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Post by tripwire on Mar 5, 2008 20:59:37 GMT -5
Bulgaria MP: Macedonia Was, and Is Bulgarian
5 March 2008, Wednesday
The leader of the VMRO party Krasimir Karakachanov declared in Bulgarian parliament Wednesday that "Macedonia was and is Bulgarian". Photo by Yuliana Nikolova (Sofia Photo Agency) | buy photo | The leader of the VMRO party Krasimir Karakachanov presented in parliament Wednesday a protest declaration regarding the repressive measures against citizens of the Republic of Macedonia who declare themselves Bulgarian.
"A country which does not follow the European standards, and which persecutes its citizens with Bulgarian self-consciousness, has no place in the European Union", the VMRO declaration reads.
MP Karakachanov called upon the key state institutions - the President, the Parliament, and the Council of Ministers - to adopt this position.
Karakachanov said the protest declaration was triggered by the recent case in the Macedonian town of Veles, where the local police filed a suit against the Bulgarian citizen Dragi Karev for building in his own yard a bust of Todor Alexandrov, a famous Bulgarian revolutionary hero from Macedonia.
"In the recent months the treatment of Macedonian citizens, which declare themselves Bulgarian, is taking very ugly and antidemocratic forms", the declaration concludes.
Karakachanov ended his speech with the words: "Maceonian was and is Bulgarian, long live Bulgaria".
The VMRO political party that he chairs is the successor of the Internal Macedonian and Thracian Revolutionary Organization, founded in 1893.
Is Macedonia about to break up and divided between 3 different nations, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece? Looks like it.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 5, 2008 21:14:34 GMT -5
^ if it gets divided albania should get 0%
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Post by tripwire on Mar 5, 2008 21:40:08 GMT -5
hehehe..don't be so bitter Novi. That govt is choosing this road to self destruction, just like Belgrade is.
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Post by pagane on Mar 6, 2008 4:16:27 GMT -5
This is becoming really pathetic and annoying. We should cut any help we are providing, close our roads, ports and markets for their goods and give them a remarkable slap as a whole. No more words are needed, they are not sensible people. Time for the rod, not the carrot.
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Post by Ivanov on Mar 6, 2008 12:51:47 GMT -5
The Serbo-Fyromian authorities went too far. The gathering of several hundred Bulgarians from Macedonia, who openly declared they are repressed, and the 2-3 Bulgarian flags scared them to death. Considering the fact that the people of Fyrom as a whole have a positive attitude to Bulgaria, it is difficult to explain such a reaction of the authorities, which puts under serious risk their NATO invitation. The old repression structures controlled by Serbs and Serbian janissaries are still very active. The medias the economy, the police, and the authorities are still under their control. Their major objective is the repressions against the Bulgarians. This is the only explanations why the memorial of Todor Alexandrov was so brutally destroyed. And why the memorial of Mara Buneva was burned last year. These two Macedonians had 1 thing in common - they fought against the Serbian occupation after 1913 and killed Serbian occupators. Their commemoration by the Bulgarians from Fyrom drives the Serbian janissaries mad. So far, only the Albanian parties in Fyrom opposed these shameful desecrations. These state supported hostile acts require immediate reaction by our Government: 1. Bulgaria must veto on the Fyrom's NATO membership. 2. Bulgaria must recognize immediately the independence of Kosova. macedonia-history.blogspot.com/2006/11/blog-post.htmlmembers.tripod.com/~HR_Macedonia/hr_en.htm#iim
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Post by bb681 on Mar 6, 2008 13:11:16 GMT -5
I dont wanna point to the Serbs because I have personally not seen an evidence of how many of them could be involved in this at present but its for sure that the (local) people behind this strong anti-bulgarism are mostly officials that havent retired after the place broke from Yugoslavia and are still with their old understanding of what the foreign policy towards BG should be.
Its true though that its unpleasant that the two "troublesome" memorials are of Bulgarians that aimed their efforts not vs certain Vardar based people but vs people that were definitely Serbs. One explanation though could be that the FYROM folk just doesnt know what Mara Buneva and Todor Alexandrov did, and just target by vaguely knowing them for being Bulgarians.
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Post by Ivanov on Mar 6, 2008 13:33:10 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 6, 2008 21:32:10 GMT -5
"Bulgaria must recognize immediately the independence of Kosova."
Do you think by recognising this province will do Bulgaria any good?.
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Post by pagane on Mar 7, 2008 2:39:43 GMT -5
Not recognizing it won't do any good either. As a matter of fact, I think that in a short period, when emotions settle down, even Serbs will realize there is nothing they can do. This has been practically another state before this independence stuff. I personally don't agree with the independence but you Serbs managed to get it all wrong there in a series of unwise moves starting with the actions of this definite idiot Milosevic.
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Post by Ivanov on Mar 7, 2008 5:03:03 GMT -5
Yes, It will be good, It will help many Bulgarians see the real face of Serbia.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 7, 2008 21:56:05 GMT -5
"Not recognizing it won't do any good either"
Remember Bulgaria has a big turkish minority and turkey is next door with a very large population of 70million, whereas Bulgaria has only 8million. I'm sure Russia would help, but becareful and think outside your square, l know partly your attitude is of bitterness towards the serbs.
"As a matter of fact, I think that in a short period, when emotions settle down, even Serbs will realize there is nothing they can do."
Its hasn't been settled and it will never be settled, one rogue state has decided to go off on its own and defiance against the UN and its resolutions with a couple of its suck up friends 20 odd recognitions and no UN seat will do nothing.
