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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jun 24, 2008 23:53:07 GMT -5
some albanians were forced to convert and some weren't,but most of those who were forced were so by other albanians who converted to gain power...my ancestors converted during the time of Ali Pasha Tepelena, before that they were orthodox, so what's the point...Thank god I am atheist!
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Post by terroreign on Jun 25, 2008 0:02:11 GMT -5
^Why thank god, when you don't believe he/she exists?
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Post by yahadj on Jun 25, 2008 0:28:09 GMT -5
Well, who cares how did they convert? It was their grand grand grand fathers. They are not here to tell us. What is the use? Only thing that matters is that is a fact now. And above of all the most important thing is what Albanians believe now... Past is past... I hope every Albanian gets to the salvation by sticking to the right path. May Allah bless all Albanians and all of the people who care to think about the meaning of their existence and try to make use of it!
PEACE
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Post by Toskaliku on Jun 25, 2008 1:05:35 GMT -5
I seriously hope for the day when people who think like you in Albania are put back in labor camps like under Hoxha's days. With all imams and pedophile priests.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 25, 2008 3:35:32 GMT -5
first time i agree w/ toskali...
relgion unfortuanatly divides ppl instead of bringing them together...they should keep far out of politics...
the pedophile priests is a little overboard though not all of them are like that...
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Jun 25, 2008 6:47:42 GMT -5
first time i agree w/ toskali... relgion unfortuanatly divides ppl instead of bringing them together...they should keep far out of politics... the pedophile priests is a little overboard though not all of them are like that... whoa touched a nerve
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 25, 2008 6:55:17 GMT -5
not really.... toskali forgot to add a colorful adjective in front of imam, but didnt forget for the priest
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Post by yahadj on Jun 25, 2008 8:41:26 GMT -5
I seriously hope for the day when people who think like you in Albania are put back in labor camps like under Hoxha's days. With all imams and pedophile priests. Oh Ok. So you say, no need to make sense out of our existance. Just live your life without any concerns. Eat, drink, defecate and die... Nowdays that is the way of the majority. Why is wrong to try to find higer meaning in life? Do people need to have one type mentality? This is left over mentality from Hoxa's time. Not everybody has to think the same way. And people will never believe and behave the same way. Allah SWT didn't intended to create one type individuals. Diversity is the rule. And He gave us the blessing of thinking. Nobody can take away my thoughts. Elhamdullilah! PEACE
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Post by yahadj on Jun 25, 2008 8:49:40 GMT -5
People want to be unique and original. Thus everything divides them from everybody if they forget why they live their life. Wordly desires would separate them more than anything else. Because competitionis required to achieve a success in that...
Religion in the hands of bad can be a lethal weapon. I agree.
Religion needs to be taken over by people with higher wisdom and intellect. The problem is that as the intellegentsia run away from religion for the cause of material ideologies it was the less educated and less intellectual people who had to rule over religion. That lead to a lot of misconceptions in the religiion. Well, they tried to their best, but their capacity was limited. At least they kept the scriptures alive. That is a big service. Since all of the materialistic ideologies failed , now intellegentsia needs to take back its place in the religion. That would make a whole a lot difference!
PEACE
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 25, 2008 8:56:38 GMT -5
Although I consider myself somewhat religious...i cant help but appreciate ppl that had a better understanding of religion over a millenia ago compared to some ppl that live today...
Espescially this guy below...
Epicurus believed that death was not to be feared. When a man dies, he does not feel the pain of death because he no longer is and he therefore feels nothing. Therefore, as Epicurus famously said, "death is nothing to us." When we exist death is not, and when death exists we are not. All sensation and consciousness ends with death and therefore in death there is neither pleasure nor pain. The fear of death arises from the false belief that in death there is awareness.
In connection with this argument, Epicurus formulated a version of the problem of evil. Though often referred to as the "Epicurean paradox," the argument is more accurately described as a reductio ad absurdum of the notion that an omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent god could exist in a world that manifestly contains evil. This doctrine, however, is not aimed at promoting atheism. Instead, it is part of an overarching philosophy meant to convince us that gods do not concern themselves with us, and thus would not seek to punish us either in this or any other life.
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Post by captainalbania on Jun 25, 2008 18:50:22 GMT -5
Our race is important, religion is for those without an identity that seek to make a false one through God.
I refuse to share a religion with the Arabs, Turks, Pakistanis, etc.
The better part of Albanian culture lies within our DNA.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 25, 2008 20:21:14 GMT -5
"Albania's liberal laws unfortunately allow for rich Christians and Muslims to pay for mosques as they please here and there..."
Do you think liberalism is a disorder?
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Post by Toskaliku on Jun 25, 2008 20:23:47 GMT -5
No, its natural, I just dont like liberalization of religion is something Id like to see. I would like to see it as repressed as possible, since it allows for better liberalism...
