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Post by Teuta1975 on May 2, 2009 12:10:56 GMT -5
Teuta "But we are overall Albanians...what does TurkoAlvanos term have to do with anything? We never mentioned it...where do you see "TurkoAlvanos" Basil? In which part of which post?" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No you're not overall Albanians. Albanians were a friendly nation leaving peacefully side by side with Epirots and Macedonians (except some sheeps & horse thefts ) and never were in the enemies list for Greeks. Turkalbanians is a new kind of Albanians formed after Ottoman and Commounist eras and is exaclty the opposite. There is no need to see it written. We know. "As per Chams, we keep listening to crimes committed by Chams against Greeks and as a result they took revenge attacking an entire population...always, but always forgetting to mention why did Chams act that way! Can you Basil assume one simple reason why did Chams fight against Greeks? I expect a good answer.. " --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dont you believe that German citizens of Poland and Chezchslovakia... had their own rightfull reasons to be with the side of Germany in WW2? That does not justify them. They were citizens of a different coutnry!! not of Germany! I'm sure Roma in Greece dont feel assimilated in the Greek society. They must feel somehow a second class citizens. Does that gives them the right in a future war of Greece with... India lets say.... Roma to become allies of Indians and start attacking their Greek fellow citizens?! Before you answer have something in mind; You have a Greek minority.... that Greek minority feels they dont have their minority rights the last 50 years. They feel bad for that. They have their own reasons.. right or wrong. Thats not the point. Now...Imagine during the Kossovo war... members of these minority... forming military groups.... and going to Kossovo to help Serbian forces against Albanian forces. Even more.. imagine Serbs winning the war.. and occupy the whole of Albania... and that Greek minority start pointing fingers in members of the Albanian commounity in Himmara..... and Serbs start hanging these members as gorillas. Tell me now... what would be the outcome for the Greek minority after the end of war when Albania would be free again? Try to imagine... Albanians were considered by Greeks a friendly nation...as long as they were oppressed and as long as they didn't speak Albanian. Once they start protesting and seeking education in their own language (as it happened with Chams before Nazi) they are considered enemies...no wonder why they allied with Nazi...not to lose their identity and Grekify as opposed to Arvanites who lost their language and yet...fought against Turks for Greece...poor souls. What are they now? As per Turkoalvanos, "the new kind formed during Ottoman and comunist era", as you say, I beg to differ. It is a new kind of perception created by Greeks themselves. Yes, YOU know since you created it... There is no need for comparison between Chams and German citizens of Poland and Chezchslovakia because the point of view is different. But guess what: Germans compensated Jews... Greek minority in Albania enjoys more rights than they can handle by part of Albania. They just seek more rights by Greece I think, because there are more teachers teaching in Greek in Albania for the Greek minority than there are students! The whole point is that they take advantage and want to annex this part of Albania to Greece! Is it right? And don't worry about any war any time soon.
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 12:32:31 GMT -5
Teuta "The whole point is that they take advantage and want to annex this part of Albania to Greece! Is it right?" -------------------------------------------------------------------
You still believe that Greece a... NATO country... an OSCE country... an EU country... among the most dedicated countries of UN... a country that could struggle economically Albania during the hard years.... that tries hard to have a good economy thought scandals..... with tourism as its main industry..... has as a goal ....to grap 3 more beaches and 3 more mountains... from Albanians??!
Now do you get the problem with the Commounist era and the nationalism in Albania boosted the last years by Bush? Can you get what all these did in your minds? Do you get now what WE have to suffer until you become really free and open minded people? OMG... life sucks...
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 2, 2009 12:41:00 GMT -5
I'll tell you how Basil...just read in Albanian forum how Greece took the sea line from Albania...you'll understand! The thread is: "Harta sekrete, Greqisë i falim kufirin deri në Qeparo"; which means what Albanian newspapers have been writing these two days of the scandal accord signed in secret by our stupid Berisha and Karamalis I think where they gave to Greeks all the part of sea that had petrolium...let's hope parliament is not gonna approve it. How do you think it's been done? Due to brainwashing minds..
