Rhezus
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DERZA STURIA TRAUS
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Post by Rhezus on Jul 31, 2009 12:58:33 GMT -5
Wonder why still almost 20 years nobody cares to create a new constitution. This should have been the first thing to take care of. Obviously it's better to remain unchanged. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by rusebg on Jul 31, 2009 14:09:05 GMT -5
Okay, will you two write down point by point what you expect from the new governement and what is to change immediately, after one month, then half a year, year, year and a half, etc. It is obvious the human kind as a whole is unable to satisfy you, let alone Bulgaria and anything (totally ANYTHING) that happens here. And being such sophisticated persons (unfortunately away from here, a terrible loss this one, can be compared to the capture of Levski by the Ottomans), please elaborate on what we ordinary Bulgarians should do.
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Jul 31, 2009 22:44:24 GMT -5
There are plenty of notable Bulgarians who have returned from foreign countries to make a change in Bulgaria, so I wish you would stop lording over the fact that you live in Bulgaria, that really does not make you better than Rhezus, me, or any other Bulgarian who lives abroad for that matter.
The fact is that 20 years after democratization, there is yet to be one notable investigation of the old communist politicians who are still around to commit crimes and the recent election of Borisov does not change that.
I have nothing against Borisov but let us not proclaim him a hero quite yet, as you said yourself it is going to take time for him to show Bulgaria what he really stands for.
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Jul 31, 2009 22:46:36 GMT -5
Wonder why still almost 20 years nobody cares to create a new constitution. This should have been the first thing to take care of. Obviously it's better to remain unchanged. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) They did create a new one in 1990 but that thing is so convoluted and vague that it makes absolutely no sense, it was created for the sole purpose of finding loopholes where the old communists can continue to manipulate government.
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Jul 31, 2009 22:48:47 GMT -5
What is the background of Turkish politicians then? Not a bodyguard or a fire-fighter. ;D No, more like military brutes, Turkey has had what, 10 coups since the 50s, I can't believe they still call it a democracy over there, especially with the way you guys treat the Kurds.
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Jul 31, 2009 22:58:34 GMT -5
Okay, will you two write down point by point what you expect from the new governement and what is to change immediately, after one month, then half a year, year, year and a half, etc. It is obvious the human kind as a whole is unable to satisfy you, let alone Bulgaria and anything (totally ANYTHING) that happens here. And being such sophisticated persons (unfortunately away from here, a terrible loss this one, can be compared to the capture of Levski by the Ottomans), please elaborate on what we ordinary Bulgarians should do. Ruse, you are so use to the corruption and crime that you honestly could not tell the difference between life with it or without it. The difference between those of you living in BG and those of us not has always been of perspective. To you a parliament filled with 1/3 crooks is an improvement from a parliament filled with 2/3 crooks.
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Aug 1, 2009 0:05:49 GMT -5
They did create a new one in 1990 but that thing is so convoluted and vague that it makes absolutely no sense, it was created for the sole purpose of finding loopholes where the old communists can continue to manipulate government. The new one came in force in 91. What exactly do u want to see changed? Our constitution is modern and democratic. Its not the problem in the constitution. Whats is written is not bad. How we implement the written text is the problem. Why create a Greater National Assembly. Ordinary one could change almost any text with the exeption of few fundamental ones like the human rights, change of borders etc. What concrete change do u want to see made?
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Rhezus
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DERZA STURIA TRAUS
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Post by Rhezus on Aug 1, 2009 2:59:58 GMT -5
Yes, I know the last one was with that purpose - finding room for even more "improvements". It stinks.. sh.it
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Post by rusebg on Aug 1, 2009 3:23:48 GMT -5
Would you be so nice to point out which parts of the constitution you find sh.it?
