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Post by Unleashed on Feb 10, 2009 19:50:03 GMT -5
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 20:18:05 GMT -5
Jednostavno Amerkanci i sama americka administracija nemaju bele veze o nacionalnosti. Po njima je ako si rodjen u Hrvatskoj onda si ti Hrvat isto kao sto ako si rodjen u Americi ti si Amerikanac (bez obzira sta su ti otac i majka po nacionalnosti). Te dokumenti su verovatno nastali pocetkom 20. veka (kada je bila velika seoba sa nasih prostora), a tek tada Amerikanci nisu pojma o drzavama i nacijama u njima.
Najnoviji primer: meni u green card-u pise: country of origin: Serbia and Montenegro a dobio sam je pre 2 meseca?!
Jedan stariji primer. 2002 godine otisao sam u Americku ambasadu, dam im pasos na kojem pise Jugoslavija. Pita me sluzbenica: Odakle si? Kazem: Jugoslavija, pise na pasosu. Ona meni: Jugoslavija ne postoji. Ja: Kako neka drzava koja ne postoji moze da bude prvak sveta u kosarci i to je bas postala u sred USA (Indianapolis 2002).
Jos jedan slican dogadjaj u slicno vreme. Pita mene jedan Amerikanac: odakle si? Ja rekoh ajde malo da se pohvalim pa ga priupitam jel prati kosarku? Kaze:da. Ja ga ga pitam: Ko je svetski sampion u kosarci. I on meni ladno kaze: LA Lakers.
Ja mislim da to dovoljno govori o Amerikancima i njihovom znanju.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Feb 10, 2009 20:35:17 GMT -5
Ne mislim da ti Amerikanci biraju etnicitet, ti moras sam potvrditi sto si.
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Post by Unleashed on Feb 10, 2009 20:35:32 GMT -5
U to vrijeme ljudi su mogli napisati stagod hocu. Kao naprimjer ovaj : img146.imageshack.us/img146/9263/el3wd8.png...iz Madjarske a ne Hrvatske. Sam je upisao svoje etnicko podrijetlo kao svi drugi. Nije trebao 'Hrvat' staviti niti 'Madjarac.' Da je se izjasnjavao kao Srbin potpisao bih. U to vrijeme Hrvatska je bila sastavni dio Austarsko-Ugarskog carstva. Inozemstvo nije priznalo Hrvatsku kao samostalnu drzavu. Al vidis jos se pise koje je etnicko podrijetlo.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 20:40:14 GMT -5
Ne mislim da ti Amerikanci biraju etnicitet, ti moras sam potvrditi sto si. Ja sam na primer napisao da sa iz Srbije a oni su napisali Serbia and Montenegro. P.S ja sam se do svoje 13. godine izjasnjavao kao Jugosloven a sada sam Srbin.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Feb 10, 2009 20:40:31 GMT -5
Koji ti je izvor? Izgleda photoshop....
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Feb 10, 2009 20:43:27 GMT -5
U to vrijeme je bila Austro-Ugarska, zato ne znam da li bi napravili slicnu gresku.
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Post by Unleashed on Feb 10, 2009 20:47:41 GMT -5
Koji ti je izvor? Izgleda photoshop.... Sva informacija je s ove stranice : www.ellisisland.org/ Morao sam staviti na imageshack zato sto ce vama trebati sifra da gledate direktno izvora.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 20:51:58 GMT -5
Koji ti je izvor? Izgleda photoshop.... Ma kakva photoshop to je microsoft paint. ;D Nema tu shta da se photoshopuje, to je prepisano i namesteno po zelji. Video sam ja originale tih dokumenata iz imigracionih luka, sve su pisane rukom i izgledaju ovako. I zaista kod mnogih srpskih imena iz Hrvatske pise nacionalnost Hrvat. Ti dokumenti izgledaju ovako: img483.imageshack.us/img483/9197/teslapetarvojnichrvat5zj.gifVidi se da nigde ne pise ethicity nego samo "Race of people" i pored nje jedan krstic. Pogledaj dole sta znaci krstic i bice ti jasno. Da dodam da su vecina tih doseljenika bili nepismeni niti da su pricali Engleski.
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Post by Unleashed on Feb 10, 2009 20:59:15 GMT -5
Tvoj izvor je pravi ali to sto sam ja stavio je legelna certifikacija na kraju procesa. Ne znam zasto bi Ellis Island stranica dokazala lazne dokumente. Stranica je non-profit zato nemaju cilj varati trazitelje.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 20:59:58 GMT -5
Evo pogledah i ja sajt. Potrazih neke svoje rodjake i naidjem na.......
