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Post by fazlinho on May 12, 2009 16:40:35 GMT -5
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Post by soko on May 12, 2009 17:39:06 GMT -5
joj, boze dragi, dosta glorifikacija bezveznih ratova... ovo je enormna tragedija.. toliko nosih da je izginulo bez ikakve veze u ww1 ratu.. ajd ako rizikujes zivot da bi odbranio vlastiti dom, ili ako zelis bolji zivot... ali ovo je jedino tragicno i tuzno...jedino od ovoga se moze nauciti koliko je prvo svijetski rat bio besmislen, kao i vecina ratova takoder...
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yeni
Moderator
gulash freak
Posts: 327
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Post by yeni on May 12, 2009 18:28:06 GMT -5
nice photos thanks for sharing it! do any of you know this book? opinion? www.militaria.at/Book.aspx?book=9009000&Language=deDes Kaisers Bosniaken Bošnjaci u carskoj službi The Emperor’s Bosniaks "Content Bosnia-Herzegovina was occupied by Austria-Hungary in 1878, annexed in 1908 and was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until 1918. This book, illustrated in colour, with 352 pages and nearly 600 photographs, presents a picture of the Bosnian soldiers in the Austro-Hungarian army and their military history under Austro-Hungarian administration. Starting with the political and military reasons for the occupation, through the annexation to the end of the First World War, it takes the reader to a world that at the time was seen as highly exotic. The Bosniaks, who were seen as an elite group within the k.u.k. Army and who – with their strange uniform and fez headgear – attracted much attention from the various formations of the Austro-Hungarian Army, are the focus of the book. This richly illustrated volume also offers a detailed view of the uniforms, equipment and weaponry of the Bosniaks, from the formation of the Bosnian-Herzegovinian infantry and Jäger troops to their first deployment in the First World War, 1914 –1918. Finally, short biographies of numerous well-known people who served with the Bosniaks, for instance the once Austrian President, Dr Adolf Schärf, give the Old Army a face. Feared by their enemies, respected by their comrades for their fighting spirit, the Bosnian-Herzegovinian troops were a reliable component of the Austro-Hungarian Army until the end of the First World War. This book, produced in co-operation with the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum Vienna, the Austrian Federal Armed Forces and the Army Museum Budapest, as well as private collectors, is also a project intended to bring together different religious and ethnic groups." Otto von Habsburg (current head of the Habsburg dynasty) reading it ;D
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Post by tito on May 12, 2009 18:58:03 GMT -5
joj, boze dragi, dosta glorifikacija bezveznih ratova... Ne radi se o glorifikaciji ratova nego o edukaciji. ovo je enormna tragedija.. toliko nosih da je izginulo bez ikakve veze u ww1 ratu.. ajd ako rizikujes zivot da bi odbranio vlastiti dom, ili ako zelis bolji zivot... ali ovo je jedino tragicno i tuzno...jedino od ovoga se moze nauciti koliko je prvo svijetski rat bio besmislen, kao i vecina ratova takoder... Bosna i Hercegovina je imala svoju autonomiju, nije bilo velike Srbije i velike Hrvatske, Bosnjaci su imali pravo na svoj identitet, i zato je besmisleno tvrditi da je "tuzno" sto su Bosnjaci branili Bosnu od velikosrpskog neprijatelja u WW1.
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Post by soko on May 12, 2009 19:08:34 GMT -5
^^ Bosna i Hercegovina je bila zadnja rupa Austrije, Austrijanci su na nas gledali kao prljave muhamedance,[ono sto su malo napravili mostova i bolnica i skola je bio neki minimum sto se morali napravit kada su dosli, posto je otomansko carstvo bilo zaostalo] a slali nas da ginu za njihovu imperiju..
branili.. joj bogati... topovsko meso za tudjina je braniti se?... austrija nije vrijedna zivota tih momaka.. ali kada smo glupi kao kurac bolje nezasluzujemo... isto tako kao sto ti mislis da su se ovi "branili" time sto su natjerani da ginu za svabe, tako srpski nacijonalisti nikada nece shvatati da je na stotinjak hiljada mladih ljudi njihove zemlje potrosen u prvom svijetskom ratu radi intresa engleza...
ajd, jeli bi ti, da je prvi svijetski rat bio sretan da te neko salje da gines za zemlju ciji jezik nemozes shvatiti?
