|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:31:41 GMT -5
reposting here -------
terroreign
Aadmin, you truly dissapointed me with you saying you're a "montenegrin-serb" which does not exist in actuality, and is a make believe story created by Serbia...
Yes Montenegro's population are for the most part Illyrian in blood, you can see this from our culture and looks, not to mention our LANGUAGE, we Montenegrins possess 3 extra sounds in our language(Montenegrin), these sounds not being in any other language in the balkans
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:32:40 GMT -5
radovic
^ There is no montenegrin language. The simple fact is Montenegrin in Serbia and the Montenegrins that migrated to Sumadija drastically changing the language there affirms this (the language went from Torlak to modern Serbian).
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:33:32 GMT -5
terroreign
The simple fact there is a Montenegrin language, how the hell are we torlak speakers i dont understand a word of that...
Check the works of Marko Miljanov, Andrija Zmajevic, and Njegos, they never say serbian is their language
And if anyone believes pseudo-history it is you Radovic, you're a step away from being a erratic fascist with your beliefs...
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:34:40 GMT -5
radovic
you clearly can't read. I said the Montenegrins who migrated to Serbia called their language in Serbia & due to their massive migration they changed the speech in Serbia from being Torlak to modern day Serbian.
Miljanov published all his books with Belgrade publishers. Zmajevic never called his language Montenegrin. And Njegos was a Serbian nationalist.
Oh pls. go on about how Montenegrins are not Serbs, how the MOC is legitimate and so on. All of this shows your historical revisionism.
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:35:19 GMT -5
terroreign
Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
Miljanov died before any of his works were published, and Njegos was a Montenegrin nationalist, and viewed the term "serb" as a religious term for Orthodox christian
So can you provide any proof of any of them calling their language "serbian"? If not I believe you should not make such bold statements.
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:35:59 GMT -5
radovic
Clearly you don't know facts. The majority of Serbs in central Serbia are of Montenegrin origin due to Montenegrin emigration from the late 17th century onward.
The only areas where their wasn't major migration to was the southeast -- where Torlak is now spoken.
At least one of his works was published before he died.
Your second point is absurd. It clarly demonstrates your historical revisionism. It is as absurd as your claims: montenegrins say euro not evro.
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:36:44 GMT -5
terroreign
One fact is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about
I will not deny this, although you have yet to provide evidence, but it would explain why they use the gusle, which is a Montenegrin instrument, not a serbian one.
This did not effect language in the way you believe though, because the language of Montenegro back then was nothing close to standardized serbian, if not more distant than torlak, it was not until Vuk Karadzic's reforms that all people in Serbia started speaking Present-day Serbian, present day serbian is most similar to the speech in Sumadija-Vojvodina
No.
History supports this point, as do many people from Europe who went to montenegro before the 1900's
When reffering to the currency, they pronounce it "Euro", I can assure you
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 23, 2008 12:38:14 GMT -5
radovic
Actually. Sumadija spoke Torlakian. The speech in Vojvodina was more akin to Russian/Ukrainian then it was to modern day speech. It was distinct from Torlakian -- that speech now is dead.
It doesn't. All this confirms is the Montenegrin nation is ethnically Serb.
Well you've been proven wrong in this claim. Especially be Japodian.
|
|
|
Post by terroreign on Jan 23, 2008 14:06:27 GMT -5
Is that why Vuk Karadzic modeled the ekavian speech from the Sumadian and Vojvodina speakers? I guess you're saying that Montenegrins spoke ekavian and brought it to shumadija...wow you have no clue
Oh but it does, besides the dozens of foreign europeans who noted the Montenegrins as a race(Napolean included), others went more in depth with their description.
"Ako ga pitas sto je po vjeru, Crnogorac ce reci da je 'Srbin', a ako ga pitas sto je po narodnosti, rekne da je 'Crnogorac'." - Josef Holecek, 1876
Josef was a czech writer, he visited Montenegro several times and knew fluent serbo-croatian, he also wrote a book on Montenegrins as well as on various other cultures.
