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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 16, 2008 7:51:04 GMT -5
The Nazi police colonel and chief of the Gestapo for Serbia, Dr. Fuchs, when asked by the communist prosecutor about the relationship between General Mihailovich and the German police forces which he headed, responded unambiguously:
‘The Gestapo, which I headed throughout the war, maintained no contacts with General Mihailovich. Moreover, we always considered Mihailovich the number one enemy of the German people. That is why members of Mihailovich’s movement were persecuted without mercy by the Gestapo. The Germans were unanimous in the opinion that the nationalist movement in Serbia under Mihailovich’s command presented the greatest danger for the security of German troops in the Balkans. Finally, that is the movement which gave the most trouble to the Germans and which...’
Dr. Fuchs was not allowed to complete his sentence. The president of the court silenced him and adjourned the proceedings so that the world would never learn the truth about Mihailovich and the Germans from the mouth of a most competent witness, the man responsible for implementing Hitler’s laws in Serbia and over whose signature thousands of hostages were shot. The following day Dr. Fuchs trial was continued on camera.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 16, 2008 7:51:21 GMT -5
The head of the German economic apparatus in Serbia was engineer Franz Neuhausen. At his trial in Belgrade, after the war, prosecutor Minic boasted that ‘The German Reich was unable to export food from Serbia because of the operations of our Partisan forces.’ Neuhausen serenely exploded this communist fable:
‘We did not even feel the presence of the Partisans, or communists, in Serbia. If our warehouses were constantly under attack, pillaged, or destroyed, that was the responsibility of Mihailovich’s men, not of the Partisans. They [Mihailovich’s men] were the ones who curtailed our access to the villages and food stockpiles and thus frustrated German export from Serbia.’
Neuhausen’s testimony ends here because, he too, was silenced by the communist court.[/quote]
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 16, 2008 7:51:29 GMT -5
CAPTAIN WALTER MANSFIELD, of the FIRST AMERICAN MISSION TO MIHAILOVICH DURING WORLD WAR TWOSpeech given in Canada in 1953“There is no nation which would, more than you Serbs, appreciate human freedoms and rights. Not only appreciate, but give everything for them. It happened on Kosovo, the Salonika Front and Ravna Gora. The first thing that I learned from your brothers in your mountains was “Freedom or Death.” The great law and ideal for great men and times.
…I have not many opportunities to meet many great men. One of them is my good and never forgotten Chicha [General Mihailovich]. He will live in my heart as long as I last. I observed him in all conditions, mostly difficult ones. Then one can see better. It made no difference whether the gunpowder was burning the eyes, or death was waiting, or injustice was hurting. He was always great and sincere in victory as well as in defeat. He loved his country, his people and the cause of freedom, sacrificing himself for the glory of living…
Calm, courageous, and resourceful, during all operations from Ivanjica, Drina, Zlatibor, Valjevo and Sabac, he remained always legendary. I remember one night near Rudo, when a battle lasted three hours and the Germans were firing on us from all sides and from the air, Chicha went from one to another, from one part of the battlefield to another, bringing fate and force into our weakened bodies. To him we have to be grateful for breaking out of the encirclement. Yes, I might add, and for our lives. If there was no General I would not be alive today…
He spared innocent blood and avoided hopeless battles at all cost – although it is always easier to sacrifice others for one’s own glory, or build that glory on thousands of innocent and unneeded graves.
‘When the times of*general uprising comes,’ said Chicha, ‘we will give everything for freedom and victory. But, for that day we must be ready so that we can hit harder and win for sure. Before that day arrived they chose Tito. By such an act, they have sinned against God, faithfulness, justice, victory and freedom,’ Chicha declared.
During the very difficult winter of 1943, together, we were pushing to break out of the Valley of Death. Already the perspective was changing. The BBC glorified a man who had been sent to Yugoslavia to convert the liberation struggle into fratricidal war, and on the ruins of a state to build a Communist ‘Celekula’. [The Turkish Pasha of Nish, in 1809, had ordered that the heads of Serbian insurgents who had tried to liberate a town near Nish be shaved [Cele] and used to erect a tower [kula] as testimony to what happened if Turkish control was challenged in Serbia.] There is no cruel, dishonest, or bestial road that this Red monster did not take to to accomplish his task. The naïve Allies, to accommodate Stalin, nurtured a snake in their bosoms.