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 13:10:55 GMT -5
First of all Teuta... you know all the Greeks from these forums. Can you point me more than ONE Greek of these forums that wants land from Albania or says stuff like "we gonna take voreio Epiros back" and stuff like that? I can show you 50% of Albanians in these forums claiming land from Greece.... can you point me more than one? You know.. .when a governemt of a country wants to grab land.... "prepares" the minds of their citizens so as to justify that later... Now... when you see Greeks and Albanians in these forums... what comes in your mind?
Second, about the Albanian newspaper, I know very well. There is NO EVIDENCE at all in the article! I've read about it. Its the oppossition in Albania... or any nationalist cyrcles.... or even offices that we dont even know who payed for this article to be posted. The Law of the Sea... its so specific... that NONE can "grab" 1 meter! It is just some dark guys in Albania that didnt want Albania to sign the International Law of the Sea with Greece because that would destroy their Turkalbanian dreams... and Gazetta Shqiptare just plays that role..
Open your mind!!!!!!!!
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 2, 2009 13:17:47 GMT -5
First of all Teuta... you know all the Greeks from these forums. Can you point me more than ONE Greek of these forums that wants land from Albania or says stuff like "we gonna take voreio Epiros back" and stuff like that? I can show you 50% of Albanians in these forums claiming land from Greece.... can you point me more than one? You know.. .when a governemt of a country wants to grab land.... "prepares" the minds of their citizens so as to justify that later... Now... when you see Greeks and Albanians in these forums... what comes in your mind? Second, about the Albanian newspaper, I know very well. There is NO EVIDENCE at all in the article! I've read about it. Its the oppossition in Albania... or any nationalist cyrcles.... or even offices that we dont even know who payed for this article to be posted. The Law of the Sea... its so specific... that NONE can "grab" 1 meter! It is just some dark guys in Albania that didnt want Albania to sign the International Law of the Sea with Greece because that would destroy their Turkalbanian dreams... and Gazetta Shqiptare just plays that role.. Open your mind!!!!!!!! Basil, Greeks don't need to openly say that they want Epirus back...they imply it. I can't say who in particular but I can definitely say that almost all of them imply it. It is the same as saying it openly. The accord is signed and "Gazeta Shqiptare" just exposed the new secret map. Let's see how investigation goes; whether is true or just a conspiracy. I hope the second one. So far, the part that presumably signed the accord hasn't denied it and this makes me suspicious and sad.
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Post by albquietman on May 2, 2009 13:34:34 GMT -5
This is the article in albanian from Gazeta Shqiptare...if it's true, it is disturbing news...nonalbanians can use Google Translator: Kufiri, qeveria refuzoi ekspertizen italianeTedi BlushiQeveria shqiptare ka refuzuar ekspertizën falas që i ka ofruar Italia gjatë ne gociatave të saj me Athinën zyrtare për përcaktimin e vijës së re kufitare në det mes dy shteteve. Lajmi është bërë publik dje për “Gazeta Shqiptare” nga burime zyrtare pranë Ministrisë sonë të Mbrojtjes. Mësohet se qeveria italiane nëpërmjet ambasadës sonë në Romë, i ka shprehur gatishmërinë maksimale Ministrisë sonë të Jashtme për ta ndihmuar gratis Shqipërinë jo vetëm me mjete, por edhe me ekspertë të saj gjatë këtij procesi. Por, përgjigjja që i është kthyer nga Tirana ka qenë negative. Refuzimi i ekspertizës falas italiane mësohet se ka qenë plotësim i kushtit të vënë nga pala greke, që në mënyrë kategorike nuk ka pranuar që Shqipëria të ndihmohej në këtë proces nga një palë e tretë. Ndërkohë që “preteksti” i qeverisë shqiptare për refuzimin e ekspertizës falas italiane ka qenë sipas të njëjtave burime