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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 28, 2009 23:37:36 GMT -5
From an interesting short article. Knobloch, J Journal of Indo-European studies: 'Female speech' in Greek, Armenian, and Albanian Page 1: Page 2 + 3:
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 28, 2009 23:55:45 GMT -5
This crushes the notion that Albanian is a relatively late development if it contains elements in it found in Armenian (one of the earliest developed IE languages) and Classical Greek.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Apr 29, 2009 2:29:24 GMT -5
From what I know thracian was quite close to illyrian and today baltic latvian. "The Thracian language, an ancient language of Southern Balkans, belonging to the Satem group of Indo-European. This language is the most likely ancestor of modern Albanian (which is also a Satem language)... or as a descendant of Illyrian with a Daco-Thracic admixture; thus the Albanian lexis is another source."[glow=red,2,300][/glow] dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/265753
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 29, 2009 7:36:23 GMT -5
^ Albanian is classified as a Satem language, however it has borrowed heavily from Slavic, Latin, Greek and Turkish.
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Post by Duke John on Apr 29, 2009 7:49:40 GMT -5
^ Albanian is classified as a Satem language, however it has borrowed heavily from Slavic, Latin, Greek and Turkish. Blablablabla, you just hate to see this kind of things about albanians.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 29, 2009 9:26:33 GMT -5
^ Albanian is classified as a Satem language, however it has borrowed heavily from Slavic, Latin, Greek and Turkish. Blablablabla, you just hate to see this kind of things about albanians. He didn't say anything false. Albanian is a semi latin language with huge amount of foreign loanwords. Of course there is no language without many loanwords(see English) ,and it is very natural...but albanian i think is over loaned.
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Post by filomen on Apr 29, 2009 10:12:26 GMT -5
Now y must be graduatet as an Linguistic expert
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Apr 29, 2009 16:20:01 GMT -5
Blablablabla, you just hate to see this kind of things about albanians. He didn't say anything false. Albanian is a semi latin language with huge amount of foreign loanwords. Of course there is no language without many loanwords(see English) ,and it is very natural...but albanian i think is over loaned. as greek language is half Albanian-Latin and with huge of loanwords especially from Persian and Turkish. Our Language by some european linguist has classified more old than ancient greek language.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Apr 29, 2009 16:26:41 GMT -5
^ Albanian is classified as a Satem language, however it has borrowed heavily from Slavic, Latin, Greek and Turkish. First Slavic language even is not particular langauge and is new language of Indo-European Branch wich has quite alot persian and caucasian words (until 30%). You have many articles from rrusian linguist which say "Slavic language is just bastarted language of Albanian " (I have posted before here) Heavly influened Albanian language only latins until 20%, turkish words are common only about religion. But in serbian language is more common turkish influence... one of that is PAZAR (your nick) an turkish word wich mean Market.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Apr 29, 2009 16:56:45 GMT -5
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 4:52:31 GMT -5
all this conversation reminds me of Fyromians! "we dont have any evidence... and we know that all existent evidences proove that Macedonians were speaking Greek... BUT! we're sure that Alexander the Great was speaking Slavic! lol lol lol Guys.. with out any written evidence... unfortunately.... we cant have scientific results. All this conversation is about.. speculations. Speculations.. is not history!
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 2, 2009 12:19:01 GMT -5
moderatoret, ju lutem fshini postimet e shtazave. Si ky me larte...
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 12:23:38 GMT -5
"Annimals"? I'm sure the moderators will respect your educated style and your wishes.. PS. Dont ask me. Google translator..
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 9, 2009 12:31:18 GMT -5
Interesting read Toskali.
Basil,
we are dealing here with linguistic evidences. It is the only treasure left for Albanians and from where we can draw some conclusions...and in no way there is any comparison between Macedonian language (Fyrom) whatever that might be (a mix of many languages - hybrid) with Albanian one, that is unique...but I understand your reaction..."of a 40 year old man with fragile nervous system"... ;D
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on May 9, 2009 12:58:30 GMT -5
Albanian is a semi latin language with huge amount of foreign loanwords.
