Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 24, 2009 12:00:43 GMT -5
The question is. How can you go against a people who you owe our existance? We owe our "existance" to you, the Tourkalvanous? !!! ;D ;D Guys, you have a big complex towards Greeks... don't you understand that any post like these just prooves that you will always live in the shadow of Hellas... ;D... something like a very poor illiterate neighbor who thinks thats if he steals the hubcap of his wealthy neighbor's car he would be decent... Doesn't this say anything to you?...how ridiculus and esurient you seem(and are)
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Post by insomniac on Apr 24, 2009 12:05:24 GMT -5
Except that "rich Greece" today, survived because of us.
Also, when a stronger Turkey will develop(and this is a certain thing). They will play Greece around their fingers. Their sheer size, strategic position and economy will make them stronger. Couple with the Macedonian problem. Albanians should just enjoy the show. Maybe, then, Arvanites will fight for you guys. Haha, good luck with that warrior spirit now.... being washed after generational change.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 24, 2009 12:07:09 GMT -5
Except that rich Greece today, survived because of us. Also, when a stronger Turkey will develop(and this is a certain thing). They will play Greece around their fingers. Their sheer size, strategic position and economy will make them stronger. Couple with the SerboMacedonians trying to develop theiAlbanians should just enjoy the show. Maybe, then, Arvanites will fight them. Haha, good luck with that.... How old are you??? When this scenario happens...we'll call Superman,Thundercats and GI-Joe and we will prevail!!!!! ;D ...orse minara!
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Post by insomniac on Apr 24, 2009 12:14:27 GMT -5
If there is a word to describe you guys its "ungratefulness". B.t.w Enjoy the Economic Crisis.... i heard your tourism is booming
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Post by insomniac on Apr 24, 2009 12:25:59 GMT -5
When this scenario happens...we'll call Superman,Thundercats and GI-JoeYou will also need Batman and Robin, Catwomen and many more hero icons when that scenario happens.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 24, 2009 14:44:52 GMT -5
Look thats the reason why you didnt understand anything...you apparently read some sides of this book...yet it was in vain if you ask me. First of all you are trying to give us a scientific proof for your thesis (arvanites are/were albanians etc). But...you yourself are anything but scientific in the conclusions you have made till now.
Look at your above statement...you say Greeks are ungrateful. In my opinion this does just show that you always turning off your brain when you read this book...and you become emotional. What you say first of all requires that you (the albanians) gave something to us the Greeks. Even if the arvanites were genetically albanians we still dont owe anything to the albanians of albania. Nothing. Because all those arvanites' descendants (without exceptions) are living in Greece today..and they do fully idenitify themselves with the creation of the country in which their forefathers had a hand in. So all elements that have to do with our revolution have remained within our borders. Not one has left our country and also none was expelled. If that was the case you could talk about ungratefulness.
But as long as reality doesnt look like that it is just impudent of you to make such a comment. There is no reason to owe something to someone who is just an external element (and thats what you are). You are where you are (Albania) and we are where we are (Greece). You have nothing done for us, every single battle that took place in order to free Greece, was done by our forefathers.....not one by yours.
I believe you have to accept finally these obvious facts. And there is nothing to discuss about it...it is as it is.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Apr 24, 2009 15:11:01 GMT -5
Greeks know themselves that are lazy people and they can do nothing uithout albania and albanians. Hail Albania !!!!!
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Post by insomniac on Apr 24, 2009 15:18:05 GMT -5
First of all you are trying to give us a scientific proof for your thesis (arvanites are/were albanians etc).
I think, this issue is as clear as Macedonia is Slavic.... In fact, when we Albanians talk about this issue, it is as when you guys talk to Macedonians today. Ridiculous!
So all elements that have to do with our revolution have remained within our borders
Did you count them yourself? What about Aristidh Kola? I guess not all, but almost all.
