MiG
Amicus
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Post by MiG on Feb 11, 2008 17:58:38 GMT -5
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tyson
Amicus
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Post by tyson on Feb 11, 2008 21:44:01 GMT -5
and what about the suffering of croats in italian occupied areas of the croatian coast during world war 2,... the fascist italians set up concentration camps along the italian occupied croatian coast to kill the croats off in these areas to change the demographic balance in the italians favor, aswell as bringing hundreds of thousands of italians from sicily and southern italy to colonise the croatian coast which the italians stole from us. the italians were our allies on paper, since we both aligned ourselves with germany, but in reality, italy was croatia's arch enemy together with the cetniks. the italians and cetniks secretly were making plans to divide croatia between them for their spoils. the italians are no better than the cetniks. they're both scum.
and lets not forget the centuries long struggle and suffering of croats in venetian occupied areas of the croatian coast,.... the venetians have always been trying to forcefully assimilate the croats in the venetian occupied areas of the croatian coast, by banning our language and forcing us to learn to speak venetian, which they hopelessly failed. the venetians occupied these areas, but the inhabitants of these areas despised them. they would never be able to keep these territories forever unless they killed the croat population there off.
back to world war 2,.... now i'm an anti-communist, and dont like tito, but him kicking all those italian bastards out of the croatian coast was best thing he has ever done.
plus all those italians that fled were all italians from italy. they werent even from the croatian coast. tito didnt kick out the italians who have been living there for generations, but only the colonisers from italy. nothing wrong with doing that.
now because italy has lost the battle over the croatian coast forever, they're crying crocodile tears, and expects everybody to feel sorry for them, but no one gives a rats ass.
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Fender
Commanding Moderator
Hardarse
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Post by Fender on Feb 11, 2008 22:21:43 GMT -5
Whats wrong with the coastline on the Italian side?
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tyson
Amicus
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Post by tyson on Feb 11, 2008 22:29:40 GMT -5
^ they're greedy bastards who want what they cant have. that and the fact that our coastline kicks the italian coastline's ass
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Feb 11, 2008 22:32:56 GMT -5
Mah pusti ih. Vidis da su pedercine prve klase.. Picka im se ogadila.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 12, 2008 2:54:56 GMT -5
The italian side of the adriatic sucks, there are no good beaches and the water is dirty, this is why all the italians come to Croatia for vacation or Montenegro
Tyson - I never knew that the italians were such enemies of the Croats, I always thought you were allies, wierd
What ever happen in ww2 with the Molise Croats?
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tyson
Amicus
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Post by tyson on Feb 12, 2008 8:33:40 GMT -5
italians were never our friends. both of us sharing the catholic faith, and being allies with germany in world war 2 is the illusion that somehow croats and italians must be friends, but its completely the opposite.
the vatican is a different story. they are an independant entity from italy. we have very strong ties to the vatican, and the vatican sees us as champions of catholicism. it is a fact that croats are the most religious and pious of catholics in europe. so many croats are roman catholics of monastic orders like the benedictine order, dominician order, and especially the franciscian order.
nothing happened to the molise croats. they just been going about their daily lives in their village as much as they could despite there being a world war in europe.
they played no politcal role then, and were left alone because there is no purpose to bother them. its not of any strategic importance to do anything to the molise croat population of mundimitar, unlike the croatian coast which the italians were trying to get their hands on.
the molise croats are one of the croatian treasures. i would like to see them all relocate to croatia in one unit to make a new moliski hrvat village in dalmatinska zagora, named after their village in the molise district called mundimitar, with the funding for this from the croatian government.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 12, 2008 13:43:31 GMT -5
Why would you want to move out the Croat diaspora of Italy? I believe the fact that they are there and still feel they are croats, representing their homeland is special.
Just like the 81 Montenegrins in Istria, who were there since 1657
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Trazi Vise
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Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Feb 12, 2008 19:15:41 GMT -5
It's no where near as pretty as ours; but they have some good areas near the border of France, that's all they got. We got the gold
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Feb 12, 2008 19:30:13 GMT -5
italians were never our friends. both of us sharing the catholic faith, and being allies with germany in world war 2 is the illusion that somehow croats and italians must be friends, but its completely the opposite. the vatican is a different story. they are an independant entity from italy. we have very strong ties to the vatican, and the vatican sees us as champions of catholicism. it is a fact that croats are the most religious and pious of catholics in europe. so many croats are roman catholics of monastic orders like the benedictine order, dominician order, and especially the franciscian order. nothing happened to the molise croats. they just been going about their daily lives in their village as much as they could despite there being a world war in europe. they played no politcal role then, and were left alone because there is no purpose to bother them. its not of any strategic importance to do anything to the molise croat population of mundimitar, unlike the croatian coast which the italians were trying to get their hands on. the molise croats are one of the croatian treasures. i would like to see them all relocate to croatia in one unit to make a new moliski hrvat village in dalmatinska zagora, named after their village in the molise district called mundimitar, with the funding for this from the croatian government. Once again tyson, you have some good stuff there. Your right when you say the Italians have always wanted to put their hands on our side of the coast. The billions in tourist dollars they would make would not go astray, in anyones language. In terms of shipping, it has one of the best and most accessible warm water ports in the world. No wonder the EU and NATO want and need Croatia .
