Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Apr 28, 2009 16:55:41 GMT -5
It's really funny and pathetic when these guys call themselves pure..
If you noticed around the world the only countries that call themselves pure are also chitholes and dirt poor... Let me see..the Azeri's,Mongolians,Hatians...most of the African countries... I guess I can add Albania to that...
What are Americans made off? Thats right the most powerful country in the world is made up of a varied mish mash of people.... lead by a black president.
By the high mighty pure Albanians are pure ... what's your GDP per person agian?
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 28, 2009 17:32:47 GMT -5
Toskali "As for you Basil, we are already in NATO and Bollano was arrested. Btw, Greece had the support of the chief EU states in vetoing FYROM" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ to remind you... you're in Nato.. because Greece and the ones who "support" Greece said "Yes". After our "Yes" you start acting again without besa as it was expected... To remind you... you need one more "Yes".. and that is for EU. As it seems with Karamanlis visit.. this time... you have to gain it. Without besa once.. .without besa twice.... without besa back then with Ottoman, Nazis, Americans and all the big empires against the rest of the world....how many times do you believe that you'll be lucky? You will have many exams for the second "yes" as it seems from Karamanlis visit... and these exams will not be oral... but written in your constitution. Like it or not... c'est la vie. We gave our exams... and we had the besa needed to pass the exams. Its your time...
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Post by filomen on Apr 28, 2009 17:59:33 GMT -5
the greeks are so noted to mantein their besa !! by the way year by year being in UE its not so popular in albania
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 28, 2009 18:14:41 GMT -5
Albanians have the bad besa reputation filomen... not Greeks. You dont want me to remind you again of Ottomans, Nazis and Bushland.. dont you? By the way... EU was not popular for Milocevits... is not popular in Turkey.... is not popular in the occupied part of Cyprous etc etc. I dont know if that says something to you... Just take a look who are the ones that dont like EU..
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Post by filomen on Apr 28, 2009 18:19:46 GMT -5
I dont say albanian dont like UE or hate UE only tere is not so uch pop. year by year Albanians didnt atac greec. after greec indipendenc maeby the oposite what y think
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 29, 2009 1:02:48 GMT -5
Karamanlis sot në Tiranë. Bollano: Mos eja në Shqipëri
• Kryebashkiaku i Himares i denuar me 6 muaj kerkoi nepermjet Shoqata OMONIA-s i kërkon kryeministrit grek të anulojë vizitën ne Shqiperi. Apelit drejtuar Karamanlisit i është bashkuar edhe Federata Pan-Epirotike, ku bëjnë pjesë shoqatat që mbrojnë kauzën anti-shqiptare të Vorio-Epirit. Nderkohe sot Berisha dhe Karamanlis nënshkruajnë në Tiranë marrëveshjen aq shumë të rëndësishme, atë të kufijve.
HIMARE-Kryetari i Bashkisë së Himarës, Vasil Bollano tenton të "hakmerret" ndaj shtetit shqiptar pas vendimit të Gjykatës së Vlorës, që e dënoi atë me 6 muaj heqje lirie. Gazeta Shqiptare zbuloi se nëpërmjet Organizatës së Minoritetit Etnik Grek (OMONIA) që drejtohet prej tij, ai i ka kërkuar kryeministrit grek, Kostas Karamanlis të anulojë vizitën zyrtare në vendin tonë të planifikuar për ditën e sotme, duke u përpjekur kësisoj ta shndërrojë në një incident diplomatik mes Athinës dhe Tiranës, raportin e tij personal me drejtësinë shqiptare. Apelit drejtuar Karamanlisit i është bashkuar edhe Federata Pan-Epirotike, ku bëjnë pjesë shoqatat që mbrojnë kauzën anti-shqiptare të Vorio-Epirit. Në një letër të përbashkët që ato i kanë drejtuar shefit të qeverisë greke, pretendohet se anulimi i kësaj vizite "do të ishte përgjigja e duhur që Greqia do t'i jepte persekucionit të përshkallëzuar të helenizmit në Shqipëri". Sikundër OMONIA edhe Federata Pan-Epirotike e mbështetin këtë pretendim në vendimin e Gjykatës së Rrethit Gjyqësor në Vlorë, që dënoi me 6 muaj burg kryebashkiakun e Himarës, Bollano. "Kjo është një goditje ndaj minoritetit grek, të cilit nuk i mbetet gjë tjetër veçse të lërë vatrat e tij atërore për të shkuar si refugjat drejt Greqisë", citojmë nga kjo letër. Ajo mbyllet me bindjen se kryeministri Karamanlis do të dijë "të hedhë hapin e duhur për rritjen e performancës efektive të të drejtave të minoritetit etnik grek në Shqipëri", duke nënkuptuar kësisoj se i vetmi hap i duhur është anulimi i vizitës së tij në Tiranë.