Latin is a semi Albanian language .....Pelasgian-Etruscan connections
foreign loan words ...yep ...we have been invaded and empired by many ....we adjust for our survival instinctiveness
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 9, 2009 15:15:41 GMT -5
Albanian isnt anymore "semi-Latin" than English is. We have approximately the same kind and length of loanwords. Italians wishing to close the link between them and Albs particularly during the Mussolini period portrayed Albanian as a language that was "almost Romanized" and thus they needed to complete it.
The reality is Albanian is still a language of its own with significant Latin vocabulary influence... very significant but it does not change the grammatical structure of the language. Outside of Latin and modern italian, foreign loanwords are not too great. Many of the loanwords have also been redundant since we had the same word in our own native language.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 9, 2009 17:28:50 GMT -5
X2
Latin doesn't stretch its influence much outside the sphere of vocabulary, and in some cases one might argue whether we're dealing with Latin loan-words or cognates of some sort. There are some of these cases too, like the word for apple, "mollë", which is disputed as either a Greek loan word or some inheritance from the pre-IE Mediterranean substratum.
Albanian has also assimilated Latin loan-words almost beyond recognition phonetically speaking, which is cool ... like shkëndi from scantilla, or fshat from fossatium.
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Post by alb12345 on May 9, 2009 18:21:30 GMT -5
Personaly i think albanian language is not a indo european language bcs all other indo european language are connected with albanian in one way or another, albanian language is proto-indo-european plus the loan words down the years latin old greek turkic etj. our language is propably the oldest in europe correct me if i am wrong.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 11, 2009 22:30:42 GMT -5
Also, one thing that has resulted in Albanian being identified as a 'semi-Latin language' is the languages grammatical proximity to Latin and Greek. This has to be understood under a proper context. Anyone who studies Greek and Latin can tell just how damn similar the two languages are. Especially in ancient Greek and even more so with Homeric Greek. No linguist claims, however, that either language derives from the other. They are both two mutually distinct Indo-European languages. Well, Albanian is also a language very similar to both, in terms of grammatic structure and in terms of vocabulary development. Compare gjuha (archaic gluha), to Greek glossa... this is something that has occurred very often. Albanian has a strong origin link with Greek, and other Anatolian languages and also similarities with Latin. These are Indo-European similarities though.
I have shown this extensively in other times.
Donnie,
I can't find Scantilla in any Latin lexicon or dictionary I have. Where did you find it? Also fossatum comes from fosso, which means to dig. Are you shure fshat comes from fossatum? It does comply but a fshat is a village, while fossatum has a more military meaning. Fshat better complies with the Latin term oppidum, which means village of the same kind.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 12, 2009 7:23:48 GMT -5
Toskali,
The derivation scantilla ==> shkëndi is from Cabej. Schramm suggested Shkoder cannot be the Albanian continuation of ancient Scodra because 'sc' ought to have given 'h'. For instance, the proto-Albanian word for 'fish bone' was supposedly 'skala', which at some stage became 'hala'. But this development was already finished when the Romans came, and so Shkoder is indeed in accordance with the phonetic laws of Albanian ... he uses Latin loan words to demonstrate, such as scopae ==> shkop, scamnum ==> shkemb and above mentioned scantilla ==> shkendi.
I don't know why the word 'scantilla' doesn't exist in your dictionaries. Weird.
Also, concerning the grammatical resemblance of Albanian with Latin; as you said, it's more an Indoeuropean heritage rather than a later (partial) Latinization of Albanian. The profound impact of Latin in Albanian remains in the lexical field, and even there you have some disputes. For instance, Cabej and others list the word 'shkop' as a Latin loan word (scopae) ... yet Vladimir Orel seems to consider it an IE cognate.
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