On his account fables were converted into history. Other people’s successes into his red feather. We were in Rogatica after Ostojic’s troops won the victory at Visegrad. That same night the BBC gave our victory to Tito and announced that victorious Partisans had entered Rogatica. We, the Yugoslav Army of the Homeland, were in Rogatica. At that time, around the town there was not a single German or a Tito Commie.
When we parted after a brotherly hug, Chicha was smiling but his eyes were sad. We knew what kind of days were to follow.”
Captain Walter Mansfield 1953 In a Speech given in Canada
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 16, 2008 7:51:56 GMT -5
American Military Forces treated as Prisoners by Tito's Partisans.^ Lt. Col. James M. Inks, United States Air ForceYUGOSLAV MILITARY ATTACHE QUESTIONS CAPTAIN OF THE U.S. AIR CORPS ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES IN WORLD WAR II YUGOSLAVIA AND LT. COL. JAMES M. INKS RESPONDS.July 13, 1946
Dear Lt. Inks:
I have learned that you parachuted from your plane on the 28th of July, 1944, near Podgorica, Yugoslavia and that you were liberated by the Partisans April 26, 1945, and returned to your base. As the military attaché to the Yugoslav Embassy in Washington, your experiences and impressions regarding this matter, interest me very much and I would appreciate it very much if you would inform me in detail about your experience. I am especially interested in your impressions of our units and the various parts of the country through which you passed, their treatment towards you, what observations you can make concerning the enemy and how you happened to be liberated by the Partisans and returned to your authorities. I would like to know how you were received by the various units in Yugoslavia and how they treated you.
Anticipating a quick reply to my inquiries, accept my sincerest regards and my congratulations on your safe return to your home and to your loved ones after all you have gone through in this horrible war.
Sincerely yours,
Colonel Mihovil Tartalja Military and Air Attache Yugoslav EmbassyLT. COL. JAMES M. INKS REPLIES:July 17, 1946
Colonel Mihovil Tartalja Military and Air Attache Yugoslav Embassy
Colonel Tartalja:
At dawn this morning, 17 July 1946, the Partisans took the life of the greatest man yet to show his face in the political situation of Yugoslavia. Yes, General Mihailovich was truly a great man. His honesty, integrity and straight-forwardness was in direct contract to the slinky and crafty Partisans that I was unfortunate enough to come in contact with.
I am writing this at your request, and my views are my own and are not to be interpreted as to represent those of the army or my government, however, you can rest assured that I am going to do my utmost to expose this monstrosity of a crime that your government has just this morning committed.
I spent months in Yugoslavia and came in contact with all of the factions there. I lived with General Mihailovich for three months and learned a great deal about the man and his ways of accomplishing things. I jumped in the same fox-holes with his Chetniks, when American and English planes bombed and strafed them on Tito’s information that Germans were there. True, the Chetniks were not openly fighting the Germans in the last year of the war, but they were powerless to do so. However I witnessed and took part in numerous skirmishes with the Germans, which we were forced to give the Partisans credit for.
As for the treatment by the different groups, the Chetniks treated us like free men and allies. They gave us food that should have normally gone to their underfed troops. They gave us guns and ammunition and money and allowed us to do just about anything we were physically able to. After we were captured by the Partisans, we were treated as prisoners and certainly not like allies. They took our guns and ammunition from us, kept us with their prisoners, and even forced us to carry wounded Partisans off the field of battle under fire.
I kept an accurate account of what happened to me and my comrades while we were in Yugoslavia. This has recently had its secret classification removed by the army and is now cleared for publication. I hope in the near future to have it before every citizen in the United States, in one of our popular magazines and you can rest assured that I will leave nothing out that reflects my contempt for your present form of Government. Furthermore, several hundred other American airmen are not going to forget General Mihailovich and I sincerely hope that we see to it that you are reminded forcefully of the supreme injustice that you have committed against him.
