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Post by Duke John on Feb 11, 2008 7:29:05 GMT -5
"denying our autochthony" Tell Coon not me: Physically, the people looked more European than any others I had seen in the Middle East, both in their facial features and in their clothing. Many of them particularly resembled northern Albanians, a people whom I had studied in 1929 and 1930 and I soon saw one reason why. In Albania, mothers strap babies to cradles, which they carry with them as they go to the market or go about their work. Although the infants’ heads are no bound, the immobilization of their shoulders forces them to lie on the back of their heads. As a result the heads are flattened in infancy and this condition is retained throughout life. As soon as I saw a pair of young mothers carrying their babies in such cradles, I knew why these people looked so much like Albanians. Here was a surviving culture closely linked to the origins of European civilization, lived in by a people of European physical type, in the one part of Iran which has enough rainfall to preserve the forest on which its technological aspects depended. There could be no question of this culture having come from Europe. The whole trend of history has gone in the opposite direction. He is talkin about some other people and comparing it to Europeans,so what is your point really? where it says that Albanians came from that specific place he is talkin about?
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Feb 11, 2008 7:29:17 GMT -5
"denying our autochthony" Tell Coon not me: Physically, the people looked more European than any others I had seen in the Middle East, both in their facial features and in their clothing. Many of them particularly resembled northern Albanians, a people whom I had studied in 1929 and 1930 and I soon saw one reason why. In Albania, mothers strap babies to cradles, which they carry with them as they go to the market or go about their work. Although the infants’ heads are no bound, the immobilization of their shoulders forces them to lie on the back of their heads. As a result the heads are flattened in infancy and this condition is retained throughout life. As soon as I saw a pair of young mothers carrying their babies in such cradles, I knew why these people looked so much like Albanians. Here was a surviving culture closely linked to the origins of European civilization, lived in by a people of European physical type, in the one part of Iran which has enough rainfall to preserve the forest on which its technological aspects depended. There could be no question of this culture having come from Europe. The whole trend of history has gone in the opposite direction. ;D ok Drachi Pazar, you are using WEB of your psycho Hajduke that he manipuling every words from original articles did you read in your eyes Coon? Coon acceptet origin illyrian of Albanians (Read book of him: The Giants) and he never deny autochthony of Albanians not he but also others antropologs never denied.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 11, 2008 7:35:02 GMT -5
I see no sources from all of you, l've spent too much time listening to made up spin talk....l've got to go because l've got to finish off a building design before by manager kicks my butt.
I believe l have made my point regarding coincidences.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Feb 11, 2008 7:39:36 GMT -5
I see no sources from all of you, l've spent too much time listening to made up spin talk....l've got to go because l've got to finish off a building design before by manager kicks my butt. I believe l have made my point regarding coincidences. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH you killing us Novi ;D re-read all my posts and yours...you will see I responsed with Sources while you asnwered with non-sources and of course you losed like every time.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 11, 2008 7:40:28 GMT -5
"About arab origin : text by Evlija Čelevija ,from 17.century.. Quote: ... Jabal-i Alhama, ancestor of the Albanian people..since they are descended from the Quraysh tribe of the Arabs. Accordingly, the Albanian people boast that they are from the Quraysh, the companions of the Prophet"
I thought l would add this in for terro for some fun.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 11, 2008 7:45:04 GMT -5
