is... wherever Greeks had colonies... today people are the same. Dont try to tell me that is a coincedence.. And one more thing; Why the dictators of Albania, Fyrom, Bulgaria during Communist years had brainwashed their people with the "possible" attack from Greeks.... since we all know Greece had never in mind to expand in the north? Why they drove a "hate" to a country where they had the less possibilities to attack? What made them show Greeks as a potential threat... since it was not the case and it will never be. Why they had that sudden need to charactirize Greeks... as enemies... when they had real enemies? They had the need to separate their people from their Hellenic heritage. They made them Jannisaries. That is all about. If they didnt learn to hate Greece.... that would be great danger for the new states. If they didnt learn to hate Greece.... one day they would ask to join Greece and form again the Hellenic world. Thats my theory... PS. attack... but be gently with me.. please.. Afterall... Jannisaries attacks always were hard.
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Post by julius on Feb 28, 2008 8:57:34 GMT -5
All I know is that i can easily find albanians among thousands of greeks. Maybe is our multiangeld skull, our nose...i really cant tell what it is. Also minoritar greeks in south Albania differ from albanians.
You said this above: "And one more thing; Why the dictators of Albania, Fyrom, Bulgaria during Communist years had brainwashed their people with the "possible" attack from Greeks.... since we all know Greece had never in mind to expand in the north? Why they drove a "hate" to a country where they had the less possibilities to attack?"
Actually greeks attacked Albania in the Agugust of 48'. So this is more a fair reason rather than "the brainwashed" theory. Man, comunnists are cracy people! We suspected attacks from everywhere. The defensive plan included a posible attack from both NATO and Warschaw block!
Albanians never hated greeks! Between the borders there was a strange situation. They have developed human relations through trade, school education and migration. My aunt is greek, im albanian. She moved in Salonica about 50 years ago. It was politics that infected and poisend people between them.
The same thing they are doing in these days.
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Post by Kassandros on Feb 28, 2008 10:57:24 GMT -5
"All I know is that i can easily find albanians among thousands of greeks. Maybe is our multiangeld skull, our nose...i really cant tell what it is. Also minoritar greeks in south Albania differ from albanians." --------------------------------------------------------- yes I know.. but these are Gheks... people of the very north and Greeks were not there. There is not even one chance you can differentiate a Tosk from a Greek..
"Actually greeks attacked Albania in the Agugust of 48'. So this is more a fair reason rather than "the brainwashed" theory" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- August '48? You mean the counter attack to kick Italians out... or something else? I dont know about an attack in 1948... ?
"Albanians never hated greeks" -------------------------------------------- I know... is a new phenomenon. After Sali Berisha's speeches I think..
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Post by julius on Feb 28, 2008 11:36:24 GMT -5
yes I know.. but these are Gheks... people of the very north and Greeks were not there. There is not even one chance you can differentiate a Tosk from a Greek.. -------------------------- Im tosk. The so called vorioepirotes themselves can tell the difference between them and albanian tosk (or mostly greeks wannabe).
the minoritarian face is smooth, kinda funny one, small eyes, small nose. tosks are not that harsh-faces as geghs, but there is diference. The strange thing by the way, is that ghegs have smth very common with greeks - if u want to study the similiarities between greek language and albanian, in their mountains u can find that. But, there is a gap and dificulty about finding smone who knows greek language and gheg dialect.
My theory goes like this: in the ancient history greeks and albanians came from the same branch, or were familiar. But albanians generally followed another kind of evolution rather than greeks. Between the borders the similiarities are cultural, not physical.
Any "vorioepirotis" here can confirm that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- August '48? You mean the counter attack to kick Italians out... or something else? I dont know about an attack in 1948... ? --------------------------------------
Italians in the 48 were concentrating in their country only, eating their spagheti all dente. Im talking about "the augustians greek provocations" It took place near the borders when greeks gathered their army. There were also a few confrontations in Korca mostly (southeast albania). Albanians knew what was going on, they had a spy among greeks. I remember former prime Mehmet Shehu declared "if u dont go back, my army will be drinking coffe at Janina within an hour." If u speak albanian i could refer u to a source or two. ----------------------------------------------------------------
I know... is a new phenomenon. After Sali Berisha's speeches I think..
------------------------------------------ Not exatcly. There are more than just a few reasons to mention here. It could be a nice topic though...Im thinking about that.
