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Post by fannoli on Sept 6, 2008 9:51:41 GMT -5
What is Albanianism and why is different than other nationalists movements? First Albanianism looks beyond religion which is a virtue in todays world where religious conflicts are so common. It has been like this ever since the renaissance. Secondly other nationalists movement seek to destroy their "enemies" and scapegoat them to achieve unity. Albanianism goal seeks to unite Albanians regardless of faith. It's a race base ideology of national survival. Ideology as in a set of ideas that we all agree with. Discuss
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 6, 2008 10:07:12 GMT -5
Albanianism goal seeks to unite Albanians regardless of faith. Why were then Orthodox Churches destroyed in Kosovo ? I don't think that's uniting faiths do you ? Is being Albanian being from another race rather then the "human race" as I understand it there is only one race and that is the human race. Do you agree ?
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Post by fannoli on Sept 6, 2008 10:15:09 GMT -5
Why were then Orthodox Churches destroyed in Kosovo ? I don't think that's uniting faiths do you ? Albanianism goal was never to destroy religion. It was to united people of different religious backgrounds. What happened in Kosovo during 2004 was more national hatred or vengence for what Serbs did during the war in 1999. The people thought by destroying the symbol of Serb oppression was a good way to vent their frustaration. Is being Albanian being from another race rather then the "human race" as I understand it there is only one race and that is the human race. Do you agree? Absolutely agree. If you desires even you can be Albanian. Race is not stopping you. This is not/never was a white supremacist or nazi movement. Its older than that.
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 6, 2008 10:23:08 GMT -5
What oppression did the Orthodox Church play ? Isn't Orthodox part of some Albanians faith too ?
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Post by fannoli on Sept 6, 2008 10:27:18 GMT -5
As an Orthodox Albanian myself i never took offense to the Churches being destroyed. I did not agree with the violence but unlike accusation from the media who tried to make it seem like it was a religious war.
Orthodox Church in Kosovo was highly politicized Arxileas. It had connections with government officials, institutions and more. It was in itself a political institution also as well nationalist religious institution. Do you agree?
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 6, 2008 13:20:53 GMT -5
Noli, make sure this topic doesnt turn into a Kosova church topic please. I would rather it stay clean from the ignorance of Arxhi...
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Sept 6, 2008 14:42:58 GMT -5
Albanianism goal seeks to unite Albanians regardless of faith. the serbian patriarch is well documented to have a hand in inciting ethinic devide and fueling racial hatred, as well as harbouring war criminals and funding paramilitary militia to carry out genocide, hence we are dealing wih a heavy laden political institution with a clear anti-albanian agenda.....i say its only natural people channel their aggression into such a scumbag, rotten clergy i don't get it
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Post by Teuta1975 on Sept 6, 2008 16:14:59 GMT -5
Arxileas wrote:
The term Albanism was applied long before the war in Kosovo took place. What it meant was ethnic identity rather than Religious one. The destruction of Orthodox Churches has nothing to do in terms of "uniting faiths", because this is what Albanism is: not uniting faiths, but uniting people (Albanians)!
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Post by rusebg on Sept 6, 2008 16:30:43 GMT -5
This one coming from a guy who wants to puke each time he hears or reads the word Slav... as if he pisses oil and is the proud owner of 10 dka of private clouds.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Sept 6, 2008 16:40:41 GMT -5
Albanianism means National Identity with Freedom and Human Rights !!!!!
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Post by atlantis on Sept 6, 2008 21:22:43 GMT -5
What oppression did the Orthodox Church play ? Isn't Orthodox part of some Albanians faith too ? Albanians were owners of orthodox church before the great Slavic Invasion ....so the owner can not destroy his house...if the religion mach with Mongols we destroy it....south and north....