"This has been practically another state before this independence stuff. I personally don't agree with the independence but you Serbs managed to get it all wrong there in a series of unwise moves starting with the actions of this definite idiot Milosevic."
I agree Milosevic was not perfect, he was an opportunist!. What was he supposed to do when the KLA provoke, just sit back and let them kill off police and civilians.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 7, 2008 21:57:25 GMT -5
"Yes, It will be good, It will help many Bulgarians see the real face of Serbia."
Think logically not emotionally.
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Post by bb681 on Mar 8, 2008 9:13:41 GMT -5
"Remember Bulgaria has a big turkish minority and turkey is next door with a very large population of 70million, whereas Bulgaria has only 8million. I'm sure Russia would help, but becareful and think outside your square, l know partly your attitude is of bitterness towards the serbs. "
Yes and Greece has a bit over 10 mill and Romania has over 20...so? I wouldnt go as far as saying "never" but the dooms-day idea of the Turkish minority suddenly flipping out and try to work towards some sort of separatism any time soon is very unlikely for various reasons that werent present to Serbia and Albania over Kosovo.
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Post by Ivanov on Mar 8, 2008 16:20:56 GMT -5
The same refers to the Serbs. We were in the Serbian situation in 1919, and it was worse. You have to give up only land. We had to leave more than 1 million of our brothers in the hands of butchers, just because the great powers wanted so. It bled and it is still bleeding. Our country was almost destroyed. But we learned our lesson - don't try to play or mess with the Powers of the day. We learned it the hard way. Now, you the Serbs learn it the same way, or even worse, because you don't seem to give up. You must gather what has remained, take your share of Bosnia and head to the EU.
Russia didn't help you, I doubt they will help us, though they may want to protect their investments(pipelines). If Turkey wants to take territory from us, they will try regardless of the situation with Kosovo, like they did with Cyprus. Right now USA is playing its dirty games, you are most convenient victim and do your best to facilitate them.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 8, 2008 18:10:00 GMT -5
"Yes and Greece has a bit over 10 mill and Romania has over 20...so? I wouldnt go as far as saying "never" but the dooms-day idea of the Turkish minority suddenly flipping out and try to work towards some sort of separatism any time soon is very unlikely for various reasons that werent present to Serbia and Albania over Kosovo."
Yes but Turkey is your neighbour with 70 million people. The kosovo issue may infact give reasons for minorities now. I got a feeling the Turkish minority won't do anything now, but who knows years down the track?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 8, 2008 18:15:01 GMT -5
"The same refers to the Serbs. We were in the Serbian situation in 1919, and it was worse. You have to give up only land. We had to leave more than 1 million of our brothers in the hands of butchers, just because the great powers wanted so. It bled and it is still bleeding. Our country was almost destroyed. But we learned our lesson - don't try to play or mess with the Powers of the day. We learned it the hard way. Now, you the Serbs learn it the same way, or even worse, because you don't seem to give up. You must gather what has remained, take your share of Bosnia and head to the EU."
Butchers please, now your spinning it. So you think vardar and eastern serbia was our punishment for kosovo just like northern serbia for hungary?. Why should serbia give up kosovo?. It never will, frankly.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Mar 9, 2008 1:28:17 GMT -5
So you think vardar serbia was our punishment for kosovo What the f..k is this? U are talking about southwest Bulgaria u managed to brainwash into ancient Greeks?
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Post by bb681 on Mar 9, 2008 9:37:27 GMT -5
"Yes but Turkey is your neighbour with 70 million people. The kosovo issue may infact give reasons for minorities now. I got a feeling the Turkish minority won't do anything now, but who knows years down the track?"
These 70 million are in Turkey and that figure doesnt matter. As mentioned, there are plenty of factors that do not make the situation any similar to Kosovo. I might miss mentioning some but these are that Turks have their own political institution (whether it properly serves the interest of its electorate is questionable but same applies to the rest of the parties), the sub-regions with ethnic Turks being more as % than the Bulgarians are few and scattered and none of those even border Turkey itself. More importantly, despite all the occupational fuss, Bulgaria and Turkey have fairly decent relations(in the context of the Balkans) while the Bulgarian Turks themselves would not be interested in a separation that would lose them their EU citizenship. Internationally, Russia may not support but NATO/the US is not targetting us either and we are in fact part of the organisation. In addition, unlike Hungarians in Romania, Basques in Spain or Kosovans in Serbia, Turkish separatism has never been on the agenda and officially mentioned as short or long term possibility. It only exists as a doomsday hypothesis of Bulgarian nationalists that generally want to get rid of all minorities for different reasons.
So, again, I would never say never but we are yet to even see anything on this case scenario in reality and it is therefore not the main reason for the government to hesitate about recognising Kosovo.
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Post by terroreign on Mar 10, 2008 16:53:35 GMT -5
Serbs are to blame!
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Post by srbobran on Mar 10, 2008 22:01:34 GMT -5
If Bulgaria recognizes Kosovo, we should lend our full recognition and support of their Turkish community.
1. Apparently, it is the Serbs who managed to "convert" these people despite all of these "strong Bulgarian feelings" in the local populace. They weren't so strong if it took such little effort on our behalf; most of the propaganda was spread during the Communist era and not during the brief Serbian rule in Vardarska.
2. Our King was prepared to give the eastern portion of Vardar to Bulgaria but it was your own fault he didn't as it was Bulgarian assassins that killed the King and prevented the event from ever taking place.
3. Serbs have a rightful claim to the northern and western areas of what is now FYROM as evidenced by usage of the Slava as well as other cultural similarities.
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