U see, i love the greek way of thinking, the ancient one, and this new one. ......except the complex some of them have.
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Post by atlantis on Feb 28, 2008 14:35:18 GMT -5
"All I know is that i can easily find albanians among thousands of greeks. Maybe is our multiangeld skull, our nose...i really cant tell what it is. Also minoritar greeks in south Albania differ from albanians." --------------------------------------------------------- yes I know.. but these are Gheks... people of the very north and Greeks were not there. There is not even one chance you can differentiate a Tosk from a Greek.. "Actually greeks attacked Albania in the Agugust of 48'. So this is more a fair reason rather than "the brainwashed" theory" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- August '48? You mean the counter attack to kick Italians out... or something else? I dont know about an attack in 1948... ? "Albanians never hated greeks" -------------------------------------------- I know... is a new phenomenon. After Sali Berisha's speeches I think.. > It was the end of Greek civil war; it was not a civil war but a push from west and east super powers and I’m glad Greeks ended to west otherwise could be really bad situation in Balkan. It was called august provocation 1949 and Greeks entered inside the Albanian territories killing not only mans but children and woman too. The Greek claim was fighting Greek partisan guerrillas. let say is like 1991 killing Albanians people against Communist regime in Albania escaping to Greece ,the Tirana goverment could order to bomb Athina ....creazy eeeee There are pictures showing villages of Albanian bombed by Greek government’s troops. What else The War Low kept from the Greeks till late last years. If the Albanian by the history could hate the neighbors could be much grater than now, as a territory, but unfortunately, they didn’t…..they always thought about their defense not about any attack.
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Post by Kassandros on Feb 29, 2008 14:46:11 GMT -5
"It was called august provocation 1949" ------------------------------------------------------ Guys.... why do I have the feeling that "unknown" war is an invention of... Hotza? I think we should have known something.. Even in a fake form.. but at least something. There is not even one chance that "war" was real. My best friend is from Epirus... and he was laughing. This does not exist in nowones memories... even to the locals. I think its was one more game of your Hotza to present Greeks as "bad" neighbors ready to attack.. lol lol
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Post by julius on Feb 29, 2008 15:09:30 GMT -5
Dont be too.... greek about that. My father was in the army (not at that time of course) and has told me what happened. There is NO WAY that provocations were fake. I have more than one testimonies.
And Hoxha wasnt so antigreek at all. He spoked ur language in the year of his death (1985), at a village called Grapshi. The minister of defence at that time (Kico Mustaqi) was from the greek minority.
Dont be so victimized by Hoxha bcse u dont have any valid reason to do so.
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Post by bordura on Feb 29, 2008 17:12:23 GMT -5
Basilmacedon, 1948-49 had a dynamic of armed confrontations in Greek-Albanian border. It was an overlaping of interest of greece and America toward Albania. *Greek plan was realizing one of Megalideas objectives taking vorio epir. * Americans had a plan to dismantle the new communist bloc. They master plan had as a starting point what they called the weekest comunist link Albania. CIA in this years was totaly focused on realizing this plan and had opened a training centre in Malta and Napoli (Italy) with albanians oposing communism. they were trained armed and organized in military structures. The concentration of greek communist at the end of civil war on the Gramoz montain bordering Albania was a great oportunitie to start the realization of the plan by discyising under the pretence that Greek army was following disolved greek comunist fighters in albanian territory. Communist Greeks where in disarray after havy losses. They had contacted Moscow and Moscow agreed to evacuate then and their families to the eastern block countries through Durresi Port in Albania. Albanis demand was that once this coomunist formations enter Albania the should be disarmet and act as civilians. Thas what they did. It was couple of thousands of them and few stayed in Albania. most of them were taken from Poland, Checkoslovakia, Hungaria. It was human drama. People runing from their country in desperate conditions. Separate families, sicknes, war injuries ect. The worst was for kids since a lot of them did cros the border with their families, but they were separated in different countries. Anyway Greek army used the moment to atac albanian territory under the pretext of finishing up greek comunists. The napalm bomb so famous in vietnam was first used from Greek army in Albanian territory. americans had come up with it but, didnt have any real life practice just test. It was not something widespread but was used in ocasions. albania as could be understood was feeling threatened. A week poor country so natyraly asked Moskow for help. Moskow declared that integrity of albania is out of questions they send the message to Greeks and USA through their chanels so to not emabarras USa in world scene. Our prime minister knowing the game was playing betwen Russia and USA and feeling safe finally declared that if Greece doesen't stop military activity inside Albania will drink a coffe in Athens in couple of hours. Meaning our counter offensive will go inside Greek land. the conflict died out with the Greek withdrdawl. Now I wouldn't call it war in real mining of war, but definitely was same battles. It was an attac. Real aim was south Albania. Greek gonverment had advocated strongly in pentagon a partition of Albania (south Albania to Greece and north Albania to Yugoslavia). I dont know if americans ever accepted the plan, but the plan today can be found on the pentagon archives (it was reveiled after the 50 year limitation secrecy). Anyway the resistance put from Albania was enough to not let Greek army roll in a week all over south. that would had made a reality on land dificult to roll it back. since it didnt happend fast and troops were stoped albania had enough time to amas more troops on south and get Moscows support. I dont know the reasons why americans and Greeks stoped with trying . Maybe involvment of russia made the hole plan not fisible.
