It was a name change after the serbs conquered Duklja
Only coastal areas could have had large catholic populations. Historical documents show that all of Montenegro except Boka Kotorska were under Byzantine (Orthodox) control.
Historical documents describe the Doclean cities of Onogost(Niksic) and Ribnica(Podgorica) as being Catholic, as well as the Kings of Doclea allying their Kingdom with Rome not Byzantine.
Sdecond. Historical records classify the inhabitants of Doclea as being Serbs.
Not one historical record can prove this, but many disprove it, in all the hard evidence from Roman historical records, shows the Docleans as Ethnic Slavs of Catholic Religion, bordered on the east by Serbs and to the north by Croats.
They though rival states. Duklja was inhabited by Serbs as were the neighbovuring areas they battled.
This is what the Serbs have been trying to make people believe since they conquered Duklja and destroyed most of the country
Read Novak Adzic's or any other prominent scholar's studies which prove everything I say.
First of all. Only coastal areas would have been converted and second Zeta was formed in 1356 (157 years after Stefan Nemanja's death) so your claim that the name of Duklja was changed by Stefan Nemanja is false. And no assimilation occured, Montenegrins were always ethnically Serb and after the Ottomans arrive did Montenegrins become a distinct nation.
That is not when Zeta was formed, The province was named zeta before then, but around 1356 is when Zeta achieved semi-independence.
There are tons of evidence to prove that there did not even exist serbs in Montenegro let alone Duklja, Duklja having no Serb influence at all, if anything more Croatian Toponyms
The lies you believe in Radovic just prove the truth of how hard Serbs have being attempting to assimilate us.
Post by cromerican on Nov 16, 2007 19:24:21 GMT -5
were croatians serbs? who is the sub-worm that dared to insult their own intelligence by bringing this topic up?? Heres a little lesson in history for all the retards that would dare question this absurdity. Catholicism existed for 1100 years before the byzantine empire decided to split. . .so the true question should nbe, are serbians really croatian.
Wrong. The Catholic Church (the modern one) is a heretical outcropping of the former Crhistian Church. The Orthodox Church is the most pure and unaltered form of Christianity that exists and can thus be recognized as being the successor of the original Christian Church.
Post by branislavnusic on Aug 4, 2018 10:14:14 GMT -5
here's one for all the people who idenitfy as "MONTENEGRIN"
"In Montenegro live only true and pure Serbs who speak Serbian language... Besides Montenegro there are more Serb lands in which our Serb brothers are living... Some of them are free as we are and some subjugated to foreigners Each Serb in Montenegro is obligated to love his entire Fatherland, all Serb lands - in which our free and unfree Serb brothers are living."
Basaj is similar or even same as Gegaj,Muljaj..etc,Albanian surnames.
Albanian national hat(Keche)is of Caucasian origin and been worn by Azeris(A Turkic people which now live on territory of caucasus ALBANIA).
Kish church=KISH (shqiptar) means Church...coincidence?
April 989 AD – The Varangians aided Basil in his victory over Bardas Phocas’ lieutenant, Delphinas, at Scutari, on the Asian side of the Bosphorus.
Arnavutköy (meaning "Albanian village" in Turkish)
About the uniquity of the albanian language, Jirecek and Hamp give very good explanations about it. I recomend you as one schollar to another to read them.
There are two different and opposed notions of Albanians, their origin and historical role.
First,from the 11 century to the Berlin Congress in 1878, Arbanasi are Caucasian people,brought in the Balkan in mid-11th century, and second , from this date to today.
"Children Caucasus," wrote the medieval writer Magius Patavius.
Arbanites are not same people like Al-Arnauds,Gegs,Tosks and other tribes from Arabia and Caucasus
Arbanites are not same people like Shqiptars.
Arbani(tes) are the people who lived in the Balkan region before the arrival of Shqiptars.
Historical sources mention them only in the Middle Ages..not before
Arbani(tes)are no nation or tribe.
They are part of Roman (and East Roman) Empire,and "Slavic" kingdoms.
Macedonian Orthodox Church there has had great moments and there is no mention of Arbanasi.
Macedonian Saintsd there talk with the people of the Macedonian language.
Macedonian Saints there writing with the Macedonian alphabet.
Historical sources mention Tosk and Gegs in time after turks arrived to Balkan...not before
Мedieval historical sources suggests that inhabitants of Albania and Slavs speak the same language-slavic.