First Name: Andrija Last Name: Nikolic Ethnicity: Uontenegrin Last Place of Residence: Cevsko, Nontenegro Date of Arrival: Nov 27, 1911 Age at Arrival: 21y Gender: M Marital Status: S Ship of Travel: Argentina Port of Departure: Trieste Manifest Line Number: 0023
"Ethnicity: Uontenegrin Last Place of Residence: Cevsko, Nontenegro"
Mislim da ovo dovoljno govori.
Sliku (image) nisam hteo da prebacujem nego sam samo C/P tekst.
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Post by Unleashed on Feb 10, 2009 21:06:33 GMT -5
Valjda je znacilo 'Montenegrin'
To samo dokazuje da su se neki ljudi osjecali 'Montenegrin' po etnickoj pripadnosti. Ovo je kruh za crnogorske nacionaliste. LOL.
Znaci bilo je crnogoraca koji nisu se osjecali srbima. Nije ni cudo. Tadasnja Crna Gora je imala vise etnickih naroda nego danas. ( Kao npr , bilo je puno Hrvata na sjevernoj obali)
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 21:11:03 GMT -5
First Name: Andria Last Name: Popovic Ethnicity: Turkish, Montenegrin Last Place of Residence: Bagnani Date of Arrival: Jun 15, 1905 Age at Arrival: 18y Gender: M Marital Status: S Ship of Travel: Hudson Port of Departure: Havre Manifest Line Number: 0010
Jos jedan 'biser" Andrija Popovic pa Turcin i to iz Banjana. Ko zna gde su Banjani znace da su tamo samo Srbi.
Jos jedan:
First Name: Yovan Last Name: Djukic Ethnicity: Nugarn, Magyar, Nugary Last Place of Residence: Silbas, Ungary Date of Arrival: Nov 29, 1910 Age at Arrival: 20y Gender: M Marital Status: M Ship of Travel: Niagara Port of Departure: Le Havre Manifest Line Number: 0026
Jovan Djukic a Madjar! Da je Madjar zvao bi se Istvan a ne Jovan.
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Post by Unleashed on Feb 10, 2009 21:18:00 GMT -5
First Name: Andria Last Name: Popovic Ethnicity: Turkish, Montenegrin Last Place of Residence: Bagnani Date of Arrival: Jun 15, 1905 Age at Arrival: 18y Gender: M Marital Status: S Ship of Travel: Hudson Port of Departure: Havre Manifest Line Number: 0010 Jos jedan 'biser" Andrija Popovic pa Turcin i to iz Banjana. Ko zna gde su Banjani znace da su tamo samo Srbi. Jos jedan: First Name: Yovan Last Name: Djukic Ethnicity: Nugarn, Magyar, Nugary Last Place of Residence: Silbas, Ungary Date of Arrival: Nov 29, 1910 Age at Arrival: 20y Gender: M Marital Status: M Ship of Travel: Niagara Port of Departure: Le Havre Manifest Line Number: 0026 Jovan Djukic a Madjar! Da je Madjar zvao bi se Istvan a ne Jovan. Nije tocno. U Hrvatskoj i susjednim slavenskim zemljama ima dosta Madjara koji se zovu 'Ivan, Darko, Drazen , etc.' Znam ih dosta. Sto jos imaju poslavenska prezimena. Logicno je da biraju slavenska imena u zemlji s vecinom slavenskih stanovnistva.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 10, 2009 21:18:08 GMT -5
A common myth promoted by the Serbian nationalistic agenda is that most Croats in Croatia are really 'Catholic Serbs.' They were indoctrinated Croats over time especially in under Ustasa rule. ? Ah, no we don't. You jigged the words around incorrectly. Most Serbs "migrated" to Croatia as Serbs. They already had the Serbian identity. There were also the Vlahs (meaning debatable) who it would seem mostly adopted Serbian identity. So Serbs in any case only could have converted to be Croats. ...back in the day though when the East & West Roman empires began to split we did not have the Catholic & Orthodox consciousness of today. Orthodoxy moved away from the popes control & it wasn't therefore an instant adoption of Orthodoxy by Serbs. The Serbian priesthood actually answered to the pope before Sveti Sava gained our independence. They did not immediately all move away from the popes control. So Serbs were actually Catholic as well before that became more engrained in Croat identity. This was definitely the case in Bosnia where it was more a case of the bans really just being nominally Catholic while the people were Serbian. That's why you hear Croats say "Bosnia was majority Catholic" & not "Bosnia was majority