se, “Shqipëria disponon mjetet dhe ekspertizën e duhur”. Pika tresheShqipëria rrezikon të futet në një “konflikt” për kufijtë detarë edhe me Italinë. Shkak mendohet të shpërbejë pikërisht pika fundore e kufirit të ri detar shqiptaro-grek me numrin 150. Drejtoresha e çështjeve juridike në Ministrinë tonë të Jashtme, Ledia Hysi pohoi dy ditë më parë se kjo pikë fundore, është në juridiksion edhe të shtetit italian. Kjo do të thotë se për miratimin e kësaj pike në marrëveshjen shqiptaro-greke duhet të ishte marrë “OK” edhe i Italisë, që në të vërtetë nuk ka ndodhur. Pasi në rastin konkret ka një marrëveshje dy dhe jo trepalëshe. “Kjo është pika në det ku juridiksioni i të tria shteteve bashkohet, Italisë, Shqipërisë dhe Greqisë dhe kjo është pika që do të përcaktohet nga një komision trepalësh”, - u shpreh Hysi për mediat. DhurimiQeveria shqiptare i ka dhuruar Greqisë rreth 225 km2 sipërfaqe ujore. Me ndihmën e një eksperti topograf, “Gazeta Shqiptare” ka arritur të zbardhë pak ditë më parë faktin tronditës që fshihet në marrëveshjen shqiptaro-greke “Për delimitimin e zonave përkatëse të shelfit kontinental dhe zonave të tjera detare që përkasin në bazë të së drejtës ndërkombëtare”. Vija e re kufitare që ndan ujërat territoriale të dy shteteve e që përbëhet nga 150 pika, rezulton sipas ekspertit topograf, se ka prirjen për t’u futur në drejtim të Karaburunit, pra në dëm të Shqipërisë, me afërsisht 11 km. “Trekëndëshi” i dhuruar palës greke fillon nga pika 120 e vijës kufitare. Sipas matjeve të kryera rezulton se, pika e fundme e vijës kufitare të ujërave territoriale me numër 150 është spostuar në drejtim të ujërave shqiptare me rreth 30 km më tej ose e kthyer në milje detare, me rreth 16 milje. Nga pikëpamja strategjike detare, sikundër mund të shihet në hartë edhe me sy të lirë, figuron se pika e fundit e vijës kufitare ndodhet ekzaktësisht në vijë paralele me Kepin e Gjuhëzës në Gjirin e Karaburunit. Sqarojmë se Kepi i Gjuhëzës është pika tokësore e shtetit shqiptar më e fundit në det.
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 13:35:40 GMT -5
Teuta "Greeks don't need to openly say that they want Epirus back...they imply it. I can't say who in particular but I can definitely say that almost all of them imply it. It is the same as saying it openly" ------------------------------------------------------------------ Have you ever thought... that "implying it"... is something they learned you to see... since you cannot see it in any other way? Think of that... "imply" is a very subjective term.... and easy to be manipulated.. On the other hand.. openly say it is very objective.... Also.. have you ever thought that Greeks dont say they want it back..... its because maybe they dont want it back? Its a tottaly different thing to feel close to Greeks there... and care for your minority... and tottaly different thing to want the land. I care for the Greek minority and Greek diaspora all over the world. I will fight for them even with Tasmanians. But... believe me... I dont want any land in Tasmania About reading a newspaper... learn to see behind the articles. Learn why an article is being posted.. and who posted it... Real life is not just simple. Since you live in USA... I'm sure you know now that the 1 million verified articles about Sadams nuclear program in ALL the famous American newspapers........... prooved to be fraud? But.. who remembers it now. The invation in Iraq was done and it is finished.. right You have to learn to live in a fake democracy like it is ours...and when I say ours.. I mean all the western world.
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 2, 2009 13:40:03 GMT -5
AlbQ, I hope it won't be acknowledged since it's a two part accord and not three-part as it should be (Italians can re-claim it - I would praise them for that)...whose fault is it? Only Greeks? I think Albanians mostly, but we don't know all details ...what kind of pressure did Greeks put under Albanian Government that they signed it! It is indeed disturbing...let's see what the reaction of Italy will be!