The majority of the toponyms in the Balkans are of Greek and Roman origin with the exception of some settlements with very ancient names, for example, Singidunum, the Scordian name for Belgrade, but this is completely understandable given the long duration of established Greek and Roman themes or provinces in the Balkans. Since it is the relationship between Albanian and Slavonic toponymy which interests us, however, we shall devote the following pages to this. Let us repeat, citing yet one more source, the fact about Illyrian illiteracy: "Since the IIlyrians and Dardan did not develop literacy in their language the only written memorials of theirs which remain to us are Greek and Roman inscriptions on stone..." 21 This will make it easier for us to understand the above-cited detail that the predominant toponomy was Graeco-Roman. With the penetration of the Slav tribes, however, in the main starting from the fifth century AD, Slav toponyms spread more and more, reaching also to the south of the Balkans. By the ninth century, a great part of present day Albania was already covered with Slav, mostly Serbian, toponyms. We will show the extent and duration of this phenomenon according to the results of our investigations which demanded much patience but which enabled us to gather an imposing number of several hundred Slav toponyms in Albania from maps (scale 1:100,000 & 1:200,000) of the 1920s and 1930s. We rejected all those toponyms which underwent linguistic change, that is, Albanization, whereby the Slav form was altered in its outward expression. In order to avoid any confusion we have retained only those names whose form still shows today their origin and there are over three hundred of these "pure" toponyms which we shall now list. Baba Babin Babinja Babja Balaban Banja Bastare Bastrice Bezani + Belgrad Belice Belje Belove Belovode Berzeste Bistric Biserka Bistrica Bistrice Blace Bobostice Bodin Bodriste Bordani Borici Borje Borova + Borovjani Bradosnica Bratomira Breska Bresnik Brezdan Brostani Budisa Bukmira Buzgara Valjana Valjusa Varvara Veles Veljcan Gora Vernica + Vila Vodica Vojnika Vrakule Vranista Vranista Vrepska Vulcani Gabrica Gajtani Glava Gline Golem Golemi + Golik Goloberdo Goljovisti Gorica Goroselj Gostiviste + Grabom Grabova Grabove Grabovice Grabovo + Gradac Gradec Gradiste Gradiskije Grazdani Grazdenik Graliste Gracen Gracani Grace Grozdani Gruda Darda Debrova Desmira Dobra Dobric Dobruna + Dragan Dragavoja Draginje Dragobija Dragostun Dragove Dragus Draci Dracove Drasovice Drenove Drovjani Drugana Dusmani + Dvoran Oeriste Zepa Zupiste Zagora Zagorican Zagradec Zagradi Zagradcani Zapat Zaradiste Zavaljan Zvezda Izviri Izgara Izgoralec Jablanit Janjan Jezerces Jerka Jubica Kamare Kamenica + Kamicani Kamnik + Kapica Karista Kasarna Kilaziste Klena Klenja Klisari Kovaci Kovaciste + Kovacica Korite Kosan Kosina Kosmaci Kosovec Kosovo Kosteni Kostenja Kostican Kotor Kosarista + Kosovica Krajni Krasta Krstac Kula Lepusa Leskova Leskoviku Leskovinu Lesnica Lestice Livadasi Livadi Likova Lisan Lovina Lozani Logavista Lopusa Lubinja Ljesani Ljivadi Ljubonje + Mali Mucalj Maliseva Malibarde Malina Manastirec Memlista Mecka Milica Miljusi Mirovna Mocani Moglice Mogra Monastir Negovani Nepravista + Niksi + Nikolara Nikolica Nikoijica Nivice Novasela Novoselo Oblika Osojna Padina Pastani Pepeli Pestani Plana + Plovista Podgora Podgorani Podgori Podgoria Podgradec Pogradec Pojata + Polidani Poposina Porobani Potkozani Prekal Prekali Prenista Prodani Radan Radicina Radimiste Radimniste Rajce + Rahovice Rastan Rec Redi Recit Rodokalj Rovica Sama Sanista Sebista Selca Selec Seleka Selence Selenica + Sepetova Slabinje Slatina + Slova Sopot Sovjani St. Javore Stani Staravec Stare Starov Starova + Stebilova Stranik Strelca Suha Suhodoli Sv. Dimitrije Ternova Topljana Torovica Trasani Trebinje Treske Tresova Trosan Tuceni Ulova Uljmiste Ustinje Cerkovica Cernjeva Catiste Cesme Coban + Siroka Sistevac Skola Stit Sticeni Sumica (the + sign alongside the name of a place indicates that the same name appears on the maps two or more times for different places). We have already pointed out to our readers the fact that a not inconsiderable part of the fabric of the Albanian people is woven from the Slav people so that such a large number of Slav toponyms should come as no surprise. However, this is not a complete list of Slav, that is, Serbian toponyms. I have already said that only those forms which today point to a Serbian origin are given so that I draw the reader's attention to a precise map marked with Serbian toponyms on Albanian soil composed by the Bulgarian academic, A. Selisgev, for his book Slavyanskoe naselenie v Albanii, Sofia, 1931 and which was republished in the anthology Iliri i Albanci by the Serbian Academy of Arts & Sciences (SANU), Belgrade. 