|
Post by aaayyy on May 12, 2009 15:23:30 GMT -5
WWI?
IMHO two major events - 1) Bosnia became AH protectorate in 1878 2) Annexation of Bosnia by AH in 1908
destabilized Balkan fatally and were hidden reasons of WWI.
Your thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by fazlinho on May 12, 2009 15:49:56 GMT -5
My, sincere, thoughts are that it gave prosperity to Bosnia (you just need a very quick look of all it's major cities) and what destabilized Balkans fatally were Serbian expansionist ideals.
I don't see how AH destabilized the Balkans, and I really mean it.
|
|
|
Post by tito on May 12, 2009 15:51:13 GMT -5
WWI? IMHO two major events - 1) Bosnia became AH protectorate in 1878 2) Annexation of Bosnia by AH in 1908 destabilized Balkan fatally and were hidden reasons of WWI. Your thoughts? AH settled the issue with the Ottoman empire in 1909 by paying them in gold. It was the serb expansionists(supported by Russia) who destabilized the Balkans.
|
|
|
Post by soko on May 12, 2009 16:29:24 GMT -5
WWI? IMHO two major events - 1) Bosnia became AH protectorate in 1878 2) Annexation of Bosnia by AH in 1908 destabilized Balkan fatally and were hidden reasons of WWI. Your thoughts? the reason for ww1, was that imperialist powers, such as UK, France, UH, Russiam Empire, Germany had a dick waving contest about who was to oppress brown people, and the smaller peoples of europe... in the end a lot of good people, each with their own dreams and hopes got wasted, whilst generals were fucking their Mistresses on a cozy distance from the front lines, and shot anyone who refused to obey their insane suicidal orders... as for the balkans, the reason that it is a shiithole... is that outside powers put us up against each other... in this particular instance... Austria used Bosniaks and Croats as cannon fodder against the Serbs, whilst England and in part Russia used Serbs as cannon Fodder to stop the Austrians and Germans getting a land link to the Ottoman Empire, and access to the mediterianian... all in all, south slavs, get fucked over by having "patriotic" leaders who are used by great powers.. and people get wasted...
|
|
|
Post by srbobran on May 12, 2009 17:36:43 GMT -5
Oh please,Serbian expansionism? There were large Serbian minorities in AH (Bosnia was at this time majority Orthodox Serbian by the way). Why the hell wouldn't we want to liberate our Serbs who continued to live under foreign yoke?
The fact of the matter is that it was the Austrians who deprived us of our conquests in Albania and it was they who saw us as a threat to their dominance over the Balkans. Take the Pig War for example, as soon as Serbia tried to free herself from Hapsburg economic dependence, they blockaded us. They wanted to be the masters of the Balkans and in the end, it was THEY who fired the first shots and it was THEY who declared war on us. Thus, the war was their fault.
|
|
|
Post by tito on May 12, 2009 18:37:49 GMT -5
Oh please,Serbian expansionism? There were large Serbian minorities in AH ( Bosnia was at this time majority Orthodox Serbian by the way). Why the hell wouldn't we want to liberate our Serbs who continued to live under foreign yoke? Bosnia was NEVER majority Orthodox or Serbian in any way, that is also the answer to your question and the main problem with Serbian expansionism at cost of others: The fact of the matter is that it was the Austrians who deprived us of our conquests in Albania..
|
|
|
Post by malsor4life on May 12, 2009 19:21:54 GMT -5
Haha First he says 'serbian expansionism ?' then says 'conquests in Albania'. Duhh..lol.
|
|
|
Post by soko on May 12, 2009 19:43:12 GMT -5
Vienna is a cool place. Austirans know how to eat.............................
|
|
|
Post by fazlinho on May 13, 2009 2:28:52 GMT -5
Oh please,Serbian expansionism? There were large Serbian minorities in AH (Bosnia was at this time majority Orthodox Serbian by the way). According to the 1910 population census there were 1,898,044 citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina: Type Description Serb Orthodox Christians 825,918 (43.49%) Sunni Muslims 612,137 (32.25%) Catholics 434,061 (22.87%) others 26,428 (1.39%) Why do Serbs always have to liberate and wage wars?? Why can Italians, Germans, Hungarians, Bosniaks live in different states having no problems with their ethnicity but Serbs have to invade other countries where they are a minority?? Why didn't we invade Sandzak to liberate other Bosniaks? First in 1911 Serbs try to kill the emperor himself, and than they manage to kill the heir to the throne along with his son and his pregnant wife and it's Austrians who fired the first shots? What should they have done, give you perhaps also Vienna as a gift? They were reluctant in taking Bosnia's slavs, you really think they wanted to incorporate Serbia into their Empire?
|
|
Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
|
Post by Trazi Vise on May 13, 2009 4:06:54 GMT -5
Yes and no, they used Bosnia as a half way point. The Serbs wanted it having support of outside influences. The English and Russians were pushing the Serbs, so you cannot only blame them as the Bosnians always seem to do nazalost.
|
|
|
Post by fazlinho on May 13, 2009 4:55:03 GMT -5
Yes and no, they used Bosnia as a half way point. The Serbs wanted it having support of outside influences. Bosnia was given to AH by The English and Russians were pushing the Serbs, so you cannot only blame them as the Bosnians always seem to do nazalost. Bosnia was given to AH with both England's and Russia's consent. I don't understand this apologetic bs, It's not like Serbian claims towards Bosnia were invented in Russia nore by Russians, they were there since almost a century and what Princip did was the highest manifestation of it. Not even Serbs ever argued how they were "driven by Russians" actually they are happy to point out how they really wanted Bosnia to become a part of Serbia so I really don't understand if even they agree on this
|
|
Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
|
Post by Trazi Vise on May 13, 2009 5:05:46 GMT -5
Of course it was all consented, because they knew what would happen after. You're not that stupid mr.
