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Post by SKORIC on May 16, 2009 14:48:57 GMT -5
Bosnian Serbs were happy that the Turks were out. Thats all that mattered to them at the time i think. Plus in Serbia the Obrenovic dynasty was pro-Austrian, Austria pretty much used them to invade Bulgaria in 1885 for no reason. Then Karadjordjevic dynasty came to power, Austria imposed the customs blockade on Serbia (1906-1909) and Austria officially annexed Bosnia. This all contributed to Serbs from both Serbia and Bosnia disliking the Vienna govt. Plus it must have been the little things that we cant read in the books. Quotes like these from Princep "I am the son of peasants and I know what is happening in the villages. That is why I wanted to take revenge, and I regret nothing." have to count for something. We will never know every Serb or Boslim seljaks own personal experiences during that time. btw Boslims were in Princips group too dont forget.. you cant just have pan-slavism ideology alone to go to such extreme lengths, its the bad experiences in your life that does it.
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Post by fazlinho on May 16, 2009 14:55:15 GMT -5
Please Skoric, he killed a pregnant woman for fuck's sake if you do something horrible like that it doesn't mean there must be a reason for it. He was driven by an ideology and that's it.
And there was only one Bosniak among other 15 Vlachs. So much about our contribution to such an ideology.
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Post by SKORIC on May 16, 2009 15:02:29 GMT -5
We wouldnt even know who Gavrilo was if his Boslim friend wasnt such a pussy Gavrilo was buying a sandwich at a shop when he saw the Archdukes car take a wrong turn into his street. It was all by chance that we are even speaking of his name right now haha Muhamed Mehmedbašiæ was a Bosniak revolutionary born in Bosnia and Herzegovina. A member of Bosnia's Muslim nobility, Mehmedbašiæ joined the Mlada Bosna secret society and in 1914 was chosen to assassinate General Oskar Potiorek, Governor of the Austrian provinces of Bosnia-Herzegovina, with a poisoned dagger. After one failed attempt, Mehmedbašiæ was recruited by Danilo Iliæ to join the plot to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand.[1] On Sunday, June 28, 1914, the Archduke and his wife, Sophie Chotek, arrived in Sarajevo by train. General Oskar Potiorek, Governor of the Austrian provinces of Bosnia-Herzegovina, was waiting to take the royal party to the Tow for the official reception. Seven assassins lined the route. They were spaced out along the Appel Quay, each one had been instructed to try and kill Franz Ferdinand when the royal car reached his position. The first conspirator on the route to see the royal car was Muhamed Mehmedbašiæ. Standing by the Austro-Hungarian Bank, Mehmedbašiæ lost his nerve and allowed the car pass without taking action. Mehmedbašiæ later said that a policeman was standing behind him and feared he would be arrested before he had a chance to throw his bomb.Later that day the Archduke and his wife were assassinated by Gavrilo Princip. Princip and Nedeljko Èabrinoviæ were captured and interrogated by the police. They eventually gave the names of their fellow conspirators. Mehmedbašiæ managed to escape to Serbia but Danilo Iliæ, Veljko Èubriloviæ, Vaso Èubriloviæ, Cvjetko Popoviæ and Miško Jovanoviæ were arrested and charged with treason and murder. After the First World War Mehmedbašiæ returned to Sarajevo and in 1919 was pardoned for his role in the assassination. Muhamed Mehmedbašiæ was killed by Ustashe, in Sarajevo, on May 29, 1943, during the Second World War. By other sources he died from typhus in 1943.
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Post by aaayyy on May 16, 2009 15:54:37 GMT -5
fazlinho, How comes you can't get it? I tried to explain several times OK, let's try one more time: AH agreed on it's own neutrality in Russian-Turkish war, it means AH promised not to support Turkey against Russia for AH's right of occupying BiH.
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Post by aaayyy on May 16, 2009 16:10:08 GMT -5
As far as I know YU law/constitution didn't specify how the lands should be distributed in case of dissolution of YU. It was pointed out that separation of YU republic/people was possible only with mutual agreement of all the other republics. Also as far as I know according to YU/Bosnia constitution Bosnia was a republic of 3 peoples - Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats. Not all of them wanted to separate from YU.
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Post by aaayyy on May 16, 2009 16:25:51 GMT -5
Tito,
Frankly speaking I thought your question (as to why can't we ignore 1/2 - 1/3 of population) was rhetorical.
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Post by tito on May 16, 2009 17:17:16 GMT -5
Tito, Frankly speaking I thought your question (as to why can't we ignore 1/2 - 1/3 of population) was rhetorical. You have still not answered the question.