1988, p. 230. The knowledge that for decades the Albanian authorities have claimed there is no Serbian national minority in Albania, however, will probably remain an open wound for Serbs and probably the chasm born of these marked contradictions will continue to stimulate hurtful and painful memories of an altered and lost part of the Serbian people. With regard to Kosovo and Metohia, on the other hand, for which we have given detailed demographic and statistical data, the situation is different to an unbelievable degree. Namely, in that area there is not one single toponym whose origin could be found in the Albanian language. All of the toponyms in that area which in historical literature was designated as Old Serbia are either Serbian or Slavicised Roman names and the Shiptars who live there today call some villages either by names translated into Albanian or use some Turkish names arising from the time when these regions were under Turkish rule. This unique and indisputable fact that there are no Albanian toponyms in Kosovo and Metohia evidently does not fit in with the numerous demands, statements and wishes of the secessionist parties and chauvinistic Shiptars and Albanians because they have always constantly avoided this theme. www.kosovo.net/history/kosovo_origins/ko_chapter13.html"I thought the form of some of those Greek words did not exist in the Greek language, but okay, whatever. I guess you could try to explain the Romanian and Albanian words that the two languages share in common. Romanians and Albanians had no contact after 1200, but I'm not sure if those Vlachs could've given some of those words to them. The scholars agree that those words are Romanian, i.e. Daco-Romanian, not Romanian south of Danube." Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - On the territory of today’s Albania, as has already been confirmed by the most distinguished world scholars, from whom I have already mentioned some, first settled the Slavs. In 548 A.D. they enter also in Durrachium (Drach, Durrls). The Albanians come via Transylvania (Romania) and Bulgaria much later, IX-X century. In the meantime, understandably, the Slavs have already named all mountains, valleys, rivers, towns and villages, and built some new ones, giving them their own names. When the Albanians arrive on the Balkan and today’s Albania, there is nothing else they can do except to take those toponyms. A large part of Albania is flooded with serbian and macedonian toponyms. Just as an example I wish to mention the towns of Pogradec, Korça (Korcha), Çorovoda (Chorovoda), Berat, Bozigrad, Leskovik, Voskopoja, Kuzova, Kelcira, Bels and others. VD: - In the macedonian community little is known that more than 90 percent of the lexical fund of the albanian language are words taken up from other languages. You especially have analysed the subject of the “slavisms” in the albanian language. It would be interesting some more to be said about this? www.unitedmacedonians.org/macedonia/kaplan_english.htmlFood for thought.....l will see what some of the responses will be?
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Feb 11, 2008 8:05:26 GMT -5
ahuu again your serbian Kaplan Resulovic how many times responed your and how many should> 1) first of all have any Data Recording from Byzantines historian that slavs entered in Durres? Of Course no. 2) Babi, Babin ect are slavic? HAHAHAHAHHA (you dont know but i should learn you that Albania and Whole Balcan were under Bulgarian Empire more 80 years and there have just few bulgarian tomponimes 0.2 %) and this is normality like serbs have alot turkish tomponimes example like your Cities Novi Pazar is turkish name ect. 3) Albanian and Romanian words is normally common because we lived eachother before camed you barbarian/nomad serbs...this explain authoctonnly of 2 nations (Albanians and Romanians)
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Post by Duke John on Feb 11, 2008 8:35:09 GMT -5
I believe l have made my point regarding coincidences. Your poin was "POINTLES"
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Post by Duke John on Feb 11, 2008 8:37:13 GMT -5
NoviPazar! your little silly claim is pointless, my post explained how wrong you are. Now you made a mistake! its not "ICHQERIA"! the proper is "ICHKERIA" not with "Q" but with "K"!!! what is Ichkeria? The answer is: Ichkeria is the turkish form of Chechenia, the "Ichkeria" term is given buy ottoman turks just like turks called Albania as "Arnavutluk", Ichkeria is not even from Chechen vocabulary nor is the word Chechen! the Chechen term is moust propably the iranian form of "Nokhchi" the word the chechens call their selfs, they call them selfs as Nokhchi people because they believe that they have some connections with Noah. Albanians call their selfs "Shqiptar=sons of eagle" and Chechens call their selfs "Nokhchi = Noahs people" I see you typed with "Q" and twisted the two different words which have totally different meanings, and which do not even sound similar if they are properly written. You made another mistake! its not