below you can find a list of the dynamice but, unfortunately is in albanian. try to translate with someone in Greek or english. it is balanced and just cronice of what happend.
Lufta civile në Greqi solli jo pak probleme dhe për Shqipërinë. Qeveria greke akuzonte shtetin shqiptar se po ndihmonte partizanët kundër ushtrisë demokratike greke. Gjatë kësaj kohe janë hedhur parulla, libra e broshura të ndryshme që bënin thirrje kundër qeverisë shqiptare. Robërit grekë pranojnë se komandantët bënin propagandë anti-shqiptare, duke përmendur Vorio Epirin dhe krijonin mes radhëve të ushtarëve psikozën e një sulmi të shpejtë kundër territorit shqiptar. Ushtria shqiptare shtoi forcat e saj në kufirin greko-shqiptar.
Robërit grekë në Shqipëri, 1949
Një skuadër e ushtrisë greke hyri në territorin shqiptar. Forcat shqiptare pas një shkëmbimi zjarri arritën të kapin rob disa ushtarë dhe oficerin grek Skuros Dhimitris, i cili kishte hyrë 300 metra në territorin tonë. Oficeri grek dha informacionin për planet e Greqisë. Ai tregoi se kishte marrë urdhra për të goditur me armë kundër rojeve shqiptare. Ai pranoi se ushtria greke duhet të jetë gati për të hyrë në tokat shqiptare për të shfarosur komunistët dhe më pas të merrej Vorio Epiri.
7 orë luftë në Vidohovë-Devoll, 2 gusht 1949
Artileria greke qëllon me armën në tokat shqiptare dhe predhat bien 300-500 metra në tokën tonë. Forcat greke nisin dhe një sulm ajror duke angazhuar 3 batalione. Në postën shqiptare ishte vetëm një skuadër e armatosur me automatikë dhe mitraloza. Forcat greke vranë ushtarët Tafil Ferhati, Memo Nexhipi, Ferid Bregasi, Shyqyri Avdia, Ibrahim Fetahu, Hasan Ramadani dhe u plagosën 6 të tjerë. Vetëm pasditen e 2 gushtit ushtria shqiptare arriti të zmbrapsë atë greke, e cila kish hyrë në territorin tonë. Nga ana e grekëve u vranë 100 ushtarë dhe u kapën rob 3.
Kërcënimi i gjeneralit grek, Aleksandër Papagos, 3 gusht 1949
Qëllimet greke për Vorio Epirin nuk ishin vetëm fantazi e qarqeve të veçanta, por edhe e zyrtarëve të lartë të cilët jepnin vazhdimisht deklarata anti-shqiptare. Ish-ministri i Mbrojtjes, Aleksandër Papagos, deklaroi në Athinë se pas shkatërrimit të Andarteve, ”Pastaj do t’i biem Shqipërisë”. Kjo ishte dhe deklarata më e rëndë e lëshuar nga një gjeneral lufte, së cilës qeveria shqiptare iu përgjigj me një notë proteste.