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Post by Alb_Korcar on Apr 24, 2009 15:34:00 GMT -5
Except that rich Greece today, survived because of us. Also, when a stronger Turkey will develop(and this is a certain thing). They will play Greece around their fingers. Their sheer size, strategic position and economy will make them stronger. Couple with the SerboMacedonians trying to develop theiAlbanians should just enjoy the show. Maybe, then, Arvanites will fight them. Haha, good luck with that.... How old are you??? When this scenario happens...we'll call Superman,Thundercats and GI-Joe and we will prevail!!!!! ;D ...orse minara! theyre not necessary when we have Chuck Norris
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 24, 2009 15:59:56 GMT -5
theyre not necessary when we have Chuck Norris Where do we sign our surrender.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Apr 24, 2009 17:32:16 GMT -5
Guys give it a rest with this whole Arvanites issue, it's getting old. If Albania had the same economic status as say Switzerland, the Arvanites would be lining up the doors of our embassy in Athens to reclaim their Albanian roots. We will never be like Switzerland so let it go.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 24, 2009 17:46:52 GMT -5
Arvanites cannot have anything to do with Albs by virtue of their pro-hellenicness... Hell thats wrong, they dont even differentiate themselves from it and hence are against everything Albs uphold. Any Alb who befriends an enemy is an enemy by association.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 24, 2009 18:09:51 GMT -5
"gustave goin crazy, lol !." lol lol lol Every now and then... a newbee Albanian comes in the forum and his hate for the Greeks brings new .. pattion.... lol lol
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Post by ErmirI on Apr 24, 2009 18:26:01 GMT -5
hate? new? I have been here for a year now
you can't argue with what I bring, even when they are from non-albanian sources and even by greeks themselves like the article on jews
I guess someone has a turkish name and after cleansing his city of all non-orthodox has the guts to say Albanians wer with nazis and tell slavs what they are lol
there are some pitiful creatures on this world, why did we Albs have the misfortune of having them as neighours...
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 24, 2009 20:09:15 GMT -5
Listen gustave... I would love to be open minded and absorb your ideas or your books ideas. But the problem is that if I get your ideas... I must admit that Greeks are Albanians, Slavs, Turks or whatever. I would not have a problem with that.... but the problem is..... where the ancient Greeks have gone?! lol lol lol Ok... I can accept the kidnap of a nation and almost 5 million people from Marcians too.... but again.... there is no life in Mars... so.... my puzzle still exists... lol lol . On the other hand... we can take the Zeus option.... but again... the spacecrafts were not so good at that period... lol lol Ok. Lets take it from a different angle. Greek were suddenly disappear on the space. None of them has survived in the war with the alliens. Again..... the Hellenic culture was so BIG... that took all these Albanians, Turks, Slavs etc ... and made them Greek. I'm one of them too if you wish. Is that ok with you?... AGAIN... I BELONG IN THAT GREAT HELLENIC CULTURE... AND YOU STILL DONT! lol lol Come on... give a break. From every angle you see it... you're the looser! lol lol Dont blaim me for that....
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Apr 24, 2009 20:29:59 GMT -5
Listen gustave... I would love to be open minded and absorb your ideas or your books ideas. But the problem is that if I get your ideas... I must admit that Greeks are Albanians, Slavs, Turks or whatever. I would not have a problem with that.... but the problem is..... where the ancient Greeks have gone?! lol lol lol I don't think any Albanian in his right mind would claim that Greeks are Albanians or descend from them. What some Albanians claim here is that Orthodox Albanians helped out the Greeks in their war for Independence. They are also aware that Moslems Albanians fought alongside the Ottomans in crushing that war. Were the majority of the fighters in the Greek War of Independence Albanians? I don't believe so but I believe that some of them were. Would any of their descendants consider him/herself Albanian today? Absolutely not but that is all result of the political situation and relations between the two countries. I understand that for today's Greeks it is inconceivable that Albanians, who in their collective psyche are modern day "sub-humans", could have possibly helped in fighting in their noble fight for Independence because only the Greek ubermensch were capable of that. Many Albanians get irritated when the Greeks deny any Albanian involvement in their fight for independence. This misunderstanding stems from the concepts of "Nder" and "Besa". Under "Besa" an Albanian is to help anyone in need or offer protection to anyone needing it. Whereas under "Nder" one who is offered the help has to be eternally thankful to you. In today's Albania people get very offended when they do a favor for someone and that other person shows any sign of ungratefulness to the point where a feeling of animosity arises. I personally could care less but I am just trying to clarify a few things that I think are getting lost here.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 25, 2009 4:08:20 GMT -5
Jesus, I feel like Im back in 3rd grade...
Ngadho,
What your posting shouldnt be news to Greeks since its part of the greater Mediterranean 'guest-host'/'patron-client'/'honor-shame syndrome. Think of the Mafia culture and you will note the same complex. By doing a 'nder'(honor) the Alb expects an honor in turn, whether its simply a 'thank you' or a favor at a later time. A break of this is act of social disgrace, whereby the honor of the person at the receiving end is damaged. In traditional Albanian, and traditional Greek, such acts of social impropriety could get a man killed through enactment of the blood feud. Breaking any of these social norms was to transgress to an extent that you become subhuman as you lose the prime principal of any civilized man.
Greeks have this aswell through the culture of the 'timi', same exact meaning as 'nder'. In Alb concept Besa is, as far as I know in ancient Greek, transliterated through the zenios (guest-friendship).
