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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 16:00:23 GMT -5
My uncle was killed in Albanian territories as unit commander serving his country on August 12, 1949 by greek squadron .
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Post by julius on Mar 1, 2008 16:24:36 GMT -5
Kanaris: this is more of a propaganda from the Albanian government at the time to excite a depressed people.... ======================= This is an invalid argument. Comunist had just come from the war fighting nazis. They were heroes to people at that time. We are talking abou the year 49'. The farmer had his land, all the country was working (according to me, this period was maybe the only alb people worked so much in their existance). All the country was under costruction. Comunists at the time wanted nothing more but peace. That's why they didnt argue about Kosovo. No people was depresed..yet. Now...u say no war, we were after commits. And the article itself says greeks claimed that. BUT: there were coordinated operations against precise targets (pyramids, coordinates) the army was organized, had tanks, cannons, large troops gathered in pourpose to invade. greek army confronted directly alb troops in alb territory. The plane fell in Finiki (ancient city) There was anti alb propaganda, vorioepirot issue to exite greek soldiers. (captured said so) Maybe thats why u have war law againist us - revenge?
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 1, 2008 16:44:24 GMT -5
Guys,don't confuse isolated border skirmishes with an actual battle.. Like I said my dad entered Albania many times.... once they even sat and ate at a place there and the local Albs were very friendly... they even told them to hurry just in case,since they were in uniform,the Albanian army sees them and will want explanations... He felt he was never in danger... Here are some personal pics from that time that my father gave me...they are in northern Greece near Albania... around 1948-49 These are POW'S... Here they are getting ready for another night of chasing rebels in the mountains.. This is my dad's platoon.. he's the guy with the black pointer.. This is near Giannena.. He is the guy not looking into the camera..
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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 18:01:11 GMT -5
You mean Greace never likes to go forward .......to Albania .........till Shkumbin to realize the old dream hellenizing whole Epir .....This was a chinese propoganda .............uh ahahuh
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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 19:09:37 GMT -5
Guys,don't confuse isolated border skirmishes with an actual battle.. Like I said my dad entered Albania many times.... once they even sat and ate at a place there and the local Albs were very friendly... they even told them to hurry just in case,since they were in uniform,the Albanian army sees them and will want explanations... He felt he was never in danger... The deferent between us is we throw way our propaganda with our old regime …..so we are able to see things strait what was good and what bad . You should understand some global politic and leave for while Greek propaganda………. Russia and England- Americans create your civil-war for their influence ……so Greeks communist lost and Russia lost her influence in Greece too, for that reason Greeks have the west power sympathy ….Albania was planned to be the 7th republic of Yugoslavia, but Enver Hoxha used very well the Hole created between Tito and Stalin enjoying his throne easy after. All this hot point was 1948-1949. Let’s clear one thing .If the west power did not care about Albania we could be disappeared easy, but a easy logic can understand that were no warranty with Greece and Slavs in the future, so keeping Albania alive as a strong argument to frighten Greace and Slavs which easy could sell west powers in the Orthodoxy power side used By Russia. Your father and my father seem to be same people same face and maybe same filling if they did not have indoctrination. If you understand that you got a politic diploma.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 1, 2008 19:20:17 GMT -5
I totally agree with you Atlantis.... but this is the type of world we live in... and hopefully the future might get brighter.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 1, 2008 19:24:10 GMT -5
You got the diploma.
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 2, 2008 4:13:09 GMT -5
ok. whatever happened in the borders its in the past. What I know is that I'm 38 and had never teached to hate Albanians, I have never teached about a war to Albania, I have never teached to want Voreio Epirus back. I believe that means something..
If it was a national policy we would have risen with the idea of war with Albania or at least look to Albania as a possible enemy. They would never tell us that in many occassions our soldiers faced a friendly attitude from local anti-fascist Albanian population. That is how things work. It didnt happen.... so all these stuff look very weird to me...
On the other hand.... how you... know so much about these cross-border operations.. and how it comes and the Greeks appear in such a "bad" and "mean" way in your eyes? I think somebody has teached you exactly the opossite...