Incidenti i Leskovikut, 4 gusht 1949
Pas Vidohovës, ushtria greke i shtriu sulmet në pjesët e tjera të kufirit. Sulme sporadike u regjistruan në sektorin e Bozhigradit dhe në drejtim të Leskovikut, në afërsi të piramidave Nr. 11, 12, 13 dhe 14. Grekët të mbështetur nga artileria dhe aviacioni, me forca të shumta sulmuan kuotat 1425 dhe 309. Kundërsulmet e forcave kufitare shqiptare i zmbrapsën grekët. Në këtë kohë ushtria greke filloi përdorimin e predhave të kalibër të lartë, të cilat lëshoheshin nga pikë larg kufirit, si dhe përdori avionët gjuajtës.
Bombardimi i Menkulasit, 5 gusht 1949
Vetëm gjatë dy ditëve, në gushtin e 1949-s ushtria greke ka hedhur më shumë sesa 1500 predha artilerie. Në komunikatën e Ministrisë së Mbrojtjes shqiptare thuhej se një pjesë e mirë e këtij municioni ka rënë në fshatin Menkulas (Devoll). I ndodhur në këto kushte, shteti shqiptar mori vendimin për mobilizimin e ushtrisë në gjithë kufirin jugor. Masat e marra për këtë mbrojtje në një urdhër të lëshuar nga Enver Hoxha “Mbi moslejimin e kalimit të forcave monarko-fashiste në tokën Shqiptare”.
Beteja e Vidohovës, 7 gusht 1949
Vidohova u shndërrua në një arenë të përplasjes shqiptaro-greke. Në piramidën I-55 trupat ushtarake greke kishin mundur të mblidheshin në territorin shqiptar dhe zhvilluan një betejë të ashpër me ato shqiptare, të përbëra nga një togë dhe një nënrepart i ushtrisë popullore. Ishte një betejë frontale ku forcat greke kishin zënë pikat kyçe. Brenda një dite forcat shqiptare arritën të merrnin pikat e zëna në kufirin shqiptar, po nuk mundën t’i mbanin dot deri në mbrëmje. Vetëm një ditë më vonë forcat shqiptare arritën të largonin togën greke.
Rrëzimi i avionit grek, gusht 1949
Përveç forcave tokësore, ushtria greke përdori dhe aviacionin. Një aeroplan ngrihej nga Korfuzi, duke depërtuar në zonën shqiptare për të bërë zbulim. Me gjithë mungesën e armëve kundërajrore, ushtria shqiptare arriti që me anë të një trekëndëshi me armë të lehta të vendosura në Çukë, Manastir, Ksamil ta detyronte të largohej atë. Në njoftimin Ministrisë së Mbrojtjes së asaj kohe raportohet se aeroplani u rrëzua në fushën e Finiqit dhe piloti u kap rob.
Sulmi grek i 12 gushtit 1949
Përreth gjashtë orë në mëngjesin e 12 gushtit forcat greke dhe ato shqiptare kanë zhvilluar një luftë të vërtetë në zonën e Gurit-Bilisht. Një brigadë e mbështetur nga artileria dhe katër aeroplanë të tipit “Spitfire” sulmojnë tokën shqiptare në drejtim të Bilishtit, ku arrijnë të zmbrapsin rojën kufitare. Luftimet u zhvilluan në afërsi të postës kufitare, ku repartet e ushtrisë shqiptare i thyen forcat greke me gjithë armët moderne që kishin. Ushtria greke kishte në përdorim 36 gryka zjarri të artilerisë, madje u përdorën dhe predha me napalm që digjnin çdo gjë përreth.
Vrasja e komisarit Nasi Remaçka, 13 gusht 1949
Mëngjesin e 13 gushtit forcat greke prej dy brigadash, të mbështetura nga artileria, kaluan kufirin shqiptar në piramidën I-33, sektori i Bilishtit. Qëllimi ishte që të përqendroheshin në Malin e Palikut nga ku mund të sulmonin Bilishtin. Në këtë betejë u vra komisari i batalionit të kufirit Bilisht, Nasi Remaçka, së bashku me korrierin e tij, Dane Zeneli. Ndërkohë robërit grekë deklaronin se në betejën e një dite më parë kishin tërhequr 50 ushtarë grek të vrarë, ndërkohë që atë ditë u vranë 26 ushtarë grekë.