|
|
|
Post by fazlinho on May 13, 2009 5:30:02 GMT -5
Of course it was all consented, because they knew what would happen after. You're not that stupid mr. They knew what? That they'd get ass wipped by Germany and AH as they had been? I don't think I'm the stupid one here.
|
|
|
Post by SKORIC on May 13, 2009 5:50:13 GMT -5
In part one of this documentry you can see Austrian officials were pressing for war against Serbia atleast 20 times before the assasignation took place. The assasignation was finally the perfect excuse. You can also see how the locals in Sarajevo ransacked everything Serbian after it took place. Bunch of puppets lol
|
|
|
Post by SKORIC on May 13, 2009 5:54:11 GMT -5
True. Kinda like that crazy muslim who killed the couple at that Serb wedding before the war in Bosnia. What did you expect the Serbs to do? Give you perhaps Belgrade as a gift??
|
|
|
Post by fazlinho on May 13, 2009 6:49:17 GMT -5
Sure, let's agree AH was dying for a war against Serbia, Serbs surely gave them a perfect excuse trying to kill the emperor himself. At least we agree the assassination was the motive for the war, I wasn't saying anything else. It's comments like Austria started the shit first which made me laugh. I see more Orthodoxs as puppets who died for an ideal of another country. A puppet is someone who executes orders of someone else, when AH developed Bosnia so much and gave us so much freedom, it was a spontanous reaction, not an order You mean after orthodoxs started a war destroying a non-orthodox village, started shooting at mosques and proclaimed an orthodox republic? I didn't expect them to do anything as a reaction, they already had started the killings and that was the unfortunate and barbaric reaction, thank God in our case not planned by any politician nor military personal, just a thug who has been condemned.
|
|
|
Post by SKORIC on May 13, 2009 7:55:32 GMT -5
I was making a sarcastic joke with the wedding murders but its funny though that you say Serbs committed these massacres (which i agree they did) but Austrians "whooped their asses" when talking about WW1. When as you can see in that doco they hung/ killed/raped so many of our civilians/women/children it would be like me saying we whooped your asses in whichever village in the 90's. Stop with the double standards Faz it really hurts my feelings lol. And the assasinations werent a declaration of war by Serbia as a whole, our King didnt authorise it. Sure there were some in the govt who supported it but it wasnt autherised by the whole govt itself. It was obvious the Austrians were itching for a war especially after giving the insulting ultimatum that they knew we wouldnt agree to. Which was after they knew for sure that they had the backing of Germany.
Which other country? England? When a country is invaded you fight for yourselves first and foremost. Its true that Serbs served a purpous for england by blocking the way towards the ottomans but that was not the primary reason Serbs fought in the war. Even if England didnt have interests in it Austria still would have invaded and the orthodox's (lol) would have still fought for their own country.
A spontanious reaction is destroying every Serb house/shop/church and 200 Serbs being killed in Sarajevo alone (not including rest of Bosnia) because of the actions of one man or one group? Ok.
It was a spontanious reaction.
|
|
|
Post by soko on May 13, 2009 9:20:37 GMT -5
As far as I remember, it was the British who used Gavrilo who was a member of a pan-slavic organization, to assassinate Ferdinand.. Austria was going to attack Serbia no matter what, but this was a good excuse... As for that celo killed that wedding, that was just a one murder in a series of political SDS-SDA-HDZ murders that took place in the early nineties by paramilitaries. Serbia was going to support an ethnically clean serb republic regardless of this, and the RS was being set up even before Bosnia proclaimed Independence from what remained of yugoslavia... both these incidents are just cases where you must find an excuse to justify your policies, to make them seem more noble.. in the end loads of serbs got wasted in the interest of england, who wanted this war as well.. and a good deal of Bosnians and Croats who were conscripted into the Austrian army.. i dont see what the arguing is about... lol.. we both got fucked over by foreign powers
|
|
|
Post by SKORIC on May 13, 2009 9:30:20 GMT -5
Maybe. But that doesnt mean that the normal Serbian soldiers during the war fought for the English cause. The way they saw it an empire was comming down on them and they needed to defend their country. They didnt know the politics behind it.
Can you get me more info on that Gavrilo-British thing?
Exactly.
Yeh. I was being sarcastic with that comment, since Austria was going to invade regardless of the Princip assasination. Just like the war in Bosnia was going to happen regardless of that wedding murder.
|
|
|
Post by soko on May 13, 2009 9:40:31 GMT -5
well yes, but the average soldier of any war does not understand the politics behind it, if he did chances are he would revolt or desert.. just saying that the first world war should just be a lesson to the balkans, well should have been, that we just get used by great powers, and for some reason we are not smart enough to see this.... no, I am to lazy... had something to do with that gavrilo was member of mlada bosna/black hand what ever, that was supported by serbian intelligence, that was guided by the british... dont remember where i read it... if i come across it, ill post it... anyways.. ok, i hate the SHS, and what came after ww1, but in the attack on ferdinand there were also bosniaks and croats, they were pan-slavists, even if they just got used by serbia and the brits... so don't see what the argument was about, this assasination and the Partizans in ww2, as well as some few ABiH units before 93 are the only times we have not killed each other, dont get why there is a serbo-bosniak argument in this thread
|
|