JAMES M. INKS Captain, Air Corps U.S.Lieutenant Colonel James M. Inks of the United States Air Force flew 135 combat missions during twenty years of his distinguished military service. His Liberator bomber was forced to go down in Yugoslavia in July of 1944 as he was flying his 43rd mission, last mission during World War II. Inks and his fellow airmen would stay in Yugoslavia for 10 ½ months after being rescued by the Chetniks. He witnessed firsthand what was going on in Yugoslavia as he traveled with the Chetniks. Three of those 10 ½ months were spent directly with General Mihailovich near Loznica. Lt. Col. Inks would learn much about both the General and his forces and kept a diary during his time in Yugoslavia. This diary would later be published in book form in 1954. Eight Bailed Out, published by W.W. Norton & Company, New York, is the story of an American airman’s experience in World War II Yugoslavia among the people who were fighting not just for their lives against the Axis occupier but for the integrity and future of their nation after the war.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 16, 2008 7:52:05 GMT -5
Winston Churchill Regrets Decision to Abandon Mihailovich Even after General Draza Mihailovich was abandoned by the Allies, he and his forces continued to aid them, which is probably the single most significant indicator of the nature of his character. Unfortunately, despite the aid that he had given to the British, continued to give to the British and the British lives he saved, the disinformation campaign against him continued. Richard Lamb, in Churchill as War Leader describes one such rescue operation and its aftermath: “Some British Liaison Officers traveled 150 miles from their operational areas in southern Serbia to Pranjani for evacuation. The party, after picking up rescued air crews, totaled 110 men, and they encountered no Partisans (Tito’s forces) on the march which was all through Chetnik held territory. Mihailovich’s troops defended the aerodrome against the Germans for their departure. On arrival in Bari, Italy, they were shown a map with pins showing the whole of their escape route held by Tito’s forces. An identical map was prepared for the Prime Minister by SOE in Cairo. The British Liaison Officers were so angry that they pulled out the pins. This shows how Klugmann in Cairo was duping his superiors.”Author Lamb summarizes his assessments of the Mihailovich-Allies problem with a review of how the Allies viewed this problem in immediate hindsight. He touches on the American role in the abandonment by writing: “Roosevelt had always believed Tito to be a ruthless communist, and he had never shared Churchill’s short lived enthusiasm for the man in late 1943 and early 1944. . .Churchill’s decision to back Tito against Mihailovich produced little if any military benefits and was a disaster for the people of Yugoslavia.”Lamb concludes that Winston Churchill himself knew this well and never denied it after the war was over. At a dinner in Brussels, Belgium in December of 1945, Churchill made the following comment, a comment which still resonates today: “During the war I thought I could trust Tito. . .but now I am aware I committed one of the biggest mistakes of the war.”Lest the “mistake” be attributed to Churchill being a “victim of deceit”, it is a fact that there were those British officials, both in London and on the ground in Yugoslavia, who witnessed first-hand what was going on and reported on it, who warned Churchill about Tito, and the misguided decision to abandon General Draza Mihailovich. As much as he was misled, when one looks at everything that transpired in those few years of war, one must conclude that Winston Churchill chose to be misled. After the war was over, Anthony Eden, head of the British Foreign Office in London, who had always believed in Mihailovich, stated unequivocally that “My biggest regret of the war was abandoning Mihailovich.”Even though Lamb attributes the abandonment of Mihailovich to Churchill being a victim of deceit, he does concede that this is a big mark against Churchill when one appraises his legacy as a wartime leader: “Churchill and his advisors had been misled by SOE in Cairo into believing that the Royalist guerrilla leader, Mihailovich, was collaborating with the Germans and fighting only against the Partisan communists under Tito. The reverse was true. Tito’s communists were not fighting the Germans, and his sole aim was to make Yugoslavia a communist state after the war. Against the advice of Eden and the Foreign Office, Churchill insisted on all-out support for Tito and none for Mihailovich. This was a disastrous error.”There is another implication in all of this, which is outside the realm that Lamb discusses, but that is integral to any discussion of this appraisal. Despite all the British provisions and support provided to Tito and his forces, despite the brutal bombings of Mihailovich positions in Yugoslavia by the Allies which compounded the tragedy of the betrayal and abandonment, and despite the fact that Mihailovich was not receiving help or aid from anyone in the world, Tito and his communists could not have taken Serbia from Mihailovich without the direct involvement of the Soviet Army and Tito knew that. Tito therefore insisted that the Soviets break the Yalta Agreement which prohibited foreign troops from entering Yugoslavia, by sending their Third Ukrainian Front into Serbia, and the Soviets complied. At the same time, the former Nazi troops of Bulgaria entered Serbia from the east. Finally, Tito’s partisans were able to successfully penetrate into Serbia and enter Belgrade after it was “liberated” by the Soviet troops. The reason this is relevant here is that had the British not built up Tito and his communists and abandoned Mihailovich and his freedom fighters, Yugoslavia may never have fallen to communism with all of the subsequent consequences that were to follow, consequences we see unfolding daily as the country succumbs to civil war today, a half century later. Richard Lamb has written an important work, if for no other reason but that he is a British historian who has honestly investigated and exposed certain historical facts about the role that the British leadership of his nation has played in the Balkan arena. Although he ends his analysis by concluding that “Churchill was a great wartime leader,” he does concede that: “Churchill falsified history. . . his memoirs are tendentious in places. . . he put pressure on the official historians in the Cabinet Office to conceal chunks from the archives. . . and many facets of the history of the war have been distorted.”
