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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 7, 2008 18:28:59 GMT -5
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
Se kam par kte nej here. Shume interesant.
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Post by albquietman on Aug 7, 2008 23:01:34 GMT -5
Once upon a time greek and albanians used to get along very well together, but one day...we know the continuing, just read this forum
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 7, 2008 23:22:40 GMT -5
Seeing it, I thought: where is the oppression of Greeks in Albania? Would Albanians have gone to Greece if Greek minority was oppressed in Hoxha's time?
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Post by albquietman on Aug 7, 2008 23:31:28 GMT -5
Singing, Arxileas would say, is a form of oppression...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 7, 2008 23:32:56 GMT -5
lol...
Arxileas, is it true? Can you enlighten AlbQ?
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Aug 7, 2008 23:57:45 GMT -5
Forward to minute 6:14 and watch the rest of it;;;;.ansambli ne egjypt!
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Aug 8, 2008 20:21:41 GMT -5
Ummmmm Toskali,
How old is this stuff. Does this not break your rules about the age of something that someone posts?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 8, 2008 20:46:10 GMT -5
panagiotopoulos, it is not the point of how old it is, but the claims that in Hoxha's time the Greek minority in Albania was oppressed...now, looking at the singers singing in Greek (the name of the singer is Zeliha Sina) being Albanian, shows me that no oppression took place in Hoxha's time. This is the point here. By the other hand...the dances were really nice.
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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 8, 2008 22:14:28 GMT -5
1. This isnt being posted as news 2. Its supposed to be a cultural thing 3. I found it interesting because I didnt know such a thing ever happened
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Post by mendor on Aug 9, 2008 3:12:56 GMT -5
Yes of course i have lived that time .I have been also in ansambles of greek singers which come to Albania in that time inclunding the great Mariza Koh. I want some new greeks to see to these videos because it is not propaganda when you listen to the greeks at that time saying very loud ""Zito i Alvania"..("Long live Albania") because the relation of bouth sides was more than very good.
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Post by mendor on Aug 9, 2008 3:23:37 GMT -5
What i noticed is that both Albanians from Greec and also from Egypt are speaking in the same Tosk/Arvanite dialect
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Post by Kassandros on Aug 9, 2008 14:19:16 GMT -5
Albqueitman "Once upon a time greek and albanians used to get along very well together, but one day...we know the continuing, just read this forum" ------------------------------------------------------------- Once upon a time... Greeks civilians used to provide help, clothes, food and a hug, before any official organization!, to every Albanian escaped the Hotza regime to the Greek borders. Once upon a time.. Greeks decide to open FIRST the borders to almost ALL the Albanian economic immigrants instead of choose of many nationalities of immigrants waiting to work in Greece. Once upon a time... Greek employers used to give (except the salary) shelter, home food, accepting Albanian economic immigrants even as family members in a kind of a unofficial adoption etc etc Once upon a time... many many Albanian economic immigrants (most of them former prisoners) decide to become rich very fast and a crime chain started. The first victims of that chain usually were the families of the employers due to the access they had inside the homes of the employers.. Once upon a time... Albanias first Prime Minister Sali Berisha, decided to ally with Turkey and start creating problems, out of nothing, to the Greek foreign policy. He was taking orders from the ally.. the Turkish external policy. Once upon a time... Albanians first PM decided to ally with US too... and to promote the US interests in Balkans. Rise tensions with Greeks etc etc etc. Once upon a time.... Albanian economic immigrants, following the official Albania's guidence, started to hate the "bad" Greeks who were Orthodox... like the bad Serbs were too. Once upon a time... Albanian economic immigrants made it official with the burn of the Greek flag inside the Olympic Stadium of Athens during the football match between Greece and Albania. Once upon a time.... Greeks reacted (even some times with stupid ways) due to the lack of besa Albanian immigrants showed in Greece. Once upon a time..... Albanian PM after Sali Berisha (including Sali Barish today) decided to normalize relations with Greece and keep equal distance from Greece and Turkey, aftrer realizing that.... Greece is their closest neighbor. Once upon a