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Post by tito on May 12, 2009 20:01:16 GMT -5
^^ Bosna i Hercegovina je bila zadnja rupa Austrije, Austrijanci su na nas gledali kao prljave muhamedance,[ono sto su malo napravili mostova i bolnica i skola je bio neki minimum sto se morali napravit kada su dosli, posto je otomansko carstvo bilo zaostalo] a slali nas da ginu za njihovu imperiju.. Njihova imperija je nama i nasoj zemlji Bosni obezbjedila visi stepen prava nego Srboslavija i zato je nas interes u WW1 bio da branimo Bosnu unutar te imperije od velikosrpskog neprijatelja. branili.. joj bogati... topovsko meso za tudjina je braniti se?... austrija nije vrijedna zivota tih momaka.. ali kada smo glupi kao kurac bolje nezasluzujemo... Tacno je da Austrija nikad nije bila vrijedna Bosnjacki zivota ali braneci Austriju Bosnjaci su branili majku Bosnu i svoje pravo na Bosnjacki identitet. isto tako kao sto ti mislis da su se ovi "branili" time sto su natjerani da ginu za svabe, tako srpski nacijonalisti nikada nece shvatati da je na stotinjak hiljada mladih ljudi njihove zemlje potrosen u prvom svijetskom ratu radi intresa engleza... ajd, jeli bi ti, da je prvi svijetski rat bio sretan da te neko salje da gines za zemlju ciji jezik nemozes shvatiti? Srpski nacionalisti su rusili Bosnu i stvarali veliku Srbiju zapadno od Drine. Oni su Bosnjacima oduzeli pravo na Bosanski jezik, Bosnjacko ime i cak nas proglasili "srbima". Zato su moji pradjedovi ponosno ratovali za svoja prava i prava majke Bosne unutar Austrije i ako nisu znali svabski jezik.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on May 12, 2009 23:13:57 GMT -5
^tito he was talking about how the serbs were fighting for the english not the bosos!...
I like what you said soko, my great grandfather was sent away to fight bez veze, in a country he couldn't understand. Somehow he returned. But he returned to alot less than what they had beforehand. That's communism for you :-)
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Post by SKORIC on May 13, 2009 5:36:43 GMT -5
lol what?
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Post by aaayyy on May 13, 2009 17:05:16 GMT -5
yeni,
I wonder how the book about Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) can bring together different religious and ethnic groups, if Bosnian residents of different religions had different loyalties.
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Post by tito on May 13, 2009 17:45:08 GMT -5
yeni, I wonder how the book about Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) can bring together different religious and ethnic groups, if Bosnian residents of different religions had different loyalties. Bosnian Muslims are not the only Bosniaks you know, Catholic and Orthodox Christian Bosniaks where in the same trenches as the Muslims, defending mother Bosnia. Loyalty to Serbia and Croatia is mostly a product of the Serbo-Croat/"Yugoslav"-occupation of Bosnia.
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Post by aaayyy on May 13, 2009 19:39:32 GMT -5
tito,
A lot of AH Slavs were not loyal to it, though they had to be in the AH trenches during WWI they willingly surrendered at first occasion.
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Post by tito on May 13, 2009 19:46:15 GMT -5
tito, A lot of AH Slavs were not loyal to it, though they had to be in the AH trenches during WWI they willingly surrendered at first occasion. Most "AH slavs" where not Bosniaks, I was talking about the Bosniaks(of all 3 religions).
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Post by aaayyy on May 13, 2009 19:50:26 GMT -5
I think the word "Bosniak" means "Bosnian Muslim".
I somehow doubt that the majority of Bosnian Serbs were loyal to AH during WWI.
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Post by tito on May 13, 2009 20:01:54 GMT -5
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Post by fazlinho on May 14, 2009 4:33:30 GMT -5
I didn't know you didn't know aaayyy. Bosniaks is how catholics, croats and muslims in Bosnia called themselves before yugoslavia. As catholics and orthodoxs adopted new identities, only muslims now call themselves with their old national name, Bosniaks.