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Post by aaayyy on May 16, 2009 17:29:34 GMT -5
OK, you have persuaded me - I agree to ignore Bosniaks in Bosnia
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Post by tito on May 16, 2009 17:35:37 GMT -5
My question was:
Why is it so hard for you to answer it?
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Post by vinjak on May 16, 2009 17:55:00 GMT -5
I want you to understand that you can't simply ignore opinions and views of 1/3 - 1/2 Bosnian population. Why not? All of us have learned "why Not" and what happens when you do...wiseazz.
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Post by tito on May 16, 2009 18:08:56 GMT -5
It works fine in Montenegro, it will work in Bosnia too because there is no longer a Serbian expansionist army around that can force Belgrade’s fascist ideals upon the free will of the Bosnian people.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on May 16, 2009 18:14:43 GMT -5
All of us have learned "why Not" and what happens when you do...wiseazz. In other words, they get fuc.ked up!
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Post by soko on May 16, 2009 19:04:11 GMT -5
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Post by soko on May 16, 2009 19:15:51 GMT -5
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Post by tito on May 16, 2009 20:15:34 GMT -5
All of us have learned "why Not" and what happens when you do...wiseazz. In other words, they get fuc.ked up! a koga ste vi to fuk up, lol... malo morgen... 1910 population census in BiH: Orthodox Christians 43,49%. 4 years later Serbian expansionists decided to "fuk up" the majority in BiH by starting the first world war which left BiH without a total figure of 360 000 citizens or 19% of its population. In war camps and prisons 320 000 Bosnians and Herzegovinians perished, of whom 200 000 were Orthodox Christians. In 1941 there was 1,848,000 Orthodox Christians living in BiH and Croatia. Today thier total numer is down at 1.2 million in BiH and less then 200 000 in Croatia. During the same period Bosniak and Croat numbers have incresed from 4,8 million to around 6,5 million in BiH and Croatia. Serb expansionists also claimed that Macedonia was somehow theirs, they wanted to "fuk up" the majority population in Kosova too, even Montenegro they lost because of their expansionist nature.
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Post by fazlinho on May 17, 2009 4:05:58 GMT -5
In the last moment he understood he couldn't betray his Emperor ;D. Much like the "Slovene" Bosniak who missed a penalty in the Slovenia - BiH match lol.
Aaaaah. Understood. Well it was quite an obvious agreement and it doesn't contradict what I said: It didn't care much about BiH for other gains! (more control on the new found states).
^ Never heard about the mutual agreement of all others ? Which obviousy wasn't written, as it was never written that everyone had to agree.
The fact that only Serbs and people who like em' think that somehow every citizen of BiH had to agree instead of only the majority as it is the practice in any country in the world is their problem only. Countries have the god given right to separate by the will of the majority, it's common and basic international law.
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Post by aaayyy on May 17, 2009 15:23:01 GMT -5
I absolutely disagree. BiH had large Serbian population, BiH was liberated (I know you don't like this word, but I can't think of more suitable for you one) from Ottomans because of Russia, do you think it was easy for Russians to just give BiH to their adversaries (AH)? Russia only did it because of AH's blackmail. You say that other regions were more important for Russia than BiH? Do you think AH would have agreed to take, say, Kars instead of BiH? AH was interested in BiH as adjacent territory, it wouldn't have taken anything else as a substitute.
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Post by aaayyy on May 17, 2009 15:31:08 GMT -5
Not every citizen of BiH, not simple majority of the whole BiH population, but the will of the majority of EACH BiH people should matter. That's the way how the voting is going on in the country with similar ethnic structure - Switzerland. That's why more numerous German cantons don't suppress the others there. Countries don't have right to separate - countries are something that already independent How about international law about preserving country's integrity? All that isn't as simple as you see it. For example, how would you formulate who has right to separate from the origin country and with which property/territory?
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Post by soko on May 17, 2009 16:14:44 GMT -5
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Post by fazlinho on May 17, 2009 18:21:33 GMT -5
I'll never understand how can Russia take any credit for such a "liberation" when it never fired a shot in Bosnia so let's agree we disagree.
BiH isn't Switzerland, no nation of Switzerland ever tried to annex any part of Switzerland to another country, no nation made mass killings of others, no Swiss nation cheers for another country, no Swiss nation curses everything that's Swiss, no Swiss nation puts the interests of other countries before their on. When Serbs and Croats will behave like that you'll talk me about Switzerland.
My bad, substitude "state" with country and you'l see what I mean
As for federal countries it puts the interests of single states before others.
It really is really simple, every state has that right, and the property/territory is the one of the state. That's why Bosniaks didn't ask for Sandzak, even if there are Bosniaks. We did everythhing we did respecting international andd yugoslav laws.
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