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 13:41:37 GMT -5
Before you get any ideas.... learn about that journalist Tedi Blushi and his role in life in political life of Albania. Learn about the role of Gazetta Shqiptare in politics... That is what I do...
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 2, 2009 13:43:37 GMT -5
Basil,
in Albania we have a custom: if the news is not true the other part comes in a press conference and denies it. It's not happening so far and every day more (From the Ministry of Defense) are coming new facts and disturbing news of the fact been true! They just didn't want it to be exposed before the elections took place. Now I think Berisha definitely lost his credibility (as if he didn't so far)
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 13:46:09 GMT -5
We'll see.....
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Post by albquietman on May 2, 2009 13:54:02 GMT -5
That's true, we don't know all the details Teuta. All we know is whatever that article says.
Basil, whoever is Tedi Blushi, I don't think any journalist would write such an article where three countries are involved. Is not about some celebrity gossips, but about politics, and politics are more of a serious matter than celebrities, so I believe that there is some truth there, and even that its disturbing. We're not blaming you greeks for that, but our politicians that trade our country for money and political favors...I hope it's not true, but as you said, we'll see...
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 2, 2009 13:58:42 GMT -5
Yes AlbQ, if it were only a gossip of Tedi Blushi he could go to prison for that and he is not stupid; he knows it. That is why it seems to be more scary than I thought...today the sea, tomorrow some mountains, after tomorrow some land...what is left?
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Post by albquietman on May 2, 2009 14:03:09 GMT -5
Actually Teuta, if it were for the politicians in Albania, they would sell everything and anything...that's the way it is in small countries like Albania, and it's sad just to think about, let alone seeing that in reality, but I hope that they will be some smart and sensitive people in Albania strong enough to stop such things...
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 14:07:40 GMT -5
Journalists dont go to prison for ANY reason! They have more power even from politicians! That gives them the right to get paid from "unofficial sources". In Greece... I've read once by an anynomymous source that almost 50% of the big journalits get paid. Other from CIA other from Russians other only God knows from who... They had property ... 100 times more they could excuse as big journalists... You will learn... you will learn.....
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Post by Alb_Korcar on May 2, 2009 14:08:18 GMT -5
as someone with part lab and part cham heritage this makes me angry...si nuk doli nje nga Vlora ose laberia tia hedhi trute ne ere Saliut me shoke? Salok Berisha would sell all of south Albania to the Greeks as long as they pay him drachmas and keep moving his clan to Tirana...as long as his clan is happy he does not give a shit....it was his fault the Italians drowned that ship full of Albanians from Vlora...his fault 97 happened..fuck Sali Berisha and fuck all his sympathizers if he continues this shit then i fully support leaders who think like Insomniac or i paharuari xhaxhi Enver to be in charge of Albania.
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 14:09:40 GMT -5
Also...dont forget that we speak about Greece... not Germany or UK or Russia! Greece is a very small country to dare to take some land from a deal without other big boys giving the ok.
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Post by Teuta1975 on May 2, 2009 14:09:51 GMT -5
I wish it were so...if it's true is only fake news I will forgive those journalists.
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Post by Kassandros on May 2, 2009 14:11:32 GMT -5
alb_Korcar... do me a favor; dont be the first victim of Tedi Blushi... wait... see... analyze... and then get angry...
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Post by Arxileas on May 2, 2009 18:51:28 GMT -5
^ This rumour which started I believe from the Fyromian news websites such as makfaxsnuts.coma, as for it’s authenticity doubt it, like basili says wait and see ?
I do know that the Albanian prime minister was on Karamanlis’s leash on the Greek minorities and other issues, Conform to the E.U standards of human rights and dignity for membership. It was said Berisha came out a new man "shaken and little stired"after some talks...
Greece isn’t interested in extra lands but respect her people from which their brothers feed your starving bellies...
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