Vrasjet e civilëve, 14 gusht 1949
Mëngjesin e 14 gushtit forcat greke nisin një tjetër ofensivë. Brigada e 41-të, e mbështetur me një regjiment artilerie dhe një skuadrilje aeroplanësh “Spitfirë”, vazhduan sulmet e tyre kundër Shqipërisë. Në këtë ditë grekët hodhën më shumë se 2.000 predha artilerie në tokën shqiptare në katundet Trestenik, Kapshticë e Cangonj-Devoll si dhe në qytetin e Bilishtit. Nga goditjet e artilerisë mbetën 5 civilë të vrarë dhe u shkaktuan dëme materiale në disa shtëpi të katundeve të mësipërme.
Bilanci i një lufte të pashpallur, gusht 1949
Në bazë të komunikatave të Ministrisë Mbrojtjes në vitet 1950, nga rreth 49 provokacionet e ushtrisë greke në kufirin jugor të Shqipërisë mbetën vrarë 29 ushtarë dhe oficerë të ushtrisë tonë. Por duke llogaritur dhe dëmet që u shkaktuan në civilë të paarmatosur, kjo shifër duhet të ketë qenë më e lartë. Ndërkohë që në komunikatë thuhet se në bazë të dëshmive të mbledhura nga robërit e luftës, forcat tona i kanë shkaktuar ushtrisë greke mbi 300 të vrarë dhe 500 të plagosur, ndërsa 270 të tjerë u kapën robër.
Tanket greke në kufirin shqiptar, 1949
Arsyetimi grek ishte se në tokat shqiptare fshiheshin partizanët që sulmonin qeverinë greke. Në “incidentet” në kufi u vunë në përdorim të gjitha armët. Në sulmin e 25 gushtit forcat greke sulmuan me avion artileri dhe 3 tanke. Sipas komunikatës operative të Ministrisë së Mbrojtjes, ky ka qenë një nga sulmet më të mirë organizuar nga ushtria greke, por që u arrit të ndalej nga pala jonë dhe ushtria greke u zmbraps në tokën
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 1, 2008 3:32:07 GMT -5
ok .2-3 objections: 1)we agree it was not a war... so there in reason to accuse Greeks today of attacking Albanian. It sounds nasty... 2)It sounds to me like what Turks are doing today. They entered Iraq to hunt down Kurds and they will come back to Turkey. The only difference is that Greeks entered South Albania to hunt down Greek commounists and go back again. 3)Greece even with the help of US couldnt take part of Albania because all this stuff was finished in Yalta. Albania belonged to the East and Greece belonged to the west. How Greece could attack a Warsaw impact country?.. 4)If that attack took place for real... and I doubt.... that might have been something different. Most propably a crossing of the borders of the Greek Democratic army to hunt down Greek commounist gorillas.. and maybe a village or 2 of Albanians with anti-greek action during the occupation of Greece faced the Greek army... and some battles more like revenge from both sides took place. No way a try for occupation. What we have learned in school is that Greece and Albania were never engaged in real war.. and I believe this is the true. Now... why suddenly I see Albanians dealing with an issue that Greeks now nothing about it.... I believe has to do with the need of Hotzas regime and todays need of American plans in Balkans to divide the population of Balkans. PS. I remember the first Albanian immigrants who came in Greece. I was working in a beach bar together with a guy and while he was drinking his bear by the sea he told me "Unbeliavable. We were waitng attack everyday by the Greeks. That is what Hotza was telling us. and when we made our first step with fear in Greece.... we saw Greeks dancing and drinking in beach bars... without having in mind nothing else than having fun." Now... I bet some of the Albanian immigrants never came to Greece... they immigrated to other countries...they have never met Greeks.. so they still believe that Hotza's talks..
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Post by julius on Mar 1, 2008 7:01:07 GMT -5
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 1, 2008 12:28:59 GMT -5
I am skeptical to believe any of the above.... cause it has only one source and it is Albanian... I have not been able to find any third party sources of this event..not even from my father who was in the civil war from 46-49 and he himself with his men entered Albania more than once chasing commie rebels... this is more of a propaganda from the Albanian government at the time to excite a depressed people....
Greece at the time had an open account of free armaments from the Brits and the U.S. they were in better shape than when they kicked sand in the Italy's face... to give it a consideration I would think it might have been at a non official level like the rumor of the late 90's of Greeks joining Serbs in Serbenica....
I'll get back to this later....