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 7, 2008 10:22:33 GMT -5
As an Orthodox Albanian myself i never took offense to the Churches being destroyed. I did not agree with the violence but unlike accusation from the media who tried to make it seem like it was a religious war. I see, it’s interesting to hear from an Albanian Orthodox, I remember you mentioned you were an Orthodox once so wanted to know from you. Thanks for the input. Don’t know if I can agree or disagree due to the fact on not an expert on Kosovo Orthodox Church matters, as I understand many Governments and Churches are a separate entities, so I presume that would be the case for Kosovo too ? I have never studied how connected they maybe be ? Ok so for your Albaniansm how well do you guy’s think you’ve promoted it ? Because your neighbours are either suspicious or really cheesed off, what I am saying is, do you think you’ve planted the right seeds for a brighter future or more wars in future and misery for your self’s ? P.s This isn’t an attempt to start a flame war, but to see and get some feedback on what and how you guy’s see things. So chillax people.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Sept 7, 2008 10:30:18 GMT -5
If you go to Albania, you'll see that 99% of marriages are between Muslims and Catholics or Muslims and Orthodox Albanians to begin with. To continue, we don't ask: what religion do you belong, but: are you Albanian? And to finish: we don't have any religion pertinence on the passport...(do you guys in Greece still have it?)
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 8, 2008 20:09:03 GMT -5
What is Albanianism and why is different than other nationalists movements? First Albanianism looks beyond religion which is a virtue in todays world where religious conflicts are so common. It has been like this ever since the renaissance. Secondly other nationalists movement seek to destroy their "enemies" and scapegoat them to achieve unity. Albanianism goal seeks to unite Albanians regardless of faith. It's a race base ideology of national survival. Ideology as in a set of ideas that we all agree with. Discuss I view it as a cultist movement. It is the enslavement of minds based on a false morality. Its interesting you mentioned faith as faith is belief in something without proof of its existence or validity. Can't belief in 'Albanianism' be described as a faith much similar to belief in religion? If 'Albanianism' was not fundamentally against 'enemies' then there would be no need of it or use for it. Tribal collectivization through violence is always the result of the fear of other human beings you believe to be morally different than you and 'your people.' Scientifically speaking , I don't know what truth exists in the concept of Albanianism being racial based. Ideologies with contradictory axioms and no objective truth = bigotry.
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 8, 2008 20:29:59 GMT -5
Thats because your an idiot. Its nationalism based on radically anti-religious values. Its basically an early secular movement at a time when most people in Albania didnt truly comprehend secularism. No different from how French nationalism united French Catholics and Huguenots.
Btw, originally Albanianism didnt imply atheism or any such thing. It was simply a ralying call for all Albanian speakers regardless of faith. It was later on that it became anti-religious.
If anything, Albanianism is a pan-nationalist movement that was created in a society totally run by religion.
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Post by fannoli on Sept 8, 2008 20:37:25 GMT -5
I view it as a cultist movement. It is the enslavement of minds based on a false morality. Its interesting you mentioned faith as faith is belief in something without proof of its existence or validity. Can't belief in 'Albanianism' be described as a faith much similar to belief in religion? Albanianism has never tried to convert or impose on other people. What you said is preposterous. If 'Albanianism' was not fundamentally against 'enemies' then there would be no need of it or use for it. Tribal collectivization through violence is always the result of the fear of other human beings you believe to be morally different than you and 'your people.' There are indeed enemies of Albanianism. The enemies of faith division. The division of faith that has wasted lives of Bosniak muslims, Serbian orthodox and Croatian catholic. Scientifically speaking , I don't know what truth exists in the concept of Albanianism being racial based. Ideologies with contradictory axioms and no objective truth = bigotry. To me its a beautiful idea where everybody does their part and shares to grow into something larger and beautiful. It has kept the Albanian nation alive for all these years. All those people in the video valued themselves less than their country. They were not selfish. They fought and many died for this idea. If people are ready to sacrifice their live for something bigger and valuable i praise them wherever they are from. Just a Quote From Thus Spoke Zarathustra All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment…
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 8, 2008 22:29:57 GMT -5
Thats because your an idiot. Its nationalism based on radically anti-religious values. Its basically an early secular movement at a time when most people in Albania didnt truly comprehend secularism. No different from how French nationalism united French Catholics and Huguenots. Btw, originally Albanianism didnt imply atheism or any such thing. It was simply a ralying call for all Albanian speakers regardless of faith. It was later on that it became anti-religious. If anything, Albanianism is a pan-nationalist movement that was created in a society totally run by religion. Its still a cult fundamentally. Its irrational collectivization since 'Albanianism' is based on some inherent 'morality' within Albanian people that makes it 'right.' Of course there is no basis in truth for the morality in Albanianism. Futhermore , it functions , like all nationalisms , to serve the subjective whims of the leaders that propagate it. Thats mind enslavment and destruction of the individual. If I am an idiot then don't bother responding to my arguments and its irrational to have any condescending reaction towards me. State secularism was used to some degree as a counterbalance to religion but its still based fundamentally on the same collectivist irrationalities as religion. The priest becomes the politician, god becomes the state , religious label becomes national label, etc. Its just a different kind of slavery.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 8, 2008 22:38:09 GMT -5