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 16, 2008 7:52:26 GMT -5
Adolf Hitler on Mihajlovic'Having in view the danger contained in the Mihailovich movement, I have already, in anticipation of all eventualities, issued orders for the destruction of all his supporters on the territory occupied by my troops. The liquidation of Mihailovich's movement at the present time will no longer be an easy matter because of the forces he has at his disposal.' (February 16, 1943)Heinrich Himler issues orders to destroy Mihailovich‘The basis of every success in Serbia and in the entire southeast of Europe lies in the annihilation of Mihailovich. Concentrate all your forces on locating Mihailovich and his headquarters so that he can be destroyed. Any means may be used to achieve this end. I expect the smoothest cooperation between all agencies concerned, from the Security Police and Security Service to all other branches of the SS and police. The head of the SS and police Meissner has already received instructions from me in this regard. Please let me know which clues we already have of Mihailovich’s whereabouts. Please inform me weekly about the progress of this action.’”Heinrich Himmler Nazi Commander of the SS and Gestapo July 17, 1942
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Post by SKORIC on Dec 16, 2008 10:30:24 GMT -5
Oh please. An Ustasa accusing Serbs of collaboration and killing jews. Oh the irony. A German military officer converses with Kosta Pečanac, the pre-war president of the Chetniks and Dazafer Deva (a collaborator from Kosovo) in Podujevo. Kosta Pecanac was a traitor who stayed loyal to Nedic. No one is defending Nedic here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks_of_Kosta_Pe%C4%87anacen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosta_Pe%C4%87anacNow lets see. Ustasa collaboration photos well ofcourse everyone knows that... Partizan collaboration photos. ("Slobodane, Slobodane, šalji nam salate; bit će mesa, bit će mesa - klat ćemo Hrvate!...") New aged Cetniks arent the same as WW2 Cetniks. Hrvatski informativni centar? whoa how reliable
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Post by radovic on Dec 16, 2008 12:29:13 GMT -5
Persecution of Jews in Serbia Lol. The fact that this site doesn't distinguish between Milan Nedic, Dimitrije Ljotic and Draza Mihajlovic clearly showes that it is not a reliable source.
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Post by radovic on Dec 16, 2008 12:49:24 GMT -5
The first experiments in mass executions of camp inmates by poison gas were carried out in Serbia, which became the first Nazi satellite in occupied Europe to proudly declare itself "Judenfrei" ("cleansed" of Jews). No. The first experiments on prison inamtes started in 1937 in Japanese occupied Manchuria by Units 731 and 515.