Its a common aspect of Italy as well...
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Post by monsterofsouli on Apr 25, 2009 11:15:09 GMT -5
^^^ You again always acting like a know it all. Your pretty annoying and this thread well nevermind. Wake up from your sweet dreams.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 25, 2009 12:50:09 GMT -5
ngadhnjyesi "I don't think any Albanian in his right mind would claim that Greeks are Albanians or descend from them. What some Albanians claim here is that Orthodox Albanians helped out the Greeks in their war for Independence. They are also aware that Moslems Albanians fought alongside the Ottomans in crushing that war. Were the majority of the fighters in the Greek War of Independence Albanians? I don't believe so but I believe that some of them were. Would any of their descendants consider him/herself Albanian today? Absolutely not but that is all result of the political situation and relations between the two countries." -------------------------------------------------------------- We tottaly agree.... except 1-2 points. 1st) is that If somebody of Albanian origins denounce his roots its not because of political situation or relations between the 2 countries... but because of Albanian themselves. Dont forget that Albanians, at least the last 10-20 years had not very good reputation as far as it concerns them and the laws.. Also.... that "villager in the city" syndrom that all Albanians had when they came from mountainous isolated villages in cities around globe. Now... lets say you're of Albanian origins... and now you're in a different level. You have worked hard.. you have won reputation.. maybe money.. maybe glory. You have given your kids a great education in a very expensive college. ....and suddenly... somebody with the previous characteristics (the ones with the law problems or the "villager in city syndrome" comes and spreads out the news that youre relatives! Would you be happy with that? Would you expose your Albanian origins without giving it a second thought? So dont blaim always the Greeks for everything. Try for once to blaim yourselves too.. 2)... I have a tottaly different theory about those Christian Albanians you mention... and I dont know if you like it. For me.. the word "Albanian" is a new invention. There were the Greeks in South and Central Epirus..... they were the Ghejks (an ancient tribe.. not necessery Illyrians but ancient tribe too) in Norther todays Albania.... and there Tosks in North Epirus.. a tribe that was a mixture of Greeks and Ghejks. Most propably they took the Greek characteristics, religion and paterns of behavior... and they took many language infuences, other paterns of behavior and some other stuff from the northern tribes of Ghejks. So.. according my theory ...... These Christian Albanians were nothing more than Greeks in an extend who fought for their nation. After the continous interaction with Greeks... they kept only their Greek part and lost their Ghejk part... PS. if that theory is not prooved somehow.. I'm fuc.ked up! lol lol "I understand that for today's Greeks it is inconceivable that Albanians, who in their collective psyche are modern day "sub-humans", could have possibly helped in fighting in their noble fight for Independence because only the Greek ubermensch were capable of that. ' ------------------------------------------------------------- In case my theory fails.... you have some right on the above. "Many Albanians get irritated when the Greeks deny any Albanian involvement in their fight for independence." ---------------------------------------------- What I have seen until now from the Albanians of the forums is not what you say.... but I see Albanians getting irritated when Greeks... say they're not Albanians! lol lol ....they get irritated when Greeks dare to say that ancient Greeks have not disapperead in the outer space.... get irritated when Greeks react to albanian criminality... get irritated when Greeks are religious Orthodox...... get irritated when Greeks have more money from them.... get irriated when Greeks say something bad for the Turks... etc etc etc. Really mate... I dont think is only that.. its something more deep.. .and it needs time and a lot of self esteem for Albanians the future years in order for them to stop getting irratated from Greeks "This misunderstanding stems from the concepts of "Nder" and "Besa". Under "Besa" an Albanian is to help anyone in need or offer protection to anyone needing it. Whereas under "Nder" one who is offered the help has to be eternally thankful to you. In today's Albania people get very offended when they do a favor for someone and that other person shows any sign of ungratefulness to the point where a feeling of animosity arises." ---------------------------------------------------------------- We have that too you know. In a big extend too! That might answer some of your questions about how a Greek felt when we were the first and uncoditional helped albanians the very first days after commounism collapsed and other coutnries cared less (US, UK)..or other even shank ships with albanians.... and we saw that not only that "eternaly thank" you exists... but on the contrary... there are tons of hate from Albanians towards Greeks.... and as you know... one thing brings the other...
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Post by worldcit on Apr 26, 2009 9:11:43 GMT -5
So.. according my theory ...... These Christian Albanians were nothing more than Greeks in an extend who fought for their nation. After the continous interaction with Greeks... they kept only their Greek part and lost their Ghejk part...
PS. if that theory is not prooved somehow.. I'm fuc.ked up! lol lol
Nice try...but... sorry you're really f**ked up...
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