Croat." They're hoping nobody notices the documents referring to the Serbian language, Serbian people, Serbian laws of Bosnia. Well for a start those documents are obviously fake. Can't believe you didn't notice that. They're possibly reproduced but why don't they just have originals? But yeah look at their names... Stevan, Jovan, Dusan, Cedomir, Stefan, Simo, Stojan... They're Serbs under the Serbian Orthodox church in Croatia. There was no big hatred between Serbs & Croats in 1906. Krajisnici always had there own unique Serbian identity just as Serbs or Croats do from region to region. They may well have felt some affinity with Croatia but specific Croat identity no way. --------------- But we can't let this topic go without the ustase... who no doubt would have converted many a Serb to Catholicism & the Croat identity. There's stacks of photos showing Catholic ustase. It's crazy how much the Catholic church was involved. I think I saw a page with about a hundred pics of it. No need to bring that up. Putting figures on it is another thing though. There are some massive figures out there. As a Serb I honestly always hope the figures are smaller. Do a quick search & the first page will come up with over 200k Serbs converted. The croats even tried to start a Croatian Orthodox church in the early 90's. A sad indictment on the mentality of your people.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 21:21:14 GMT -5
Valjda je znacilo 'Montenegrin' To samo dokazuje da su se neki ljudi osjecali 'Montenegrin' po etnickoj pripadnosti. Ovo je kruh za crnogorske nacionaliste. LOL. Znaci bilo je crnogoraca koji nisu se osjecali srbima. Nije ni cudo. Tadasnja Crna Gora je imala vise etnickih naroda nego danas. ( Kao npr , bilo je puno Hrvata na sjevernoj obali) To samo dokazuje koliko su ti koji su popisivali a i oni koji su prepisivali nepismeni i koliko nisu imali pojma ni sta je Montenegro to jest nontenegro iliti ountenegro. ;D Pazi ovo: First Name: Ilinka Last Name: Blagojevic Ethnicity: Hungry Last Place of Residence: Russia Date of Arrival: Jul 17, 1914 Age at Arrival: 11m Gender: F Marital Status: S Ship of Travel: Aquitania Port of Departure: Liverpool Manifest Line Number: 0002 Ilinka Blagojevic a Madjarica. ;D To da je "kruh za crnogorske nacionaliste" se slazem sa tobom. Ali taj kruh potice iz "bezvezne pekare".
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 21:27:32 GMT -5
Nije tocno. U Hrvatskoj i susjednim slavenskim zemljama ima dosta Madjara koji se zovu 'Ivan, Darko, Drazen , etc.' Znam ih dosta. Sto jos imaju poslavenska prezimena. Logicno je da biraju slavenska imena u zemlji s vecinom slavenskih stanovnistva. Ziveh u Madjarskoj 22 godine (do pre jedno 3 meseca) i nisam naisao ni na jednog Madjara koji se zove niti Darko niti Drazen. Za Ivana sam (samo) cuo ali to ime su dobili (verovatno) po nekom Rusu. Ako se neko zove npr. Drazen Gyurcsan poverovao bi mu da je (delimicno) Madjar ali da se zove npr. Drazen Petrovic onda bi se samo nasmejao i okrenuo ledja. A ti? Jel bi mu poverovao?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 10, 2009 21:32:47 GMT -5
First Name: Sava Last Name: Segrt Ethnicity: Herzegovinian - Austria Last Place of Residence: Korjanice, Austria Date of Arrival: Apr 12, 1911 Age at Arrival: 33y Gender: M Marital Status: M Ship of Travel: Oceania Port of Departure: Trieste Manifest Line Number: 0018
Savo Segrt
Nacionalnost Hercegovac ili Austrijanac? Je bih rekao niti jedno niti drugo nego Srbin? A ti? Iskreno, sta bi ti rekao? Hrvat, Austijanac, Madjar ili Srbin?
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Post by SKORIC on Feb 11, 2009 1:12:49 GMT -5
lol those "passanger records" are computerised. Wheres the original scanned documents?
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Post by SKORIC on Feb 11, 2009 1:16:35 GMT -5
Also Serb orphan children being raised as Croats and baptised catholic because of the ustase, like my gf's deda.
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