time.... US, althought they didnt accept any Albanian economic immigrants during the hard times after the collapse of commounism in Albania,.... now they accepted almost everysingle Muslim coming from Kossovo area. Now they are the good friends of Muslims in Balkans... and these "bad" Greeks ....are bad! Once upon a time.... Albanian economic immigrants and mainly the ones in US created new tensions with Greece due to the fact that they were fed with anti-Greek propaganda during their time in Albania... they fed with anti-Greek propaganda from American controlled media and people.... and now... they cant follow the change of plans of the official Albanian governent and they kept the state of thoughts they used to have. So... today... in a quite period for the 2 countries... you see in the forums the Albanian jokes from diaspora and mainly US, accusing the "bad" Greeks as racists etc etc forgeting of course that Greeks were the ones who helped Albanian immigrants during the bad times... Greeks were the ones who never sank boats full of Albanian immigrants like Italy did... and Greeks first accepted the economic immigrants without taking first "gifts" like US did.... and Greeks didnt say "only 500 will come because we gonna have overthrow of our public equilubrium" like Swiss did. Of course... Greece as we said... are the "bad" ones inside the brilliant minds of the Albanian new diaspora. What will happen one day... for sure I dont know since you follow US orders in the Balkans. It depends what US has in mind for the region; what I know for sure... is.. that we did all the friendly acts a neighbor should for a neighbor. Since I'm good with my consious.. I care less for the future even if that is a war. Since I'm good with my state of mind on the issue of Albanians in generally.. thats enough for me..
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Post by mendor on Aug 9, 2008 15:27:52 GMT -5
Yes bacilmacedon but you also forget to say that greec open the doors to that nation which is enormous in number brother to Albanian people and which has a lot in common back not so far in history
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 9, 2008 15:54:03 GMT -5
To my understanding, Greece and Italy didn't really opened the border to "hug" Albanians. They had no other choice at the moment, but then, the policy towards immigrants became a little...weird...by having them change names and proclaim of being vorio-epriots As per sinking boats...Italians showed their real face presenting it as "accident" in front of Europe, while to cross over Greece there is a mountain to cross over and Greeks' bullets are not spared
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Post by Kassandros on Aug 9, 2008 17:35:52 GMT -5
Teuta "but then, the policy towards immigrants became a little...weird...by having them change names and proclaim of being vorio-epriots" ---------------------------------------------------------- "Having"?? No honey... you're a little bit confused on this issue. I told you... I've worked with many Albanians. 1) THEY changed their names in the everyday talking due to the fact that they were illegal immigrants. Of course.. an Albanian name is easy to be spoted by police officers while you're talking to a guy. THEY changed by themselves in order to hide their presence as illegal immigrants. That was in the everyday life. NO ID or something official! 2) The second reason was that many Albanians who had good will when they came in Greece and they really felt too ashamed for their Albanian criminal fellow patriots... started to hide the fact they were Albanians although they had the papers to work in a legal way in Greece. They hated the fact they belong to the same group with the criminals. They wanted a normal life with normal citizens. Again... THEY hide it. Again.. NOTHING official like ID or stuff like that. THET just were too ashamed for their nationality and the acts of violence their nationality introduced in a peacefull country. Dont blaim Greeks... for what the Albanians did to.. Albanians. "As per sinking boats...Italians showed their real face presenting it as "accident" in front of Europe, while to cross over Greece there is a mountain to cross over and Greeks' bullets are not spared" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes honey... but Greek bullets are milliions...... and what I saw is 1 million Albanians in Greece.. and police do the blind eye to them... I have never saw Greek police shooting hundrends of Albanians while they were trying to enter Greece. Also... what I have never saw is... an Albanian accusssing Italians as racists and stuff like that.NEVER. Go in Youtube and see by yourself. Whats going on Teuta...? You forget so easily.... or your American lords told you to be focused on the Greek "bad" guys? Where are your human rights Teuta when it comes to Italy, Swiss or any other place in the world where prisons are full of Albanians? lol lol You're so predicted as you were during Ottoman and Nazi occupation of Greece.