SHQIPTERIA! the proper is SHQIPËRIA if you refer to the name of the country, but if you refer to Eagledom then its SHQIPTARIA with "A" and not with "E"!, Shqiptaria = Eagledom, in serbian Orlovo?Orlovia? Shqipëria = Land of the Eagles, in serbian it means "ZEMLA ORLOVA" Shqiptar = Son of the Eagle, in serbian Sin Orlova! I am suprised of your knowledge, you really need to do some researches before you even claim something so Absurd like you did. Before you connect words you must understand that Albanian language comprises its own independent branch of the Indo-European language family with no living close relatives, Indo-European languages and Caucasian languages are of totally different structure, so making some absurd connections is pretty lame. Above you see how an absurd claim is made pointless,so what is your point Novi? denying our autochthony? When a serb try to deny our autochthony Aleksandar Stipcevic always comes in my mind. It does not matter from which tribe we got our name,celtic or what ever, what really matters here to every single Albanian is the fact that our ancestors from which present day albanian nation is formed were long before your ancestors arrived into balkans, we have enough facts to believe who and what we are, even if the ancestors of Albanians have been arrived 1 year before the serb we still would take pride on that!. There are many points why we Albanians are very proud, Our language is unque and independent branch of the Indo-European language family with no living close relatives. Our name have been mentioned in different versions such as Albanoi,Arbans... long before your ancestors even were close to Balkans, now imagine if the same mentionigs were aplyed to serbs!? wouldent you have enough proof to believe that you are autochthonous? i dont think so,if there was the same points mabe about serb existance in balkans like there is about Albanians im pretty shure you would be making noise nonstop about it. Here i made your absurd claim POINTLESS! Have a nice day!.
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Post by fannoli on Feb 11, 2008 11:31:28 GMT -5
FanNoli when l post l don't talk from my butt and lie.
Your correct there wasn't a large serbian ethno along the albanian adriatic, however Durres is the Albanianised version of Drach in Serbian.
Novi dont be an idiot. You have no expertise or idea of linguistics. Second of all just because you have a serbian version of Durres doesnt mean its serbian. and you got your statement all backwards.
What you meant is this:
Drac is a serbinized version of Albanian Durres. This statement is more correct considering the ethymology of the name is Albanian from original name Dyrrah-chium.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 11, 2008 17:32:56 GMT -5
^ Your telling me that l'm l have no idea of lingustics then how about you?, you shouldn't be telling me when u also have no idea.
"Drac is a serbinized version of Albanian Durres. This statement is more correct considering the ethymology of the name is Albanian from original name Dyrrah-chium."
Rubbish, show me evidence....l have above.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 11, 2008 20:55:52 GMT -5
"Nokhchi" the word the chechens call their selfs"
Your right!.....it least l admit and debate with an open mind!.
I remember awhile ago that some members here said that *shqiptar* commenced to be used when the ottomans arrived. Ichkeria has no meaning in chechen but shqiptar has a meaning in albanian.
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Post by srbobran on Feb 11, 2008 22:19:23 GMT -5
Tell me, if the Albanoi were the descendants of the modern day Albanians, than why do Albanians claim lineage from ALL of the numerous Illyrian tribes with whom the Albanoi may not have even had contact with. When the Sarmatian Serbs came to the Balkans, they were a minority. Many Illyrians were living on the Balkans and they gradually assimilated into Serbs and took up their name. The descendancy and bloodline remains the same. Former Yugoslavians have a majority Illyrian bloodline; hence the overwhelming majority of the Dinaric type in the F.Yugoslavia.
Here is a short text: (in addition to the one I posted earlier regarding Serbs and their usage of the Illyrian name).
The Serbs: descendants of the Illyrians
After the Turkish conquest of Europe a general veil was shed upon the Serbian people, their origins and prehistory. Even many Serbian historians, reformers and rennaisance figures, hoping to attract Russia to the plight of the Serbs began to emphasise and exhaggerate the Slavic character of the Serbs. They ignored historians, travellers, observers and even the people themselves who described the Serbian population as being ethnically Illyrian.
