Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jan 9, 2009 13:53:56 GMT -5
nema to partly.. nemoze sad u jednom gradu balkanac, a 20km dalje ko fol nije.... U balkanu je i uvjek je bila.. sad ako se oni ne osjecaju balkanci eh sta cu im ja... Zivim i ja u skandinaviji pa se ne osjecam skandinavac vec kinez,....
Crnogorci piju vina, Hrvatima gemisht prija, u Srbiji sljivovica a u Bosni hladna pivaaa
Post by occamsrazor on Sept 25, 2009 5:25:28 GMT -5
'Balkan' has developed a negative connotation. Even in English political language we speak of 'balkanization' as a negative. It means that groups will splinter and fight each other. The term 'ethnic cleansing' is often associated with 'Balkan' too.
Basically the image people draw up in their heads could be similar to the American legend of Hatfields and Mccoys. Basically, rival pig farmers and hillbillies shooting carelessly at each other for encroachment but they live together cheek and jawl. Anti-civilized in other words.
Many people in Croatia are eager to get away from this association where the 'Balkan culture' is clearly visible in neighboring countries such as Bosnia and Serbia but also very present in large parts of Croatia. Also , historically , Balkan is associated with Ottoman rule where Croatia was mostly part of the 'Western' powers and Ottoman is considered backwards to the Western Enlightenment in which a lot of Croats feel that Croatia was apart of.
Its silly to make a big deal of it really. I mean , its very clear that many parts of Croatia are virtually indistinguishable from Bosnia and Serbia in terms of culture. The people are remarkably similar.
I think that the term "Balkan" has negative vibe. It has developed derogatory connotations, and as a Croat I certainly don't want any part of it.
The word "Balkan" is non-European anyway, meaning mountain in Turkish.
Croatia identifies it's self way more with Central Europe than it does with it's Southern and Western neighboring countries so why should it associate itself with the "armpit" of Europe as some have referred to it. It's a scapegoat term that lumps unrelated peoples together that not only look different but are culturally different and speak different unrelated languages. The term is useless and should be abandoned IMHO.
^ this is a complex that is common with my community (croats) . some of them have this notion that we have nothing to do with the balkans, we are central europe, bla bla. this is stupid, but they have the right to think what they like.
the only part of croatia that is geographically or culturally part of central europe is panonian croatia. croastal and southern croatia have nothing to do with central europe. geographically its part of the balkans, and culturally its italic/latin and balkan influenced,... the coast being italic/latin in culture, and the hinterland being balkan in culture. these are facts, which some croats pretend like it doesnt exist or ignore.
yes it is true that croats generally look to the north , because of political reasons, being that we have strong political relations with hungary and austria, and have next to no politcal relations with italy, and with all our balkan neighbors, our relations have been unstable.
political aleigences have nothing to do with culture and geography. this is something some croats dont understand, and in the process make themselves look dumb in the eyes of non-croats.
the word "balkan" may be turkish in origin, and in the end the word is not important. you can call it the ancient greek word for the region "Haimos" or just "southeast europe" ,.... the same arguments still apply. it doesnt make a difference.
also, most of panonian croatia was under ottoman turkish rule for a significant period of time aswell. the only parts they didnt rule was the area west of virovitica and cazma (zagorje) , and not any closer than the outskirts of karlovac and sisak.
ottoman empire ruled slavonia for 160 years. ottoman towns were built. osjiek had three mosques. there was a significant number of croat converts to islam there during ottoman rule. once the ottoman empire lost this region, all the traces of ottoman presence were destroyed, and the islamized croats of slavonia left to BiH and sandzak.
lets not forget that BiH is tied to croatia historically, as it is croatian historical land, and our ethnic catholic croat brethren reside there, aswell the islamzied croats who are now known as bosniaks. croatia will always be tied to BiH, and its land, history and culture is also ours aswell. throughout history croatia's capital used to be in BiH towns of duvno/tomislavgrad, bihac and banja luka.
also, not forgetting the fact that croats from dalmatian hinterland, bosnia and herzegovina, who are all culturally and geographically balkan, have migrated throughout history to pannonian croatia, aswell as the croatian bunjevci who have strong vlach origins.
all these factors point to the undeniable fact that croatia is geographically, historically and culturally part of the balkans.
Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 12, 2010 12:10:21 GMT -5
I wonder, what do central Europeans consider Croatia to be? I think Croatia is no more Central European than Serbia. Both countries have extensive portions that were ruled by Austria-Hungary for prolonged periods of time and have altered the culture from the differing areas.
Eitherway, Central Europe is little more than the Hapsburg dynasty's sphere of realm. It is largely composed of those areas deeply influenced, and largely controlled, by either German or Austrian rule/culture. Either you are a Balkanian or you are a German-Austrian bich. ;D
Last Edit: Apr 12, 2010 12:16:54 GMT -5 by todhrimencuri
Post by oszkarthehun on Oct 16, 2010 19:56:10 GMT -5
this is a complex that is common with my community (croats) . some of them have this notion that we have nothing to do with the balkans, we are central europe, bla bla. this is stupid, but they have the right to think what they like.
why is it stupid. Geographically I would agree Croatia is in Balkans but culturally and in terms of cultural influences I dont agree that it is entirely Balkan.
you made some good points in your post, but when people talk of say Croatia or Slovenia as being non Balkan or less Balkan it relates to the Westward looking outlook and yes connections with Central Europe. Croatia was closely connected with Hungary for 800 odd years it was actually part of Hungarian Kingdom for that long and Hungary was not considered Balkan and was politically and culturally more central European influenced, I think it cannot be denied that this also applied to Croatia to certain extent.
Croatia is heterogeneous as are its neighbors. Extremists on both sides of the argument go to the point of absurdity. We should have a clear definition of what "Balkan" and "Central European" are first. Croatia is the place where you see a 'Balkan twist' to primarily Central/Western European culture. The people are mentally very similar to their Balkan neighbors but indulge the Italian and German variety too.
rex362: Goal ⚽ ⚽ ⚽ ⚽ 🇦🇱Shaqiri - 🇷🇸 Serbia 3-2
Dec 3, 2022 14:51:32 GMT -5
Rusyn: lmao too bad that Shaqiri guy have nothing to do with Albania. he lives in Switzerland and his origin is from Kosovar Albanians, Kosovo is part of Serbia, so yeah Swiss Albo-Serb beaten ordinary Serbs
Dec 3, 2022 16:28:12 GMT -5
Emperor AAdmin: Sorry Rexxy, that is just a win for Swiss. Plain and simple. Where certain players origins are from ... who cares... it was all for swiss colors my friend...I am afraid noone is connecting Albanians to this game in any shape or form hahahaha
Dec 4, 2022 20:42:53 GMT -5
Rusyn: Who knows, maybe they think Switzerland is part of Albania also
Dec 5, 2022 0:52:38 GMT -5
rex362: oh the politics of football.......ok then ....dont let me find you as being hypocrites if I find/see any post of you highlighting any serbian players on any other countries sport teams
Dec 5, 2022 11:16:33 GMT -5
rex362: fricken hooligans
Dec 5, 2022 17:15:17 GMT -5