Not only that but the claim of Serbia being the first occupied country to declare themselves Judenfrei was Estonia not Serbia and Serbia was not declared "Judenfrei": the city of Belgrade was. It was declared such because 90% of the Jews lived in Zemun, which was part of NDH and the few who lived in non-occupied Belgrade were a small number.Bullshit. - Gelnhausen in Germany was declared such in 1938. - Luxembourg was in 1941. - All of Estonia was in 1941 and prudly posted as such ar the Wannsee Conference. - Belgrade was only declared such as nearly all the Jews lived in Zemun, which fell under the NDH not udner Serbia.Bullshit, there was no Government of Serbia there was the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Such measures were introduced in 1937 by the government of Milan Stojadinovic to get support of Croats for legislation he seeked to pass.Their main source is a communist propaganda book coming from the same institutiosn they denounce as being anti-Croat. They seem to bwe selective in what they denoucne and what they don't. Anyways. This source isn't credible since: 1. It doesn't distinguish between Draza's Chetniks and the other Chetnik movements. 2. It doesn't at all distinguish Draza from Dmitrije Ljotic and Milan Nedic, thus implying that Draza's Chetniks were part of the occupational puppet government. 3. This 100% propaganda source refuses to even deal with PartizAn collaboration.This lie has been debunked earlier, especially given that no Serb government actually existed at that time.This has nothing to do with Draza or his Chetniks, this ahs everything to do with Milan Nedic and more specifically with Dmitrije Ljotic the main National Socilaist in Serbia at the time and so-popular that in the 1938 he obtained barely 1000 votes -- Ivo Goldstein, pro-Croat Jew has stated this in some of his articles.
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Post by SKORIC on Dec 16, 2008 14:39:06 GMT -5
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Dec 16, 2008 18:34:10 GMT -5
why dont you just post a link to skoric's thread, instead of spamming this thread, by quoting the whole of skoric's thread in this one. as.sholes.
cetniks and nazis collaborating together,.... the big cumstain that all the serbs wanna hide, lol. seig hail
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CiKoLa
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Gotovina Heroj!
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Post by CiKoLa on Dec 16, 2008 19:00:38 GMT -5
^^ aint that the truth
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Post by srbobran on Dec 16, 2008 19:09:32 GMT -5
Isn't Cikola and Ustasa? He views his nation's collaboration with Nazi Germany as a positive thing. Don't you see, he's complementing us.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Dec 16, 2008 19:53:27 GMT -5
^^ im dispelling the myth that the cetniks were pro-Allied, and anti-fascist. They collaborated with the Nazi's and the Italian fascists and were very much allied with the axis forces. They committed some of the worst crimes seen under that premise. Their leader Draza was the worst one, and was executed after being found guilty of treason (collaboration with the Nazi forces) and was hung by the partisans.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Dec 16, 2008 21:33:20 GMT -5
Serb-American Lieutenant Nick Lalich(НИКОЛА ЛАЛИЋ, an American of Serbian heritage), with Draza Mihailovich. Photograph taken in September 1944 when Lalich "helped US Army Lt. Col. Robert H. McDowell" who wrote the famous Report to the OSS claiming he "never saw any type of collaboration between Mihailovich and the Germans" and "did notice however how much Draza hated them."
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 16, 2008 21:39:32 GMT -5
why dont you just post a link to skoric's thread, instead of spamming this thread, by quoting the whole of skoric's thread in this one. as.sholes. Because it wouldn't have the same powerful effect in presenting the overwhelmingly positive side of the Cetniks. It's also generally Cikola's favourite tactic so that's where Ithe idea came from. cetniks and nazis collaborating together,.... the big cumstain that all the serbs wanna hide, lol. seig hail I already used a coffee stain metaphore, & when you balance out all the posts, when you balance out the philosophy & majority actions of the Cetniks, that’s what Cikola has. I know you're capable of recognising that.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Dec 16, 2008 22:20:00 GMT -5
Cetniks with Nazi officers - 1942
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Dec 16, 2008 22:21:48 GMT -5
Cetniks fascists pose with Italian fascist officers
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Post by SKORIC on Dec 17, 2008 0:28:47 GMT -5
When a non-ustasa accuses Cetniks of being collaborators ill gladly argue. But this is just too funny
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Post by SKORIC on Dec 17, 2008 0:33:20 GMT -5
why dont you just post a link to skoric's thread, instead of spamming this thread, by quoting the whole of skoric's thread in this one. as.sholes. cetniks and nazis collaborating together,.... the big cumstain that all the serbs wanna hide, lol. seig hail Why shouldnt he? Would any of you open the link? No, so he's pasting it in this thread like Cikola was spaming pics too. You cant handle the truth when its right infront of your face so you complain that he's spamming tsk tsk
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