No I haven't, japodian said that Montenegrins do not say Europa, but Evropa, and I agreed
But mostly in the context of currency, Montes pronounce it "Euro"
Heres a montenegrin business interview
|
|
|
Post by radovic on Jan 23, 2008 14:14:56 GMT -5
Is that why Vuk Karadzic modeled the ekavian speech from the Sumadian and Vojvodina speakers? I guess you're saying that Montenegrins spoke ekavian and brought it to shumadija...wow you have no clue I'm saying Karadzic modeled his reform on speech outside of Serbia. Mainly on that of Herzegovina. That's absurd. Serb was never a word used to refer to followers of the Orthodox faith (the term was never used for Bulgarians, Greeks, Romanians -- all of whom are in the same region as Serbs). I do not believe that is an actual quote. The symbol fact is Montenegrins and Serbs are the same ethniticity, but seperate nations. The same grammer rules to Serbian & Croatian apply to Montenegrin. So that would mean if it's spelled evropa then euro would be spilled evro and you'd pronounce it evro.
|
|
|
Post by terroreign on Jan 23, 2008 14:30:30 GMT -5
No, you specifically said that he modeled it after Montenegro, and that Sumadija speakers spoke a Montenegrin dialect, both claims which are ridiculously false
It's not absurd, try to use your mind. Most Montenegrins did not have contact with the outside world for 100's of years, while their country was surrounded by the Ottoman Empire. They called Montenegrin Muslims, "Turks", not because they were ethnically turkish, but because they took their religion from turks
And Orthodox Montenegrins, "serbs", because they took their religion from the serbs.
Turkish was a adjective for Muslim, just as Serbian was for Orthodox. This is fact.
It's very real, research Josef Holecek, a very good writer and a Unibiased source who was in Montenegro.
Your "symbol fact" is something created by Serbia in the 1900's, and further harnessed in the 1990's.
If you saw the video, you'd hear them pronouncing the word "Euro", not "Evro", this fact is displayed further in that when I was in Montenegro myself, people said "euro"
|
|
|
Post by radovic on Jan 23, 2008 14:44:02 GMT -5
You specifically claim that the Serbs in Hercegovina are Montenegrins. The Karadzic's migrated to Serbia from the Hercegovina-Montenegro border areas. he based the language on the speech he & other migrants from Montenegro/Hercegovina spoke.
I didn't say that about Sumadija speakers. I said the montenegrin migrations to Sumadija changed the speech from Torlakian.
The first (turk=Muslim) is a fact. The Serb case is not a fact. Second, even if that were the case that would not explain the views of Njegos I that the Serbian empire should be re-created. If they only received their religion from the Serb why would they have such clearly "Serbian nationalist" desires.
absurd. Given that even before the 1800's the leadership of the montenegrins was talking about the Serbdom iof Montenegro.
That is not how montenegrins see it. If that's the case then they are purposely for what ever reason (to seem western) saying it like that or they have some weird speech impediment.
If it is pronounced euro then why on earth is it spelled evro.
Fourth. If the euro is so promenently pronounced euro in Montenegro and not evro then how come every time they refer to euro-atlantic integration they spell it evro-atlantski shouldn't it be euro-atlantski. Or evrope shouldn't it be europa.
|
|
|
Post by terroreign on Jan 23, 2008 19:29:57 GMT -5
I was specific in that it's the serbs of Trebinje, not all of hercegovina, although Hercegovina was part of ancient Duklja, so was Northern Albania... He based the jekavian dialect from Hercegovina speakers, the Ekavian dialect from Vojvodina/Sumadija speakers Vuk did not include the true Montenegrin dialect in his studies or reform, because he saw it had 3 extra sounds, and would break his "write how you speak" rule. Nonsense, show some proof saying that ijekavian speakers turned Torlakian speakers into Ekavian speakers... As is for Serb=orthodox, were you in Montenegrin in 1876? I know Josef Holecek was. Njegos was a writer, he wrote books of fiction and wrote about serbs similar to how the Ancient Romans wrote about the Greeks. But he never spoke in his own words about any Serbian empire.. He never had any, though after Njegos' death there were a number of Serbian writers who were in Montenegro, they falsified a number of Njegos' works and added/deleted many phrases and such to make it more serb oriented. Never happened, I can give you quote upon quote of the Petrovic-Njegos' speaking of the "Montenegrin Nation" and "Montenegrin Race" and "Slavic blood" You have no knowledge to say this. No, it is most likely due to the fact that we've had the Euro as our currency for almost a decade and we pronounce it like it says on the Bill Serbs and Croats pronounce it Evro because their nations do not use this currency, and are not as familiar with it www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=eura+cg.yu&btnG=Google+SearchJust to rub it in your face.
|
|
Anthologic
Amicus
"Lord of all Reality"
Ha!