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Post by vinjak on Jun 25, 2008 22:19:14 GMT -5
All sensation and consciousness ends with death and therefore in death there is neither pleasure nor pain.
True but its the pain that either leads to death or just before death that most are afraid off.
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Post by Toskaliku on Jun 25, 2008 22:24:34 GMT -5
For many its the fear of nonexistance. One of my friends went through weeks of anxiety attacks before bed after I told him my view that when I die I will simply cease to exist. And for many others, the fear of not having a afterlife, of losing existence that makes them fear death and makes them want to believe in God and such a fairytale as "Heaven". I dont think pain is so significant in this, its the idea of losing something that is held as the most important thing in your life: your existence. Why do you think those "Allahu Akbar" nutties are so willing to kill themselves?
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Post by yahadj on Jun 26, 2008 0:44:40 GMT -5
The paradox araises from the expectation of people to live a happy life during their existance on Earth. I don't know who promised humans that, but it is total misconception. The Paradise is not on Earth. Earth is place for testing. Humans through their intellect and free will find their place in the diversity of creation. Everybody knows this life is temporary and death is natural as is the birth.
In a Universe with a begining and a projected end it is clear that there is purpose behind its creation.
Since God and His creation are two separate entities we can't expect perfection in the Creation. The perfection is only an attribute of The Creator. The Creator is the highest point of excellence and the center of all good attributes.
The Creator has created the Universe out of nothing. The source of visible and unvisible energy and matter and the laws of physics by which they would exert their existance in the Universe is Allah SWT. The creation of something out of nothing is a process that requires creation of opposites. Positively charged particles and negatively charged particles: electrons and positrons, matter and anti-matted, opposite magnetic fields, good and bad. The total sum of all would be 0 = nothing. It is the will of Allah SWT that keeps them all apart in a fine balance. That is the reason for the wide spectrum of diversity. Every part of Creation fills an important gap for the wellbeing of the whole Creation, the position of each very finely tuned. Thus all of the creation is dependant on the Blessing and the Will of Allah SWT.
Also living organism like humans posses the power of intellect and free will which could help to reorient their life course in a particular direction. The death of a living being marks its final position in the spectrum. Humans throughout their life try to reach their final destination in which they will reside eternally. Thus every single human being would take its place in the wide spectrum of dispersion of good and bad. The best ones will reside near The Creator (In Paradise) and the worst ones at farthest end (Hell).
PEACE
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 26, 2008 2:02:38 GMT -5
Yahac...do you honestly believe in a " Hell " or a " Paradise " running around w/ naked virgins ?
I got to admit...the story of being in paradise w/ loads of virgins dedicated to you is enough to make any man blow himself up ! ;D
Ahhh...those muslims....they really know how get you motivated..
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 26, 2008 2:05:28 GMT -5
Seriously though...I admire what you believe in, and I think thats great. I used to have a strong faith back in the day. Now, it seems like im losing it by the day...
i guess i can classify myself as " agnostic " not really an " atheist "
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Post by yahadj on Jun 26, 2008 2:24:41 GMT -5
No, I don't think that is the case. The reproduction is for this life. The drive to keep living organisms reproduce on Earth is based on the sexual desire. Everything has a purpose. The purpose and pleasures of sex are for this temporary life.
Well, since there won't be any repoduction in afterlife then what is the issue of sexual pleasures about. There is no metioning of any sexual pleasure in Paradise in our Holy Book - Qur'an. There are couple of Hadiths that fomed the base of some of the misconceptions about virgins. They are widely disputed and believed not to be authentic. Their credibility is low. The main source is the Qur'an. Anything that goes against its teachings can't be authentic.
Dreaming about sexual pleasures in heaven is no different than some drug addicts dreaming about pleasures from heroin use in heaven (hasha). What is the difference? Bodily enjoyments are for this life. Our body composition in Heaven would be different than the one we have in this life. And the pleasures, too. The greatest pleasure of afterlife would be to achieve the proximity to the Creator. That would be the highest possible pleasure. What a great feeling would be to be near Allah Almighty and witness His acts of Creation.
The virginity accounts for the purity from sexual drives. And it refers to the companions of the people of Paradise. Some freaks may dream about some orgies but that is their misconception. It is clear that Paradise would be place of unthinkable Bliss. Nothing to compare to any wordly pleasure. And as I said before the best will be rewarded with closeness to the Creator. Te biggest reward of all!!!
PEACE
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 26, 2008 2:34:32 GMT -5
Ok...you clarified the part w/ the virgins..
but my point is that nobody knows or came back to give eyewitness account of an " afterlife " you say it as if youve been there over the weekend...we have the same in the bible as well. I come to realize that there is no " satan " or " hell " and if there isnt any of those two....then guess what. Most likely there isnt any " heaven " either. I think they were used as scare tactics to put ppl in order. But as time goes by, and ppl become educated...the use for scare tactics become obsolete.
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