Tosk,Gegs and Al-Arnauts dont speak slavic.They dont speak any IE language.
All medieval toponyms, oronyms and so on are same as the ancient Macedonian, Slavic or Latin language.
Shqiptars toponyms, oronyms and so on..in time after turks arrived to Balkan...not before
Prof. Selšpčev correctly found that Arbania is the same as “Slavic” Macedonia in every aspect, and in the language, and in the economic and geomorphologic.
FACT:The Shqiptars are people who were brought to the Balkan by the Turks
They have no any roots in Balkan.
Fake Fact:Arnauts are fight agains turks,since 14 cent.
From the Ottoman register of 1431.. for Sandjak Arvanid :
-after Conquest Albania, the Turks were timariots only 30%
- The remaining 54% are already muslim Albanian...NO NEW...
- 16 % local Christians, including even episcops and mitropolitans (bishops) (134)
What this means?
Arbanasians been muslims in time before turks arrived to Balkan.
...the Albanian elite was awarded privilege by the Turks, and, as a result, was on guard against Slavic insurgency, a dread that increased after the flight of tens of thousands of Albanians from Kursumlija (Toplica district) and Vranje, after the Serbian takeover in 1878.
They retained no memory of alliances and blood ties between Albanian medieval princes
(from the families of Dukagjin, Arianit, Muzaka, Mataranga, Gropa, Thopia, Kastriot, and many others) and the Serb and Bulgar dynasts, the Slavic krajls.1
Instead they prayed with the Turks that the "seven kingdoms" should not be united.
Albanian kingdom was a mbreteri, not a Slavic krajli.
1. Milan Sufflay, Srbi i Arbanasi (Njihova simbioza u srednjem vijeku) (Belgrade, 1925), pp.121-135
Fact:Arnauts are fighting against Arbanas.
Arnauts are not Arbanas.
Fake Fact:The ethnonym applied to the people now known as Albanians is first attested from the 11th century (e.g. Anna Komnene, Alexiad 4.8.4), although such a nominal connection does not prove an actual link to the Illyrian tribe. The first reference to a lingua albanesca dates to the later 13th century.
Fact:...and reached Achrida (OHRID)....valley called Babagora...the city to Comiscortes of (city) Arbanon-Apßatvov (not Albanians) origin....
Anna Komnene, Alexiad 4.8.4
Historical fact: the Arbanites in medieval Balkan Kingdoms and Empires were not numerous.
Historical fact:the expansion of the Arnauts occurs only in the last 250 years, with the great help of the Turkish state.
Historical fact:large disparities in terms of number of Arbanites on the Macedonians , Serbs, Greeks and Bulgarians in the Balkans in the time before the arrival of the Turks.
Historical fact:no historical sources for any Shqiptar,Geg or Arnaut before Turkish conquest of Balkans.
It is difficult to assume that there is a great Albanian or Arbanit ethnic core of many centuries ago.
Fact:No large Turkish settlement is recorded in Albania except a small number of exiles from Konya, locally called Konici.
There are also the Yürüks of Kodjadjik on the mountains to the East of Dibra where they were stationed apparently to safeguard the Rumeli-Albania highway.
Theories on the beginnings of Albanians around the core of Caucasus Albanians,brought in the XI century, this process is physically feasible.
Additional immigration similar population from the Caucasus was feasible under the Turks.
With their own Albanian language, Albanians call their land ‘Shqiperia,’ (FAKE )meaning the ‘Land of the Eagles’ while themselves ‘Shqiptare,’ meaning the ‘Sons of the Eagles.’
FACT: meaning SPEAK.
The Albanians are divided into two principal ethnic groups: The Gegs to the North of the Shkumbi River and the Tosks to the South.
The Turks called these two regions Gegalik and Toskalik.
Not only in their dialects bul also in the outlook and social behaviour the Gegs differ from the Tosks. The Gegs are considered as keeping national characteristics purer than the Tosks.
The Albanians are from the Caucasus, originally.
Caucasian Albania was located on the eastern area of the Caucasus between the Caspian sea and the tips of the mountain ranges.
Old Albania was known only for wild dogs and baren snow covered mountains, for which it recieved the name Albania by foreigners (Alba-white).