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Post by albquietman on Aug 9, 2008 22:12:49 GMT -5
Basil, I couldn't quote your whole post, because it was like a history book, your point of view of course, not mine. Don't make things look like greeks are innocent and their duty is to help the others, in our case the albanians. It's true that Greece in the beginning when the communism collapsed in Albania, she helped the first immigrants, but don't forget that Greece also got money from Eu for doing so, and as a matter of fact your government never used these money for they were supposed to. Later the flux of the albanian immigrants was much higher of course, and it's true that Greece theoretically couldn't keep up with that flux, but real life proved that the greek economy needed these immigrants, and as you may know, weren't not only the albanian immigrants that got a profit out of that, but the greek employers too. They even make a bigger profit because the albanian immigrants were payed just enough to make a living ( I was there at thsat time and I know from first hand).
Anyway, to get back to the part of your post that I quoted above, I wonder how easy you accuse us for following US orders, when Greece was and in some way still is one of the US bastions in Balkan. You were the ones that had and still have US military bases in your country equipped even with nuclear missiles that once upon a time were targeting Albania. Albania so far doesn't have any US military bases, and of course no missiles targeting your country.
Talking about the friendly acts, we never denied the fact that Greece helped us, not with free money of course, but at least gave us an opportunity to have a job when our country was a total mess. What we're talking about here is the way that you like to treat us (not you personally), like second hand citizens. That's what we are talking about here in this forum, because we are not the kind of people that like to be in that position, and I guess you greeks have learned that too. If you guys want respect, you've got to give some first, no matter if you are in your own country and we are immigrants. We're not there to take over your country, we know our status as immigrants, but we do not like to be treated like second hand citizens, because we work hard for our money...I think you should know that first hand, because Greece is one of the countries in the world that has the most immigrants. Please don't tell me that you were better immigrants than us...an immigrant is an immigrant. Nobody wants to be an immigrant, believe me, but we all know the reasons why we have such a status today, probably not you, but most of us here...your own country can never be replaced with some other country, no matter how much money you make and how much rights you have...but life is a b.itch, what you gonna do...
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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 9, 2008 22:54:34 GMT -5
Greece is one of the biggest problems Albania has to solve for itself. Making strong connections with Turkey and Macedonia so as to be able to deal with them would be good, but Albanian politicians are too busy insulting each other through demeaning each others sisters by calling them prostitutes and motel whores... These same men have done this Albania today where connections with a close nation: Turkey, are strained while Greece is closer... A sad thing. How in the hell can Greece say they are "friends"... They have yet to espouse ANY issue that is close to Albanians. They sided with Serbs and continue to lick the jiz coming out the Serbian cok. They have, since the birth of Albania, done nothing more then to try and undermine its political structure, they even did this in the 90's by using the immigrants to bend Albania to its favor. Greece is one of the most destabilizing factors in Albania. It is a nation that has brought nothing but problems. The problem is that in the 90's it was the only stable country lying next to Albania. Yugoslavia was oppressing the Albs in Kosova and war was breaking out, Italy had a sea that they could use to block immigrants... So Albs were stuck with entering Greece. The nation and people has been a plague for Albania and continue to be... Simple as that
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Post by atlantis on Aug 9, 2008 23:14:52 GMT -5
basil said: I've worked with many Albanians...... that's a bad experience for you .....no offense... but your arguments above looks like a night school logic.... there are no good and bad albanians...all of them are trying to survive in a garbage system ...called greek society and propaganda....if any really bad albanian can be considered is not the worst...what you telling us is a greek paranoism, against their neighbors....albanians in Albania and in the other countries are to far about this mentality.... I'm glad they look forward maybe more than greeks....