Posts: 1,237
|
Post by Anthologic on Jan 24, 2008 2:02:52 GMT -5
oh... you're still here?
|
|
|
Post by radovic on Jan 24, 2008 10:28:25 GMT -5
He didn't use those 3 extra sounds because those sounds were not in common usage. They were used little by Montenegrin migrants to Serbia. The same can be said of the speech spoken in Sumadija at the time before the arrival of Montenegrin & Hercegovian migrants contained extra sounds that Karadzic got rid of: Njegos II (the writer) idiolized the Serbian empire. Njegos I (his predecessor) talked of recreating the Serbian empire in the long-term (short term he wanted the areas from Kotor to Ragusa(dubrovnik) to be incorporated into Montenegro). Absurd. I don't care if he talked of Slavic blood -- that proves nothing especially since you have claimed Montenegrins aren't Slavic. 1st of all Montenegrins being a nation proves nothing. The Montenegrin nation is a Serb nation. Look at Canada or America. They are both nations, but there is no such thing as a "Canadian/American" ethnicity. Just to rub it in your fact. But the vast majority of websites have been published in a little over the last 2.5 years. That means one of things: - Since that is the time frame in which the movement for a "Montenegrin language" was adopted by the Montenegrin government it means that the Montenegrin government adopted the terminology you speak of in the last 2.5 years. That would mean that the only reason they adopted this terminology is to try to distinguish their supposed language from Serbian. I guarantee you that eventually they will such doing such obscure things like renaming helicopters & other words to try to "purify" their supposed language. Second. Claiming Serbs & Croats don't know about the euro is absurd. Their are more Euros in Serbian & Croatian banks then their ever was money in Montenegro since you adopted the Euro. Third. The Euros only been in circulation for 6 years.
|
|
|
Post by Sh1 Shonić on Jan 24, 2008 13:43:54 GMT -5
"Serbs and Croats pronounce it Evro because their nations do not use this currency, and are not as familiar with it" Hrvati kazu Euro a ne Evro isto kao sto ne kazu Evropa nego Europa. www.24sata.hr/news/clanak/tisucu-eura-kazne-jer-je-hrvaticu-nazvao-ustasom/16446/www.gradimo.hr/2332.aspx"Vuk did not include the true Montenegrin dialect in his studies or reform, because he saw it had 3 extra sounds, and would break his "write how you speak" rule." Koja su ta tri zvuka/slova? I ako mozes da mi kazes po 5 reci u kojima se ti zvukovi/slova koriste? I ako je Njegos bio Crnogorac sto nije koristio ta tri slova? Gutenberg zaboravio da mu donese iz Nemacke? )) ""Ako ga pitas sto je po vjeru, Crnogorac ce reci da je 'Srbin', a ako ga pitas sto je po narodnosti, rekne da je 'Crnogorac'." " A da je slucajno pitao Grka sta je po veri on bi mu rekao Srbin?!?!?!? ))) "
|
|
|
Post by terroreign on Jan 25, 2008 4:08:48 GMT -5
But they were and still are today, the 3 are a inseparable part of the Zeta-sanjak dialect.
Vuk instead used the Hercegovina dialect which does not include these sounds, and is pretty different from normal Montenegrin speech.
There is actually proof on the contrary, that he viewed Serbs as Occupiers equal to the Turks.
Never happened.
Well you should care, if he talks constantly about the Montenegrin race, and slavic blood, with no mention of Serbs then that means you're wrong
Serbs are only mentioned when dealing with topics of religion.
|
|
|
Post by radovic on Jan 25, 2008 10:22:18 GMT -5
Those sounds are obscure and not used in regular speech. Plus, they are similar to other sounds. The equivalent to claiming a montenegrin language would be claiming an "American" language because unlike include the letter Z is pronounced Zee and not Zed.
Absurd. AADMIN proved to you in the Bosnia forum of Njegos's pro-serb views.
Actually it did.
you are a nation, yes you have a country. You are not a race or ethniticity.
You have a unique culture -- hence why your a nation. you do not have a unique language.
It's 6 years. The currency went into circulation of January 1, 2002. That means that 2008 would mean'
Buty I guess you failed grade 1 math.
This just affirms that Njegos spoke Serbian and not your claimed "Montenegrin" lnaguage.
Ljudi na Kipru isto zvali Italijana Latini. To nije neki fenomen.
|
|
|
Post by Sh1 Shonić on Jan 25, 2008 12:48:05 GMT -5
"Œ,,З, Œutra, Œekirati, Œediti, IŸediti, IŸaviti, IŸelica, Bronзin"
Kaze se Sjutra, sjediti, Izjelica.....
Ili npr .. Shjutra ali mi imamo i slovo sh.
Ti medjuglasovi/medjuslova su namerno izmisljeni samo da bi billo neke razlike sa Srpskim jezikom.
|
|
|
Post by terroreign on Jan 25, 2008 17:00:45 GMT -5
"Kaze se Sjutra, sjediti, Izjelica"
To je kako je pisano danas, ali nije kako ljudi uglavnom zbore
A zasto imate slovo Dž, to ti je Ð i ž,
I Ś nije isto kao "Shj" jer vise zajedno govoriti, slicno kao i Albanski "q"
|
|