When Aleander the Great conquered Asia minor, he took with him the great leader of the Albanian tribes and gave him as a present an Albanian dog. Among other things, Caucasian Albania did not attract conquerors, because of its poverty and difficult terrain.
With the comming of the Arabs, they converted the Old Albanians in the 8th century to Islam. But meanwhile, at the time, the Arabs were waging campaigns in Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingom of the two Sicilies).
In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus.
To this day, their descendants live in Sicily.
Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos.
Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the “Serbs” and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercanaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land.
They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat (BELGRAD) and from this, the “Serbs” and other,called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi".
The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there.
They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Macedonian and “Serbian” nobles as brave soldiers.
Michael Ataliotos describes the events in his chronicle:
"Historia, Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae. Impensis ed. Neberi, Bonnae".
Archaeological findings from Albania not confirm this story.
All material culture in Albania points to "the Slavic" population.
Genetically, the Shqiptars are connected with the "Arab world" and the Roma people.
The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari".
This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar".
Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR".
Taken together with the Shqiptar-Albanian toponyms on the territory of the former Caucasian Albania, this theory on the etymology of "Shqipatr" becomes more plausable.
The original URAL-ALTAIC speaking Caucasian Shqiptar-Albanians were part of the AVAR KHANATE which had one of its early capitals in Caucasian Albania (hence Albanian topnyms there, the possible Ural-Altaic etymology of the suffix in the word "Shqip-tar" and the similarities in national costume with Caucasian peoples - the non-Indo-European Georgians, in particular).
The historical rendering of the ethnonym Shqiptar (or Shqyptar by French, Austrian and German authors) in use from the 18th century (NO earlier) to the present, the literal translation of which is subject of the eagle.
But,all Western scientists who have studied Albanians, agree to Shqiptars means - Highlanders.
Turks called them Arnauts.
It is Arabic name which means that those who did not return.
Before the Turkish conquest of the Balkans, history does not record the words as Shqiptars or Arnauts.
History tell us that the Shqiptars fought against the Arbanasians.
Sultans are cursed his predecessor, Suleiman II (1687-1691), who brought Gegs in the Balkans, because it is in Europe Osmanlian empire was already called "dark", or "larcenous" vilaet.
Dr. N. zupanic wrote:
True fatherland of the Gegs is NOT Macedonia, but the vilaet of Caucasus!
Arnauts-Gegs are the product of wild Kurds.
Authors wrote that the mass-migration of Gegs-Mirdites (Kurdistan) from Asia, in the second half of the XVII century, which was made forcibly by the Osmanlian military authorities,1. had the mission to be broken christian element with a new religious-Muslim population.
The territory of North Arvanija (Albania, R.I.) Osmanlian occupying authorities were called Arnautlak and its inhabitants Arnauts.
Ežen Pitar ( "the people who have led the Turks in the Balkans")
R.Gorgevik ("Circassian in our country ")
Let us initially say the fact that the Armenians, Georgians, Rans, Movaknels, Herethians, Leks, Megrels and Caucasians had one father named Thargamos, son of Tharshi, son of Gamer, son of Japheth, son of Noah.
They selected eight of the bravest and most renowned of his sons. First was Haos, second Qarthlos, third Bardos, fourth Movakan, fifth Lek, sixth Heros, seventh Caucas, and eighth Egros.
-First "Illyrian" king was Bardilis.
-name Bard (Brela), it is often in Albania
-Name of Lek (Leko, Leka) is very often in Albania
Mirdat was king of Karthalinia (Georgia)....Mirdita-Shqiptar tribe
Tamara was Queen of Karthalinia (Georgia)...
-Gogo is a very common male name in Georgia and Albania
-Keko in Georgia female and male name in Albania.
-Shqiptars:mother=Nona, and in Georgia is female name.
-Gruzians: mother=deda ;Shqiptars Deda= male name.
Old Albania was known only for wild dogs and baren snow covered mountains, for which it recieved the name Albania by foreigners (Alba=white).