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 1, 2008 14:47:47 GMT -5
I dont know Julius... quite weird story. All of us are dealing a lot with history issues. Why non of us ever heard of that? Quite weird....
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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 14:56:25 GMT -5
THE TENSE ALBANIAN-GREEK RELATIONS AT THE END OF THE GREEK CIVIL WAR AND THE ANGLO-AMERICAN STAND
After the end of the Second World War the relations between Greece and Albania were rather tense. Up to the middle of the year 1946 the main cause of the tense relations was the annexational Greek policy towards South Albania. Greece applied the law as if Greece was at a war footing with Albania, basing on absurd arguments, caused numerous provocations in the Albanian border, undertook a powerful diplomatic offensive to incite the Great Powers to approve its territorial pretentions, and raised an anti-Albanian propaganda hysteria. This policy aggravated very extremely the tense relations between the two countries. In the second half of the year 1946 to this tense situation was added other elements, too, and especially the support that gave the Albanian government to the Greek communist forces. In this manner aggravated also the relations of Albania with the Western Powers which strove to save Greece from sliding into the communist sphere. In the last stage of the Greek Civil War when was evident the superiority of the governmental forces, the Greek government requested to the western allies the invasion of the Albanian territory with the pretext to prevent the actions of the guerrilla. The State Department opposed categorically to this request. The American government considered as exaggerated these Greek arguments, and was worried for the dangerous implications which would be created if the UKG would open fire against the Albanian territory. The American didn’t exclude the possibility of the outbreak of war between Greece and Albania in which they didn’t like to be engaged. The American and the British governments determined as an unchangeable line the restraining of the efforts of Greece and Yugoslavia for the military invasion of Albania. They incited these states to establish normal diplomatic relations. By the end of the Civil War in Greece, the USA strengthened their leading principle in the Balkan policy, that the independence and territorial integrity of Albania had to be defended, preserved from the expansionary excursions of its neighbours; that a change of the territorial status quo of the region only would plunge it in a period of great upheavals which would damage the American interests. In this framework the State Department rejected even a proposition of the under-secretary of the Foreign Affairs of Greece, P. Pippinelis, for the creation of a confederative Greek-Albanian state after the overthrow of the communist regime which would resolve the “problem” of “North Epirus”. But this policy of defending, preserving the borders would not mean that the Western Powers would not strive for the checking and weakening of the soviet positions in the Balkans. The communist regime of Albania was put at the epicentre of the attacks and was isolated in the international arena. Keywords: Second World War; the relations between Greece and Albania; Greek Civil War; Balkan policy; USA; the problem of “North Epirus”; communist regime of Albania
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 1, 2008 15:02:33 GMT -5
And?
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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 15:15:37 GMT -5
We were forced by the comunist regime to speak russianas second language at this time unfortunately .................. But here you have the Chronology of what happened every minute How much you'll pay for me to translate this ..................
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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 15:26:38 GMT -5
On August 2 1949, at 04.30 in the zone of Bozhigrad (Miras), started the artillery bombardment by Greek forces. Artillery rounds fell 300-400m inside Albanian territory. At 05:00, 3 Battallions of Brigade 51F and Brigade 52F of Division 1F, supported by an artillery regiment and a squad of Spitfire aircraft based at Kastoria...begun the attach accross the border. They attacked quote 1309 and 1425, located 100m inside Albanian territory in the area of the border post of Vidohove-Bilisht. They attack was opposed by the Albanian border guards, which numbered no more than a platoon. This was the disloction of the Vidohova border post, armed mainly with automatic rifles, 3 HMGs and 4 LMGs. The battle lasted for 7 hours.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 15:46:31 GMT -5
.........continued On August 2 1949, at 04.30 in the zone of Bozhigrad (Miras), started the artillery bombardment by Greek forces. Artillery rounds fell 300-400m inside Albanian territory. At 05:00, 3 Battallions of Brigade 51F and Brigade 52F of Division 1F, supported by an artillery regiment and a squad of Spitfire aircraft based at Kastoria...begun the attach accross the border. They attacked quote 1309 and 1425, located 100m inside Albanian territory in the area of the border post of Vidohove-Bilisht. They attack was opposed by the Albanian border guards, which numbered no more than a platoon. This was the disloction of the Vidohova border post, armed mainly with automatic rifles, 3 HMGs and 4 LMGs. The battle lasted for 7 hours. According to the press puiblications of August 3 1949, Greek forces suffered around 100 killed and wounded, and 3 prisoners were taken, 2 of whom wounded. Also captured were weapons, incluindg 6 British machine guns, 5 amerikan machine guns, grenadethrowers and a lot of ammunition.