Nderkohe sot Berisha dhe Karamanlis nënshkruajnë në Tiranë marrëveshjen aq shumë të rëndësishme, atë të kufijve detarë mes dy vendeve, vendim që u miratua të mërkurën e kaluar nga qeveria shqiptare. Këshilli i Ministrave shpërndau dje vetëm axhendën e vizitës së Karamanlisit që do të zhvillojë më 27 prill, por nuk ka asnjë informacion se cilat do të jenë takimet e datës 28 të kryeministrit grek. Gjithashtu thuhet se do të diskutohet çështja e një borxhi financiar prej rreth 41 milionë dollarë, që Shqipëria i ka Greqisë. Burime ende të pakonfirmuara theksojnë se është e mundur një vizitë e kryeministrit grek në zonat e jugut të Shqipërisë.
(d.b/BalkanWeb)
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 30, 2009 16:20:10 GMT -5
filomen "..maeby the oposite what y think " --------------------------------------------- ...when... ?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 30, 2009 16:28:21 GMT -5
If you dont know what a besa (a term that relates to a million of different things) means, dont use it. In fact, considering how one of the principal usages of besa is in guest-host relations, our treating the Ottomans and Nazi's et al, nicely would be an example of good besa, but ofcourse besa is only in regards to individual honor, its nor a collective thing. Each person gives his own besa, or the village (at its highest).
So dont speak to us about anything, we havent made any oaths with Greeks that we would help them fight anything.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Apr 30, 2009 16:54:08 GMT -5
If you dont know what a besa (a term that relates to a million of different things) means, dont use it. In fact, considering how one of the principal usages of besa is in guest-host relations, our treating the Ottomans and Nazi's et al, nicely would be an example of good besa, but ofcourse besa is only in regards to individual honor, its nor a collective thing. Each person gives his own besa, or the village (at its highest). So dont speak to us about anything, we havent made any oaths with Greeks that we would help them fight anything. Nicely put. A Greek talking about "Besa", how ironic. I guess Basil you are not familiar with the Latin saying "Timeo Danaso et ona ferentes."
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Apr 30, 2009 20:24:45 GMT -5
You guys throw the word Besa around like candy....What you forget to mention is that the besa you have is between clan members and it has absolutely nothing to do with outsiders..Just like the Hasidic Jews will not screw one another but will screw you out of your life savings in a second. We on the outside have never really witness this besa you talk off.... Albanians have earned some bad points on the international level... Do you think they have showed besa to an outsider? I don't think so...
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 1, 2009 0:02:24 GMT -5
Yet another dunce prancing around using besa here and besa there and degrading us, without the most basic knowledge of what a Besa is. A Besa is an oath, thats it, an oath given by an adult man to another person that is bound to the givers internal honor (extended to his family and furthermore his clan). Besa's are typically used among Albanians for many things: hospitality (to foreigners, which exists in an identical form in the Iliad/Odyssey as Xenia), treaty (one of the problems the Ottomans had with Albanians was that they would sign a treaty, but soon afterwards attacked the Ottomans again. For the Ottomans they were breaking the treaty, Albanians contested by saying that a Besa, the term of the treaty, was ALWAYS of limited time, it eventually expired. The samething occurred with Charlamagne when he attacked the Saxons in Germany. Its characteristic of oral coded peoples), unity (of Albanian people) against an external threat (the league of Lezhe and Prizren both had aspects of Besa in them), and blood-feud.
After that it can extend to various promises (to help you out if asked, to guide you somewhere perhaps, still characteristic of Albanians, among other traditional societies, such as an American who traveled to Jordan asked a local for directions, the local led the way for over 4 miles to help him... even though he was going the opposite way)
Now, in modern interpretations, a Besa can be honorable (hospitality) or horrifying (blood-feud). For instance, I can technically give a besa that I will kill you as a result of a blood-feud. I will then have to hunt you down and do what I said. Is that something that the west would like? Of course not. The Besa is characterized most tragically and emotionally in Sami Frasheri's play "Oath of Honor", where a man promises a widow that he will kill the murderer of her husband... and maintains the oath (Besa) even when he finds out that the man he has to kill is his own son. He keeps the oath by stabbing his only son, and then restores honor to his family by killing himself.