For example, Napoleaon, when he liberated the Dalmatian coats in the early 1800's, he formed the "Illyrian provinces" knowing full well that Illyrians inhabitted those territories. His colonel Vialla, in charge of the area visited Montenegro and wrote of the language that it is an "Illyrian dialect." A catholic population survey in the late 1870s on Macedonia identified that the people spoke the Serbian language and noted that ita was called 'Illyrian' (Tutti questi sono in Servia Superiore,e parlano lingua Illirica).
The Ban's Council, when inviting bids for the writing of a primer in the "Illyrian" language for elementary schools, emphasized that it should have chapters on the history of the Croats and Serbs, as well as of other "Illyrian peoples," that it must be so conceived as to respect all religions, "particularly western and eastern," and that it must offer some instruction in the Cyrillic script. In a Serb village in Istrian peninsula in 1593 the villagers rioted demanding that a priest be sent to preform church services "who knows the Illyrian language and script, and can sing in Slavonic."
Later on when the Serbian reformer Vuk Karadzic was chronicling the Serbs of Bosnia, he noticed that many of them called themselves Illyrians. He was puzzled and wrote: "To say that they are "Illyrians"; that is a dead and dark name, which today has no meaning, for all reknown historians know today that Slavs are not Illyrians..." Vuk automatically assumed the people of Bosnia to be pure Slavs. This could hardly be his fault as he was of limited education, and the fact that Slovophilism was in vogue and necessary at the time. Today we know that the people of Bosnia are not pure Slavs and are racially dissimmilar to Slavs.
In the 1820s a dictionary of the "Illyrian" language was published in Vienna based on the dialect of the Bosnian Serbs. In the mid 1800s Croats and Serbs formed an "Illyrian movement" to unite the "Illyrian peoples" in the Balkans. The movement was strong and led to eventual yugoslavism.
In the late 19th century, Albania became the focus of Austria's ambitions to keep the Serbian kingdom from gaining access to the adriatic. Austrian propaganda became aggresive in championing the Albanians as Illyrians. In Serbia, the power of pan-Slavism and the beliefe in Serbs as pure Slavs, prevented the Serbs from showing any great resistance to having their Illyrian roots stolen by Austrian and German propaganda.
With nobody to defend Serbian illyrianism, the Austrian theory prevailed, thus identifying the Albanians as Illyrians, and the Serbs as 'Slavic' newcommers. Albanians began to term themselves Illyrians only with the begining of the 20th century! However the fact must be noted that that Serbs were called Illyrians while the Albanians were still using their own respective tribal names to designate themselves. ------------------------------------
And yes, it has been proven that an extremely minute amount of toponyms in Albania are actually Albanian. I will post more info later.
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 11, 2008 23:04:38 GMT -5
When the Sarmatian Serbs came to the Balkans, they were a minority. Why do you identify the Serbs with the Sarmatians?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Feb 12, 2008 9:37:23 GMT -5
Drac is a serbinized version of Albanian Durres. This statement is more correct considering the ethymology of the name is Albanian from original name Dyrrah-chium. Does same stands for Kosovo and Metohija?
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 12, 2008 12:26:12 GMT -5
Drac is a serbinized version of Albanian Durres. This statement is more correct considering the ethymology of the name is Albanian from original name Dyrrah-chium. Does same stands for Kosovo and Metohija? Kosovo is Slavic, Metohija is from the Greek metochoi (μέτοχοι), meaning partners, partakers and refers to convents.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
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Post by rex362 on Feb 12, 2008 13:08:11 GMT -5
"Kosovo is Slavic, Metohija is from the Greek metochoi (μέτοχοι), meaning partners, partakers and refers to convents."
your sure its not MeTachi ...Me tachi at'e .......
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 12, 2008 17:29:45 GMT -5
I thought that Metohi(j)a in greek meant "Church's Land".
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Post by srbobran on Feb 12, 2008 18:11:20 GMT -5
Thats a pretty stupid question. The Serboi were Sarmatian.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 12, 2008 18:21:07 GMT -5
"I thought that Metohi(j)a in greek meant "Church's Land"." Bingo aadmin .....whats wrong with cognate? Aadmin please excuse me for ultimately taking this topic completely offcourse, l primarily did so to bait terro, which worked.
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