I view it as a cultist movement. It is the enslavement of minds based on a false morality. Its interesting you mentioned faith as faith is belief in something without proof of its existence or validity. Can't belief in 'Albanianism' be described as a faith much similar to belief in religion? Albanianism has never tried to convert or impose on other people. What you said is preposterous. There are indeed enemies of Albanianism. The enemies of faith division. The division of faith that has wasted lives of Bosniak muslims, Serbian orthodox and Croatian catholic. Scientifically speaking , I don't know what truth exists in the concept of Albanianism being racial based. Ideologies with contradictory axioms and no objective truth = bigotry. To me its a beautiful idea where everybody does their part and shares to grow into something larger and beautiful. It has kept the Albanian nation alive for all these years. All those people in the video valued themselves less than their country. They were not selfish. They fought and many died for this idea. If people are ready to sacrifice their live for something bigger and valuable i praise them wherever they are from. Just a Quote From Thus Spoke Zarathustra All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment…'Albanianism' can't do anything. It doesn't exist in reailty. Only individuals with ideologies exist in actual reality. Its still obscure what 'Albanianism' actually means and why it is virtuous in anyway. All irrational ideas of the morality of collective concepts like 'Albanianism,' 'Serbdom,' ' Proletariat,' etc are force fed to children through irrational family traditions , state education, and churches. Social indoctrination. Religion plays a large dividing factor in humanity no doubt. But so does nationalism. You can see how a person living in one part of Albania adhering to one religion is fundamentally no different than a person adhering to another religion in another part Albania but why is this principle different between someone in Belgrade and someone in Tirana? What separates you fundamentally since your the same damn species accidently born in two different families in two different geographic locations? Why would you die for such a concept? What is inherently moral about 'Albanianism?' I mean if I learned to speak Albanian and bought a house in Albania would you really die for that? I can't see how any rational human being would be willing to die for someone who has property in a particular geographic location and speaks a forumlation of grammer and words to form a particular language. Do you see why I think its ridiculous?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Sept 8, 2008 22:46:07 GMT -5
I don't quite get what you are trying to say? That there has always been a motive, an ideal, religion, doctrine or interest (call it as you please) to unite people it's not new. In terms of Albanians: what unites them is overall being Albanians and it is applied against separatist movements related mainly to Religion. And the idea of it is very simple: Albanians - same language, same ethnicity. Excluding Religion, State, Government...What happens next (after the Albanians are not divided by Religion) is something that is called Politics and has nothing to do with Albanism. In all countries there were some fractions that helped on instituting nationalism and restored ethnicity, (in the case of Greece it was the Church and so on). I fail to see what kind of slavery would Albanism be, if it promotes to put national identity before Religion? They sound the same, and they are, if they were to bring the same result. But in the case of Albanians, Religion has brought more damage than good to Albanians and Albanism is the counterbalance of Religion. What Albanism brought is the unification of the country. What Religion brings is the division of it. In both cases the simple people are destined to be slaves as in all times and places, through Religion or Politics. But at least Albanians will have a country to introduce in front of the world. Have you ever tried to be a person without a country? Try it!!! And you'll see....or being presented something you sure are not!
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Post by fannoli on Sept 8, 2008 23:51:25 GMT -5
Why would you die for such a concept? What is inherently moral about 'Albanianism?' I mean if I learned to speak Albanian and bought a house in Albania would you really die for that? I can't see how any rational human being would be willing to die for someone who has property in a particular geographic location and speaks a forumlation of grammer and words to form a particular language. Do you see why I think its ridiculous? A lot of concept put the way you did it sound ridiculous. Why would i die for my wife. She is just another human being thats not blood related to me. SHe is going to turn into dust when she dies anyway. Im only in love with her but so what? I'm in love with a lot of other things... My wife dying is no different to me than the horse dying. Sound ridiculous? But what is worth dying for? Thats a better question? Some think family, honor, country, tribe, god... etc Radiate i know what you're trying to say though just find a better example. You're trying to put more emphasis on individuality and commonality. Thats your point of view and not everybody shares it.
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