Religion indeed played a big role in the history of the Balkans.
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yeni
Moderator
gulash freak
Posts: 327
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Post by yeni on May 15, 2009 10:10:17 GMT -5
^ agree, i read some Hungarian books from the 19th century and there also the population of Bosnia are called "bosnyákok" = "bosniaks" regardless their religion. And catholic refugees who left Bosnia during the Ottoman conquest are also called bosniaks, for example the baranyai bosnyákok (Bosniaks of Baranya/Baranjski Bošnjaci). of course with the development of nationalism now they adopt Croat identity. hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo%C5%A1njaci_(Hrvati_u_Ma%C4%91arskoj)
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Post by fazlinho on May 15, 2009 10:33:09 GMT -5
One just has to think about all Bosniaks who left the Ottoman empire and migrated to muslim and arab countries (read: where there was no Serb or Croat influene). There are TONS of surnames بشناق (translittered bushnaaq) but there are no hrvats nor serbs. Where influences from Croatia and Serbia were absent, all the descendants of emigrates from Bosnia are known as Bosniaks only, no trace of Croats or Serbs is ever found. Religion played a big role in every ethnicity, and nowadays they surely are as much Serb or Croat as Serbs or Croats from Croatia, but when they claim we are really Serbs or Croats, that's what makes us and other neutral historians laugh. And I'm happy someone totally neutral agrees with that view.
Btw these days I'm reading a book where the battles of the Ottoman empire against Hungary are well described, I was wondering nowadays are there any traces of Ottoman presence in Hungary?
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yeni
Moderator
gulash freak
Posts: 327
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Post by yeni on May 15, 2009 11:06:56 GMT -5
Bosnyák (as a family name) also exist in Hungary, there was a very infamous antisemite activist during ww2 called Bosnyák Zoltán. lol he was catholic, so most likely descendant of Bosniak refugees from Ottoman conquest.
Ottoman traces in Hungary: two mosques in Pécs (Jakovalli Haszán and Gazi Kaszim, the first is still used by muslims, the other now a church), one mosque in Siklós (Malkocs beg), two mosques in Szigetvár (one named after Sultan Suleyman i think museum now?, other named after a certain Ali pasha, now a church), an ottoman karavanseray also stand there, one mosque (Özicseli Hadzsi Ibrahim) was recently found in Esztergom and restored i think its a museum now, two minarets without mosque building remained (one in the city of Eger, another in Érd), i know about two Ottoman turbes (Idris baba's turbe in Pécs and Gül Baba's türbe in Budapest), there are also few turkish bath (hamam) remained in Budapest, then i know a very small Ottoman cemetary outside the Buda castle and theres the symbolic tomb of the last Ottoman pasha of Buda in the castle. in one of the catholic churches of Budapest the mihrab is still seen (so it was used as a mosque during Ottoman times). plus a few place names from that time. these are those i know, but there can be more, so its not a complite list.
muslim population didn't survive the Habsburg conquest, there were three options for them 1. migration to the Ottoman Empire, 2. conversion to catholicism 3. death.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on May 15, 2009 11:28:01 GMT -5
No sane Croat ever called himself a Bosniak, where on earth do you get your info from? How can you be 2 ethnicities? Another exalt for comedic factor.
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Post by fazlinho on May 15, 2009 11:43:26 GMT -5
No sane Croat ever called himself a Bosniak, where on earth do you get your info from? How can you be 2 ethnicities? Another exalt for comedic factor. I'll let a Croat intellectual speak for me, who as you can read is heavily croat oriented but he doesn't deny historical facts: So I even gave you a Croat sided view of the story. His comments, don't bother me at all. What I'm interested in, is showing how indeed Bosniak catholics called themselves as that, Bosniaks untill foreign influences from Croatia came to Bosnia. Even if as he writes it was all our fault if you guys call yourself Croats now, it doesn't change that simple fact: you abandoned your old name for a new one.If you want more sources about the happy times you enjoyed bosniakhood here I am.
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