You never consider the fact ...East is coming to immigrate toward the West ...otherwise we could talk in different position ...but not any albanians could talk as you are... We have a proverb: “Don’t play with bad luck of some body else …soon will be in your back”
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Post by Kassandros on Aug 10, 2008 6:17:55 GMT -5
Albqueitman ". It's true that Greece in the beginning when the communism collapsed in Albania, she helped the first immigrants, but don't forget that Greece also got money from Eu for doing so, and as a matter of fact your government never used these money for they were supposed to." ----------------------------------------------------- For one more time you fail to see that Greece would take the money from EU even if we had import economic immigrants from Bagladesh (without any future worries about Great Bagladesh etc). Also we would have taken the money from EU even if we were importing immigrants in a more normal way (lets say 10,000 every year) in order to be absorbed in the easy way in the Greek society. There was no need for Greece to import 1 million Albanians in 1 month! "but real life proved that the greek economy needed these immigrants, and as you may know, weren't not only the albanian immigrants that got a profit out of that, but the greek employers too." ------------------------------------------------- Yes it is prooven that Greece needed these immigrants. Our PM also thanked the Albanian immigrants for the help they provided for the Olympic Games. Again you forgot to mention that it was prooved AFTER 10-15 years! By the time the Greek police were doing the blind eye in the borders.... NOBODY knew that in 10-15 years we gonna host the Olympic Games and more hands in constuction were needed. Again you fail to see that we GAVE UNCODITIONALLY FIRST.... and THEN we got back. Americans FIRST took.. (Kossovo case).. and THEN they gave! Thats our huge difference with ALL the other countries that host Albanian economic immigrants. Our position was UNCODITIONAL! Come.. and try to make a leaving. NOT.... "10 of you will come that month because that month we have some needs and 15 of you will come 1 month later because we have some needs that time." We said... "come to survive for today.. and THEN... we see." "They even make a bigger profit because the albanian immigrants were payed just enough to make a living ( I was there at thsat time and I know from first hand)." ------------------------------------------------------------ Every beginning is tough. When I was started to work... I got less than minimoum and no social insurance. Reminder... I was Greek citizen.. Thats how things are... you know it... I know it... no need for spare talking on this issue. "Anyway, to get back to the part of your post that I quoted above, I wonder how easy you accuse us for following US orders, when Greece was and in some way still is one of the US bastions in Balkan. You were the ones that had and still have US military bases in your country equipped even with nuclear missiles that once upon a time were targeting Albania. Albania so far doesn't have any US military bases, and of course no missiles targeting your country." -------------------------------------------------- You know very well that it was not Greece who had the military bases against Albanian. Its was a "member" of Nato who had the bases against a "member" of Commounist world. By no means, Greece as a country had personal hostility with Albania... that will guide to invation. No official Anti-Albanian propaganda in Greece.. not official maps with Greater Greece.... not official "push" to hostility against Albanians. On the contrary.. Greece arresteed member of Mavi and finished that organization (an anti-Albanian organization). "Talking about the friendly acts, we never denied the fact that Greece helped us, not with free money of course, but at least gave us an opportunity to have a job when our country was a total mess. What we're talking about here is the way that you like to treat us (not you personally), like second hand citizens. That's what we are talking about here in this forum, because we are not the kind of people that like to be in that position, and I guess you greeks have learned that too. If you guys want respect, you've got to give some first, no matter if you are in your own country and we are immigrants. We're not there to take over your country, we know our status as immigrants, but we do not like to be treated like second hand citizens, because we work hard for our money...I think you should know that first hand, because Greece is one of the countries in the world that has the most immigrants. Please don't tell me that you were better immigrants than us...an immigrant is an immigrant. Nobody wants to be an immigrant, believe me, but we all know the reasons why we have such a status today, probably not you, but most of us here...your own country can never be replaced with some other country, no matter how much money you make and how much rights you have...but life is a b.itch, what you gonna do..." ------------------------------------------------ 90% of the Greek forum members are children of Greek immigrants. Their fathers had the same and even worst contidions in Germany, US and everywhere else in the world. They had to do the dirty business in every country they immigrated, they were paid less, they were changing their names in order AngloSaxons to "accept" them, the were facing racism (you dirty Greeks etc etc) and for sure...... they were facing that discrimination without being part of a criminality circle like Albanians were in Greeece. BUT....have you ever heard these kids to hate these countries? NO! They accept it the fact they are immigrants and they had to face these problems and they moved forward. They kept ONLY the good stuff into their minds. That is called BESA! We have it. You dont!
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Post by Kassandros on Aug 10, 2008 6:22:00 GMT -5
Atlantis "there are no good and bad albanians...all of them are trying to survive in a garbage system ...called greek society and propaganda..." ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Greeks are trying also to survive in that system you know.. They dont give a Mercendes and a villa when we are born... neither we have better options in the bueracracy of our country. We... still become immigrants you in Western Europe you know. But despite that fact... it was Albanian in NY who said.. "There is nothing like Greece in the world"... PS. most propably it was not Toskali or you .....
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