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Trazi Vise
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Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
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Post by Trazi Vise on Feb 12, 2008 19:59:04 GMT -5
Just look at history re Dubrovnik kingdom...The "Italians"(they were not know as this back then); the Romans and Venetians at the time always wanted and controlled certain parts of the coast.
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tyson
Amicus
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Post by tyson on Feb 13, 2008 2:05:43 GMT -5
Why would you want to move out the Croat diaspora of Italy? I believe the fact that they are there and still feel they are croats, representing their homeland is special. Just like the 81 Montenegrins in Istria, who were there since 1657 because they descend from dalmatinska zagora, and herzegovina. their community is threatened by assimilation into the italian nation, therefore their identity will be lost forever. in croatia their needs can be looked after better, and they can maintain their croatian identity, and traditons much better. the molisi are a dying breed, and the italian government has no interest in maintaining this community, because they arent italians, and would much rather them be absorbed into the italian nation. only in croatia can their community be brought back to life. look at the janjevci,... their situation in kosovo is grim, and they have been leaving there for decades. if tudjman didnt take most of the janjevci out of kosovo collectively, and make new communities in croatia for them like in kistanje, zagreb etc. then most probably the janjevci wouldve ended up moving by themselves spread all over different western countries like america and such, and it is only natural that they would make their future in their new adopted countries, and marry non-croats after a couple generations, and assimilate like most others do when they go to america or canada etc. so then the janjevci community would be lost forever. but because tudjman cared about keeping the janjevci community alive, he took most of them out of kosovo collectively and made new settlements for them in croatia, and now their communities in croatia are strong, and the janjevci are happy. their communities in croatia are growing because they have lots of children. so the resettlement of janjevci in croatia has been a success story. so with the montenegrins in peroj, they are able to maintain their community because they speak practically the same language is croatian, and they have their national orthodox church. for the molizanski hrvati, they are roman catholics like the italians, and the official language of italy is completely different to their native tongue. they dont have some type of institution for them to maintain their identity like how the montenegrins of peroj do with their national orthodox church. in bosnia during the ottoman empire, it was different though, because maintaing the catholic faith also maintained your croatian identity, because the serbs were all orthodox, and the muslims made their own regional identity, so in this situation for a catholic croat to maintain his croatian identity, it was easy, because only croats were catholics in bosnia, whereas on the other hand for a croat who was orthodox or muslim, it would be hard to maintain their croatian identity, because sooner or later they're going to get absorbed into the serb nation if they're orthodox, and the bosnian regional identity if they're muslim. so this is the same problem with the molizanski hrvati, except its worse, because they speak the same language in bosnia, but its hard to maintain your native tongue when the country you live in speaks a completely different language. molise croats would be 100 times better off in croatia.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 13, 2008 3:37:31 GMT -5
Tyson - I understand your point, but you do know that the Molise Croats are bilingual?
They are taught Croatian and Italian in their villages, the country allows this.
Italy is in the EU, I'm very sure they will not be opressed or mistreated in anyway by the Italians, not to mention that the Molise Croats are a traditional minority in Italy, not like the arabs and indians who are nowadays there.
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Fender
Commanding Moderator
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Post by Fender on Feb 13, 2008 3:49:56 GMT -5
Tyson - I understand your point, but you do know that the Molise Croats are bilingual? They are taught Croatian and Italian in their villages, the country allows this. Italy is in the EU, I'm very sure they will not be opressed or mistreated in anyway by the Italians, not to mention that the Molise Croats are a traditional minority in Italy, not like the arabs and indians who are nowadays there. Italy are one of the BIG FOUR in the EU. Why would you trust them. They like Slovenija are trying barge their way into our fishing stocks and then complain when we put the brakes on.
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tyson
Amicus
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Post by tyson on Feb 13, 2008 7:58:12 GMT -5
Tyson - I understand your point, but you do know that the Molise Croats are bilingual? They are taught Croatian and Italian in their villages, the country allows this. Italy is in the EU, I'm very sure they will not be opressed or mistreated in anyway by the Italians, not to mention that the Molise Croats are a traditional minority in Italy, not like the arabs and indians who are nowadays there. obviously the molise croats are bilingual. everybody in italy speaks italian, because italian is the official language of italy, and they are taught in the schools italian. croatian is not taught by anyone but croats themselves. it is not taught in the schools. the only thing the italian government has done was make the signs in the area bilingual. molise croats are not opressed or mistreated, but the italian government isnt doing anything for their community, besides the standard rights that is given to all italian citizens. the italian government is not interested in trying to preserve the molise croat community. they would prefer them assimilate . only the croatian government is doing something for them. bringing them to make a new settlement in croatia would make it easier for the croatian government to look after them, and it would also be beneficial to the moliski hrvati
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