donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 12, 2008 16:42:14 GMT -5
I do not know Ilir. The cases I've read about mention that it was often 'custom' to enslave the women and children, selling them as slaves ... boys often being enlisted as future janissaries.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 12, 2008 17:04:23 GMT -5
The Arbëresh and Arvanite songs immortalized the spirit of resistance and warlike tradition of the medieval Albanians through songs that passed from generation to generation, songs which I will translate (improvized translations -- feel free to help);
të canjë diert e hekurta, ndë kastele e Anapulit, e të vë flamurin tim.
te kasteli Anapulit, te Anapulit e Methonit, e te Koronit fushëmirë. --------------- to break through the iron gates, in the castle of Nauplion, and pin my flag!
In the castle of Nauplion, In Nauplion and Methon, and Koron of beautiful fields.
Or;
Vemë e vdesim ne dhe tene, Atje tek e patëm thënë, Vdesim me pallë në dorë, Si dhëndurë me kurorë! ----- Let us set off and die, we and you, There where we agreed, Let us die with swords in our hands, like crowned bridegrooms!
Overseas, the Albanians preserved their role as warriors, enlisting as mercenaries in various armies throughout Europe as 'stratiotes'. Many were those who reached great fame, such as Merkur Bua, Dhimitër Buziqi, Dhimitër Laskari "Laska", Theodor Shtrala and others. Many were also those who lobbied for a new Crusade that would liberate the Balkans. Jeronim Kombi was such an Albanian, a military commander in the service of the Spanish Crown in Naples. In 1602 he proposed the organization of an embarking in Epirus of a couple of hundred warriors that were to ignite a rebellion there. They would be commanded by 12 captains who's names were as following; Nikolla Renësi, Jeronim Kombi, Gjon Golemi, Pal Kuruka, Dhimitër Golemi, Stefan Krista, Gjon Skurra, Gjon Plesha, Vasil Papadopoulos, Guljierm Arianiti, Guidon Psara, Michael Bua and Zef Muzaka. (P. Bartl, Westbalkan, p. 150)
Although Albanian, it is interesting to note that Jeronim Kombi came to Italy from Cyprus. In other words there was also an Albanian presence there. Thus in a Venetian document issued by the Senate, April 30 1541, it says;
... to station four military units of Albanian cavalry under the command of Pavlo Bua, Repush Buziqi, Jorgi Gerbeshi and Alexander Gabriera ... order our functionaries in Cyprus, Crete, Zakynthos and Cephalonia and other islands to help the above mentioned with lands, estates etc ... (A. Vakalopoulos, Istoria tou neoterou helenismou, p. 113)
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Post by atlantis on Aug 12, 2008 20:04:42 GMT -5
Interesting... but these are books written by Albanians purchased in Albania? When King Otto of Greece came in Greece in 1830, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?" His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy". :(Zaharias Papantoniou, "King Otto" --------------------
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 12, 2008 20:35:51 GMT -5
I know you keep telling us the same thing.... according to you Greeks did not exist it's a fabrication of our imagination.... thank God you get your info from some heavily biased books... that also tell you some other bull....
I got a question of you ..How many Albanians were in the Greek territories before 1250 ad?
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Post by atlantis on Aug 12, 2008 22:12:26 GMT -5
^^^^^ your grandfathers...... ;D
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Post by greek1234 on Aug 12, 2008 22:33:43 GMT -5
Let's all talk about the Greek presence in Albania that has been around since antiquity!
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Post by atlantis on Aug 13, 2008 9:10:29 GMT -5
^^^^^^^
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Post by epiroti on Aug 13, 2008 12:19:07 GMT -5
Kane, you keep accusing these writers as biased when they use foreign sources. And as for the posibility of those sources being fabricated, it is much easier to create a lie without making up references instead of the opposite (as references can be checked by the "academics" of the other side, hence totally discrediting the author and harming his image and reputation). And when people quote your king, you say some nonsense stuff like "thanks god there were albanians to populate athens...". How does sarcasm change the truth?! You can pretend you're being logical, but is nothing but disgusting weakness, running and hiding from the truth, just to justify your beliefs and feelings towards us. I personally respect the other type of "opponent" who accepts this stuff, but instead of trying to deny it, he simply says that he agrees with the atrocities that the greek state has done (suppression of minorities, genocide, etc...) without pretending to be smart and to justify things. Now, unless you have valuable input, stop polluting this thread. If you can't stand it, don't read it at all. p.s. thanks Donnie
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Aug 13, 2008 13:33:51 GMT -5
Shikoni dhe degjoni se sa mire dhe drejt flasin Camet ne kete video, Njerezit le te shkojne dhe te vijne por territoret dhe kufijte nuk kane pse te ndryshojne. Nacionalizmi eshte vedekjeprures per te gjithe ato vende dhe popuj qe e ndjellin dhe e kerkojne. PEACE!!! Myself, Lord/God Sun_MYSUS Christ !!!!!