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Post by bordura on Mar 2, 2008 4:17:33 GMT -5
Basil, it was not a war but definitelly battles on albanian territory. It is true albania and greece never went to war with each other. We also were tought in school that our to nations are friendly and gonverments have issues. What we were tough in schools was that we might be attacet from everyone if we ley down our protection. The psicose wasnt build toward greece but toward every one. We were told NATO and Warshaow pact countries would not hesitate to invade if we are not vigelent. and Greece was a nato country (hence was included on the list of possible countries). The fact the greece kept the law of war with albania till 1987 didn't help either in the psicoze. But to shed some light to the experience do not think albanians were living every day life thinking of the attac. It was more part of governmental mentioning on party congereses every 5 years kinda of state of the state speach. anyway no individuals really believed it the heart or most of populace i would say didnt believe it. As far as Warshaw pact membership goes the pact was created on 1955. albania withdrew from it in 1962. Nato was created in 1949. We were mentioned of the border provocations maybe once in all curicula so wasnt any big deal in education. Many people mostly new generations didnt even know of it. My uncle was an officer send from tirana and participated on the protection of one of the hills in erseka region. the fact the we talk about it here is harmles my friend. In albania i asure u they dont know care or talk about it. or if they are people curiously knowing it it sound like stories from second world war. So no atmosphere or emotions exist. but is a fact that it happend. now why you dont know it? Well i donkt know maybe for Greece wasnt something to note or probably even greek newspapers of the day didnt know about it. Greece was torn, shocked and traumatised from civil war. It was going on. Some trups crossing the border wasnt maybe a significant news since wasnt a mobilization of the hole army or something draging. todays greece is a diffrent planet. But you shouldnt judge those days with todays sensitivity or tools. It wont match. As i said this topic in this virtual reality doesent reflect any thing going on in albania or greece today. This topic by the way was discused 3 years ago in this forum. whith the same shock from greek participants hearing about it. It is just a forum i have heard things about my country too i didnt know in this forum. Its all ok. skin what you read from bias and emotions of writters and just learn the fact if any. I act the same. It is not everything said here lie or anvaluable. same prefere to call it war, battles, incursions, skirmishes whatever. It is what you wan tto but, ther are some facts out there that we find it interesting so we are talking about them. By the way i wont fight you automatically because what i was told and i believe the same for you toward me.
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Post by bordura on Mar 2, 2008 4:28:23 GMT -5
kapedani nice pics. great memories to pass down in the family line. I'm jealous in good way.
opaaaaaa (sorry Rex i know this OPA thing use to be yours here in forum some years ago), but couldn't resist
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Post by julius on Mar 2, 2008 12:12:18 GMT -5
I totally agree with Bordura's point of view. This conversation is harmless. I brought what i could just to verify and convince what happened. Thats all. ============================================== On the other hand.... how you... know so much about these cross-border operations.. and how it comes and the Greeks appear in such a "bad" and "mean" way in your eyes? I think somebody has teached you exactly the opossite ============================ Personally i like to read stuff. It was some years ago i learned about all this, and NOT at school. They never taught us what happened. It was in military academy my father learned about this and confermed to me what I already read before. again about greeks being bad and mean... I personally lived among greek minors. They were among us everywhere. Couldnt hate. And nobody told me to hate. Once a "barbas" was joking and told me about my father saying to vorioepirotes: So what u think, should we put the cannons toward Greece? (he was at cavalry) The relations between us were human in all meanings. Greeks never suffered in albania. All to blame are politics. We saw u as "monarcho-fascists", and u us as ''ocupiers of vorio epirus". Well in the end, we are humans first, then albs or greeks and then ola ta ipoloipa. when i saw kanaris father in uniform i just pictured my own father wearing his. (I also thought mine is more handsome lol)
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 2, 2008 12:16:18 GMT -5
Julius are you an Albanian or an ethnic Turk?
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 2, 2008 12:18:58 GMT -5
My father is the one with the beret and the twin stripes in the middle... you can't say he is not handsome...
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Post by julius on Mar 2, 2008 12:30:01 GMT -5
Julius are you an Albanian or an ethnic Turk? ============== Alb man. The guessing was from my IP right? I study here. No relations with turks at all. Well, he is handsome, but wait to see mine. I'll have to wait for my sister to scan the photo and send it via mail.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 2, 2008 12:35:38 GMT -5
Hope you do well in your studies.... how's the weather this time of the year over there?
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Post by julius on Mar 2, 2008 12:39:52 GMT -5
thanks man. The weather is ok. No cold at all. Athens took all the snow from us this year.
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 2, 2008 12:47:47 GMT -5
Fair answers Bordura and Julius. Ola kala.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 3, 2008 15:13:37 GMT -5
I am skeptical to believe any of the above.... cause it has only one source and it is Albanian... I have not been able to find any third party sources of this event..not even from my father who was in the civil war from 46-49 and he himself with his men entered Albania more than once chasing commie rebels... this is more of a propaganda from the Albanian government at the time to excite a depressed people.... You are skeptical to believe any of this when your dad himself admitted to entering Albania for 3 years in a row. Isn't that an act of war per se?
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 3, 2008 17:56:59 GMT -5
I am skeptical to believe any of the above.... cause it has only one source and it is Albanian... I have not been able to find any third party sources of this event..not even from my father who was in the civil war from 46-49 and he himself with his men entered Albania more than once chasing commie rebels... this is more of a propaganda from the Albanian government at the time to excite a depressed people.... You are skeptical to believe any of this when your dad himself admitted to entering Albania for 3 years in a row. Isn't that an act of war per se? Yes it could be considered as such.... but not more than Turks chasing Kurds in Iraq today... or Israel chasing the Hesbollah in Lebanon.... You actually believe that a communist country at the end of WW2 would declare war on one of the Allied countries? It would have been suicide. Ngadhnjyesi.... issat chew?
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 4, 2008 9:45:30 GMT -5
Ngadhnjyesi.... issat chew? It is me pedhi mou. Ti kanis?
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