The Caucasian Albanians (also spelled as Alban, Aghvan,Ahgvank, Aghban, and Alpan) were a nation, which, according to the ancient geographer Strabo, consisted of 26 tribes, and the majority was Turkic : (some of tribes: Alwanis/Alpans, Uti, Udins, Gels, Legs, Kryzes, Hinalugs, Chols, Gargars ,Sakas or Shakas,Mazkits/Ishguz's,Abars /Awars ,Bashigirhihi/ Bashkirs,Khazars, Barsiles, Huns, Saragurs, Sabirs, Kuturgurs, Kok-Turks, Kipchaks (todays Kumyk, Nogay, Karachay, and Balkar,) ( some of places: Hereti,Khakheti,Sheki,Kish,Shusha,Derbent…)
Turkish scholars on Caucasian Albania argue that "Albania" means "Country of Alpes" (where Alpes are one of the names for Albans or mountains), but also says that "in history Albans have once more came out as the most ancient Turkic people....bowing to the Sun”
In the republic of Georgia, in the Caucasus, on the terriory of the former Caucasian Albania, from where the Avar Khanate once had its capital, there is a village named: "Arnauti".
This is the name by which Serbs, Greeks, Turks, Macedonians and Montenegrin Serbs refer to Albanians in their respective langauges.
There is also village in Georgia named "Bushati" - which is the name of an Albanian tribe ("fis") around Lake Skadar.
There are three villages named: "Geguti", "Gegeni" and "Gegi".
"Ghegheni" is the name designated to Albanians who live north of the Shkumbi River in Albania proper.
Gegi Gora 39N 45E 2512 8241
Right on the border with the Republic of Georgia in THE CAUCASUS.
(gora - mountainous forest: trans: gegi gora = mountainous forest of Gegs).
We can look for "Geg" in the western Caucasus in modern Georgia...
The word "gege" in the Georgian language means absolutely nothing, however, "gegali" means "goat".
In albanian a goat is called "lia" (dhia), so it si totaly possible that this may originate from later part of the word "gega-LI" From "gegali" "gegeria" could have been derived, since according to Neo-Greek phonetics, the "l" became "r".
Thus Gegegria would mean "Goat herders" and "Geg" would be the shortneded form or deminutive.
This name is appropriate for the main occupation of the population in these regions where there were plenty of goats from which milk and meat were the main source.
Wealth was counted in goats.
The Caucasian origins of the Gegs can be traced to ancient Georgia in the Caucasus where there once existed a land in antiquity called GOGARI, later changed to GOGARENA.
....when the Armenian people lost its statehood and lands, to make it possible to join foreign lands, the Albanian kingdom, i. e. the lands of historical Georgia (Gogarena).
Stephanus, an ancient author, expressly says, that the inhabited district on the south side was called Gogarena. "
Gogarena est locus inter Colchos et Iberos orientales."
Iberia was on the south side, and Colchis at the western extremity, of the mountain; this name then included the whole southern side of it, and sufficiently proves, that it was called Gog by some nations as well as Kauc by others…
There is almost no difference between Caucasian Gogari and the Albanian Gegeri, thus logic points us in the direction that there exists some primary relationship between between these two names.
Armenia alba is one of the highest regions in the world...
identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea)
Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish")
Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura")
Even to-day, wherever in Asia Minor or Syria one finds the roads comparatively safe, the villages quiet, and government an obvious if grim reality, one is sure to learn in nine cases out of ten that the real executive officer is an Arnaut. In the tenth case he is usually of Caucasian origin.
The number of Albanians or Arnauts is estimated at 1,500,000; for they are not confined to Albania, but axe scattered over several other provinces, although their chief place of settlement is Albania. They are descendants of the old Epirotes or lUyrians; other ethnographers, however, assert that they ai-e descendants of the Albanians, who formerly lived in Caucasus^ and were identical with the Alans.
1864...More deplorable still was the lot of the Circassians and other Caucasian tribes, who, to the number of 400,000, sought a refuge in Turkey in 1864.
The pasha intrusted with the installation of these immigrants sent many of them to Western Bulgaria, in the vain hope that they would cut off all contact between "Servians" and "Bulgarians".
Where are today the descendants of Circassian?
To this brand of Circassian (KAVKAZ) self-assertion belongs the spurious genealogy of one Ridwan Bey, whom P. M. Holt has identified as the FaqarT chieftain who monopolized the post of pilgrimage commander during the 1630s and 1640s." The genealogy traces Ridwan's lineage to the Mamluk sultan BarqQq (1382-99) and thence to the Quraysh. Holt construes the genealogy as Ridwan...