The Besa has nothing to do with chiefly being Albanian... since the concept of a united Albanian identity is relatively new, until now (and still to an extent) Albanians worked regionally and on a clan level, with the epicenter of an Albanian household being the kulla (akin to the Roman domus, which in ancient Greek and Albanian became simply, room: dwma/dhome). It can be extended and has been known to be extended into foreigners. For instance, a British traveller in northern Albania went into a house in search of food. All the wife had was milk, which she gave him. Later he found out that the milk was reserved for the husband, who was at work and now had no food at all for when he came home. The husband came home and apologized to the traveller for not having anything else.
The concept of Besa has been broken under the Commi period and its forceful repression of traditional Alb society.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 1, 2009 0:30:23 GMT -5
If you want to characterize Besa concept, here:
"In one village, a family killed their only sheep to give us food and in another town, a woman took us home off the street. People were really warm there and I can't think of one bad memory from Albania."
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on May 1, 2009 1:05:52 GMT -5
I have known of Albanians giving besa to Montenegrins and vice versa since Montenegrins have the same thing (called "rijec" which means "word") as it has also existed among Montenegrins and other Serbs. Milos Obilic kills Sultan Murat (during battle of Kosovo 1389) after his word was given to Serb nobility and Tsar Lazar, the Serb Ruler. Another legend tells about the treason of Vuk Branković, Serbian feudal lord and son-in-law of the Serbian Prince Lazar. According to this legend, Miloš was accused by Branković, at the eve of the Battle of Kosovo of intent to betray his lord Lazar and switch sides mid battle. The accusation was a result of alleged rivalry between the two. Branković, a nobleman of much higher rank, was intensely jealous of the reputation that Obilić enjoyed as the bravest of Serbian knights. In order to clear his name and prove his loyalty to Lazar and his country, Miloš made a solemn oath to slay the Ottoman Sultan during the battle. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo%C5%A1_Obili%C4%87#Battle_of_Kosovo
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on May 1, 2009 1:42:44 GMT -5
Obilic at the fated night
Obilic starts giving his oath (word) in 7 minutes 07 seconds there. It is given right after being accused by Brankovic (played by Montenegrin actor) that he will betray Serbs to Murat tommorow (ironic as Brankovic is the one who betrays Serbs). He states that next day he gives his word that he will kill Murat which leaves other Serb Noblemen surprised.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on May 1, 2009 13:12:01 GMT -5
Example of power of word among ancient Greeks (Hector asks Achilles to give him word and second one refuses)
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Post by leshte on May 1, 2009 13:26:00 GMT -5
Example of Besa on foreigners. Every Jew that escaped from other European countries including Greece and made it to Albania was protected and made it out alive throughout the war.
Just go in Albania and call someone i pabese and see what you get.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on May 1, 2009 13:26:53 GMT -5
For at the ceremony in which Tyndareos picked her future husband from among the suitors who came for the honor, Tyndarreos on the advice of Odysseus asked them to take an oath that whoever prevailed among them the others would come to his aid and support in case of need. Thus when Paris abducted Helen and took her to Troy, Menelaos sent emissaries all over Greece asking the princes to honor their oath. This is how the expedition against Troy acquired its pan-Hellenic character! (The writer is the author of "Ancient Greek Athletics: History, Myth and Culture" and presently is writing a play based on the myth of Prometheus.) maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2005-December/006544.html
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on May 1, 2009 14:36:00 GMT -5
When we supported Serbia when she was attacked by the barbarian West, we didn't have the support of nobody...and bravo to us. "She" was attacked bcs "She" was raping and killing innocence .... "She" was warned by many and dozens of times to stop its brutality. "She" no stop.... so BOOOOOM it went ! and you kissed "She's" Ass
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on May 1, 2009 21:33:13 GMT -5
Finally the Rex has come out of hibernation... ;D
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 1, 2009 22:02:33 GMT -5
Finally the Rex has come out of hibernation... ;D Indeed...for Rex.
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