Following August 2 1949, greek aggression were expanded in other areas of the Albanian border, from Bilisht until Konispol.
August 4-5
From a kommunike of the Albanian MoD dated 5 August 1949 "During the day of August 4, Greek forces continued their provocations, in the sector of Bozhigrad towards Leskovik, in the border pyramids 11,12,13 and 14. In the secotr of Bozhigrad, "moarcho-fascists", supported by artillery and aviation, with great numbers, attacked quote 1425 and 309. Counter-attacks by Albanian forces broke these attacks and pushed them out. During August 4-5 and, more than 1500 artillery rounds have fallen on Albanian land. One part of these shells have fallen on the village of Menkulas, destroying 5 homes"
1500 artillery shells during 2 days??? This doesn't seem to me to be the actions of a small force...
The part below this talks about the preparations of the Albanian Army in moving forces to the border and preparing defenses in the areas of Leskovik, Ersek, Bozhigrad, Hocisht and Bilishtit.
On Auhust 7 1949, on quote 1425, where Greek forces had concentrated large numbers, there was a frontal engagement between them and an Albanian border guard unit of a platoon (the unit of the Vidohova border post) and an attached unit of the Albanian Army. Albanian forces divided into 2 grops, one on the right of the village of Qyteza and the other one going through it. During the engagement there was a frontal meeting and neutralization of the enemy using artillery. The enemy did not have any prepared defensive positions. One machine gun placed in a position on top of a hill threatened greatly the advance of our troops on a barren territory. Despite the resistance of the Greek forces, Albanian units were able to take, temporarely, quote 1425, but was unable to hold it becasue the enemy brought in reinforcments and retook the quote. It was not unitl the next day, through counter-attack by the Albanian forces, quote 1425 was retaken and the enemy forces retreated in their own territory.
At 3:30 on august 12 1949, "monarcho-fascist" forces the size of a brigade, supported by artillery and 4 "Spitfire" aircraft, attacked Albanian territory in the direction of border pyramid I-32 in the sector of Bilisht. the enemy was able to penetrate as deep as quote 932. Albanian forces counter-attacked and forced the enemy to retreat in a panic towards quote 966 in their own territory.
Meanwhile, being superior in technology and in number of men, the enemy was able to penetrate to the region of the border post of Guri and the region to the left of the village of Trestenik. Fierce battles took place, especially in the border post of Guri, where the border guards, supported by the army, turned the positions into impregnabale fortifications. The forces did not budge from the heavy artillery shells falling on their positons. The enemy attacked once more in this sector, this time with heavier forces. 36 artillery guns of the enemy opened fire. Bombardments ans straing were also carried out by enemy aircraft, which flew as deep as Bilisht and fired relentlessly on the military forces and border population. Some of these bombs were napalm and caused fires in fields and homes.
Taking advantage of the heavy artillery and aviation strikes, the enemy on this same day, at 13:10, in the size of a brigade, supported by artillery and 6 aircraft, attacked once more
and more......... So...these attacks were not in one location...but several...carried out by forces that were MUCH bigger than "one battallion" as you put it BR, involving brigades in fact, several of which were involved (the names of at least 3 such brigades are given, of 2 different divisions). Large artillery forces were used in their support....2000 shells during one battle as you can read above...and attacks went as deep as Bilisht.
This isn't an all out-war...but certainly well within the realm of calling it "recon on mass". This is what starts wars...if there had been success in these early preparations...further and deeper attacs would have followed. To say Greece had no intentions or aspirations of war towards Albania is also not true. Its not sufficient to say "there were some ultra-nationalists in the army". This was a pretty common trend...and probably the idea. Fundamentally the same excuse and resoning they used with Chameria...they thought they could get away with it and had a "good excuse" in the face of the world...and if the other guy didn't repond and it was esy...then they would go all the way.
These were NOT operations in persuit of Greek communists...they very clearly weren't...nor is that an excuse for crossing the border in such a manner with such force. The intentiosn were otherwise...and the excuse is absolutely unreasonable.
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