The Quraysh are a branch of the "Arabized Arabs".
gledame,Quraysh ne se arapi,tuku Cerkezi,koi se poarapile,a se smetale za predci na Shqipot-Al-Arnaut...
Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1848-1856), Vol. 2. (1850).
Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1848-1856) is currently published by Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland
The Albanians are divided into four tribes. These are, the Gheghides and Mirdites, the Toskides, the Tsamides, and the Liapides.
The tribe of the Ghegs and Mirdites are of lofty stature and athletic frame ; and their swarthy complexion and black eyes still retain the characteristics of their supposed Caucasian origin.
The Toskides are the most handsome of the Albanians. They have noble features, with fair hair and blue eyes, indicating the mixture of Georgian blood, which probably flows in their veins : less warlike than their countrymen of the other tribes, their stature is also less Herculean. They are supposed to have derived their name from the Toxidse, mentioned by Chardin as inhabiting Mingrelia.
MINGRELIA, a former principality of Transcaucasia, which became subject to Russia in 1804, and since 1867 has belonged to the government of Kutais. The country corresponds to the ancient Colchis
The country now occupied by this tribe lies to the south of that of the Ghegs and Mirdites, and extends to the river Vojutza. It is called by themselves Toskouria. Their chief places are Elbassan and Berat, called by the Turks Arnaout Belgrad, in order to distinguish it from Belgrade on the Danube. Te-pellene, the birth-place of Ali Pasha, is now included in their territory, although it was formerly considered as belonging to the infamous Liapides. The great despot declared it, however, to be in Toskouria and no one dared to gainsay him on a point which affected the respectability of his origin. The women of the Toske tribe are remarkable for their beauty, like those of Georgia, whence they issue, according to the conjecture of some antiquaries.
In their own language they call themselves Skipetar, which name bears some affinity with that of of the Skitekip, mentioned by the Armenian geographers as inhabiting a territory near the Caspian.
Mongol: Encyclopedia II - Mongol Empire – Organization
...the army was built upon a squad of ten, called an "arban"; ten "arbans" constituted a company of a hundred, called a "jaghun". Ten "jaghuns" made a regiment of a thousand – "mingghan". Ten "mingghans" would then constitute a regiment of ten thousand ("tumen"),
ulf: well, seems like you were lucky one as my cousin even though he has all the common symptoms: sore throat, constant temperature, and feeling weak - couldn't book himself a testing.
Jun 26, 2020 15:18:51 GMT -5
branislavnusic: sore throat is not one of the symptoms i think
Jun 26, 2020 15:27:22 GMT -5
Pyrros: Guys, come the funkety on, covid does not exist. I dont know if this will upset the demons but I had to let it out. Sorry demons.
Jul 1, 2020 13:09:23 GMT -5
Pyrros: Pssst demons, come on you funkers, lit this subaru on fire, I am gonna get a better one
Jul 1, 2020 13:14:27 GMT -5
ulf: "covid does not exist"
Jul 1, 2020 13:39:56 GMT -5
ulf: I got nothing more to add than this:
Jul 1, 2020 13:40:09 GMT -5
branislavnusic: The saxons are suffering the worst so it's a good thing
Jul 1, 2020 14:54:49 GMT -5
Pyrros: I dont know the state of whesto propaganda in Serbia or the amount of real Death the demons have injected into the society, but here in Grekolandia this is supreme royal joke.
Jul 2, 2020 4:08:17 GMT -5
Pyrros: I mean we are one on top of the other like a massive orgy kind of thing, yet, no covid to be found anywhere.
Jul 2, 2020 4:09:06 GMT -5
Pyrros: Also Admin is of the same philosophy : covid does not exist, it is only a spiritual virtual concept not real.
Jul 2, 2020 4:10:51 GMT -5
Pyrros: false-Greeks hate Serbs. Serbs should only go to Bulgaria. The only serious Slavic land in south balkans who respects other Slavs.
Jul 3, 2020 7:30:03 GMT -5
ulf: What should they do? Watch them spread the disease? Don't be ridiculous, they should be graceful they allowed them to go back home. This mans health got worse after few days, now he is in Serbian hospital
Jul 3, 2020 10:11:37 GMT -5
Pyrros: The disease? ok... Anyways this is not the point. The point is Slavs need to get serious. Stop dealing with haters.
Jul 4, 2020 0:12:24 GMT -5