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 13, 2008 14:10:16 GMT -5
I know you keep telling us the same thing.... according to you Greeks did not exist it's a fabrication of our imagination.... thank God you get your info from some heavily biased books... that also tell you some other bull.... I got a question of you ..How many Albanians were in the Greek territories before 1250 ad? I'm not sure who you directed this to. Certainly Greeks weren't/aren't a 'made up'/'artificial' creation. Although the Albanian immigration was significiant, the Greeks still composed the majority. Not to mention that the continuous Albanian uprisings lead to a large number of them leaving Greece for Italy. A big number stayed, however, and this played a positive role in the end for Greece which had previously suffered demographic losses due to various factors. This way, Greece was repopulated while Albania depopulated. As for Albanians in Greece prior to 1250; one evidence of Albanian presence in Greece prior to this is the case of above mentioned León Sgouros, who's surname suggests a clearly Albanian origin, something which even Greek authors such as Sathas have confirmed and supported. León Sgouros was son of a certain Sgouros, whom the Byzantine emperor Manuel Comnenus appointed prince (archond) of Nauplion 1180. He was integrated within the political structures of the Byzantine empire, being particularly active in the fight against pirates; he was given this task in 1199 by the emperor Alex III Angelos. In 1213 he dies and is succeeded by his son, León. León was to become enemy with the bishop and archond of Corinth, Nicholaos, who in the belief that the young and unexperienced León would be an easy match, attacked his territories with the aim of siezing Nauplion and Argos. But León defeats his enemy, forces him to surrender and after having blinded him, drowns him in the sea. But this doesn't necessarely have to indicate the presence of large(r) masses of Albanians, just appointed officials of Albanian origins serving in other regions than Albania.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 13, 2008 14:44:38 GMT -5
This is why we can't see eye to eye... Now a guy with clearly a Greek name,Sgouros... is called an Albanian...
I am not denying the importance Albanians played... during those times.... just the occurance of that importance.
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Post by Kastorianos on Aug 13, 2008 14:59:45 GMT -5
Sgouros means "the curled" in Greek. Doesnt sound non greek to me.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Aug 13, 2008 15:07:03 GMT -5
This is why we can't see eye to eye... Now a guy with clearly a Greek name,Sgouros... is called an Albanian... Kanaris how many time do we have to go over this? You add an "s" to any name and it becomes Greek. The root of "Sgouros" is from the word for stone in Albanian. Even your nick, "Kanaris", if you take out the ending "is" turns into "Kanar" which in Albanian mans "scale". Now I'm not saying you're Albanian but there's always a slight possibility of that being true.
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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 13, 2008 15:24:29 GMT -5
He might have been nicknamed "The Stone"(Guri) by his Albanian troops or the tribal groups around him. This seemed to have happened often with Albanians during this period, like Bua "Shpata"
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Post by Kastorianos on Aug 13, 2008 15:48:45 GMT -5
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ZOA am I talking turkish? Sgouros means curled in Greek. Sgouromallis--> curly head. Just because gur means stone in albanians it doesnt make this guys name albanian. Sgouros shall derive from gur? This sounds like...one of Mysias wild theories... Thrace is a pure Albanian word which means Calling. Thrace=Thras Thras=Call
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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 13, 2008 15:50:52 GMT -5
I didnt know it had any meaning in Greek...
But I would, Canaris, trust Sathas as a source... the man knows this period very well... very well.... Bibleriot relied on him a lot.
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Post by atlantis on Aug 13, 2008 16:09:40 GMT -5
This is why we can't see eye to eye... Now a guy with clearly a Greek name,Sgouros... is called an Albanian... I am not denying the importance Albanians played... during those times.... just the occurance of that importance. Also for you Kastor...... For Luan Zguron, P Karolidhi in History Part V” of “Greek people”, says its last name Zgura is Albanian name. The orthodox church hated Luan Zgura for it has been behaved having tried to suffocate a Bishop (Mitropolic) putting therefore in extension indifference between the church Bizantina that was taken care of politics in case taking care itself of religion. Kastor, From the Zguro name (Sguro in greek) and from its pronounces in greek, sgurae says karolinthi comes the sciro name that we found in Albanians (Arberesh and Arvaniti)of the Sicily. You should read your history sourches.....
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Aug 13, 2008 16:27:25 GMT -5
Lexova se Kollokotroni ishte quajtur "Bythguri" nga Arvanitasit dhe jo vet, edhe Bubulina ishte martuar me Arvanitas prandaj e kishte mare mbiemrin bubulina
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 13, 2008 17:03:43 GMT -5
We don't have to add an 's' to Sgouro to make it Greek.... we use it without the 's' too. It is really irrelevant what it means in Albanian because of the many number of Greek words in it.... You even have words we dropped hundreds of years ago...lending more to the confusion and creating many 'atlantises' in your culture.Why would someone use the word 'stratitoti' which clearly means 'soldier' to describe a band of Albanians'? Come on guys..let's discuss with relevancy and common sense.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Aug 13, 2008 20:33:48 GMT -5
We don't have to add an 's' to Sgouro to make it Greek.... we use it without the 's' too. It is really irrelevant what it means in Albanian because of the many number of Greek words in it.... You even have words we dropped hundreds of years ago...lending more to the confusion and creating many 'atlantises' in your culture.Why would someone use the word 'stratitoti' which clearly means 'soldier' to describe a band of Albanians'? Come on guys..let's discuss with relevancy and common sense. I don't disagree with this but you can't completely disregard the fact that there might be some Albanian connection. Also the last name Zguro exists in Albania. Take my last name for example. I have never encountered it anywhere else in Albania but only in Kosova (with an "l" in the middle). When in Facebook found several Greeks with my last name + "s" in the end. I always thought that my last name is catholic and as Albanian as it can get but now I'll have to dig deeper and look into a possible Greek connection. That is bound to happen if you come from Epirus (where my family originates) where there was a heavily mixed Albanian-Greek population. Although I am pretty sure that my ancestors migrated from somewhere in Catholic Mirdita.
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