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Aug 1, 2009 6:28:29 GMT -5
confinder.richmond.edu/country.phpTake a read for yourselves. The text is vague, redundant at times, and leaves loopholes that you can drive a truck through. The overall structure of government needs to be cleaned up and the best place to start is the constitution. For one thing there need to be major changes to the judicial branch, there needs to be only one Supreme Court and not three, this creates the ability for the courts to pass the buck to each other without actually doing anything and also it creates jurisdictional issues, also private parties should be allowed to come before the Supreme Constitutional court unlike it is now where 1/5 of parliament deputies are needed. Ioan, our constitution is modern but nothing more than a lofty peace of paper. It has guaranteed citizens many rights but not made provisions for institutions to oversee that those guarantees are protected. In most countries the Supreme Courts protect rights but because there are three courts, cases get lost and miss handled. The way a constitution is written is vital to it's interpretation and thus how the government works which is why it needs to be changed, please read a good part of it and you will see what I am talking about. A Greater National Assembly is needed to accept an altogether new constitution, which I would say is needed. Again I'm talking about cleaning up the text and how it is written not removing rights, I mean how did we expect the former communists to create a working democratic constitution really, it needs to be changed now that we have more experience with democracy and can create a more manageable one, for gods sake our constitution is roughly three times longer than the US constitution despite our smaller size compared to the US, do you see the problem with that?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Aug 1, 2009 7:37:11 GMT -5
No, I do not see a problem with that. U can not compare USA and Bulgaria because the legal system is totally different. We are part of the continental (European) system, which is based on Roman law. The USA, together with UK, are part of the so called comon law system. As a whole their legal system is based on the court presedent (the decisions of the supreme courts are obligatory, smth like a legal act almost), so its logical their legal acts are shorter. Not to mention that USA is a federation of states. The constitution deals only with certain subjects/matters that the federation have the power to regulate: the others are dealt with by the states. One supreme court will never change the whole picture, in a way I think having 2 (not 3) supreme courts is better because the members are specialists in certain fields of law (civil and administative). The only thing for which a Greater National Assembly is needed is so that the figure of Greater National Assembly is removed from the constitution. I say it again: the constitution is very modern, almost all EU states can envy the rights etc. proclaimed in it. Its implementation is the problem.
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Aug 1, 2009 12:44:46 GMT -5
I am talking about simple length, not the basis of them. An overly long constitution leaves too much room for loopholes which is what prevents government from functioning properly. You did not address my issues of vagueness, redundancy or loopholes, what is your take on that? I strongly suggest you read it for yourself before you analyze it.
Really, you think two supreme courts are necessary? Please elaborate in detail how having two courts that can pass the buck to each other does any good for the country. For such a small state, two courts is fiscally unsound and simply unpractical and as I said before it creates jurisdictional issues which the constitution does not properly address.
Our constitution or state has nothing that any European state would envy, that is why we are sanctioned and the funds have been cut. All those great rights mean nothing when the constitution does not provide for a strong judicial system that can protect them.
A single powerful supreme court can change things because they are the guardians of rights in the successful democracies. A single strong court is better than multiple because there are no jurisdictional issues and authority is centered in one place rather than several.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Aug 1, 2009 13:13:43 GMT -5
I ve read the Constitution many times. I studied it very detaily, because I graduated law. There are no loopholes. And obviously you do not know that any constituition is by a definition quite vague. That is so because the relations are regulated as abstract as possible. The constitution lays down the basic legal principles of a society. It can not be detailed because it is a constitution. Yes I think 2 supreme courts are neccesary because: a) as I said u cant be a specialist in any field; the administrative law and criminal and civil law have very different legal principles; b) the supreme court is the last intance, the courts hardly can manage to see any cases now, imagine if all cases were reviewed by only one court; c) most EU countries also have supreme administrative and supreme casational courts; d) it doesnt create jurisdictional issues which the constitution does not properly address or at least I can think of. Your statements are just fruitless. Please tell us your real practical ideas, apart from the 2 court system (not good idea by the way, it would change little and deffinately for worse). By the way I do not get your last sentance: there is no big power in one Bulgarian court. It is so because of the continental system. A decision of a supreme court is not obligatory for all other courts (unlike in USA/UK), so the decision is important only for the parties to which it is adressed. Our (and European courts) are stripped down of any policy making (unlike USA, UK courts). The only court who is political by the definition is our Constitutional court who has the power to interpret the constitution.
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Jacko
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Post by Jacko on Aug 2, 2009 0:31:25 GMT -5
I am not going to continue this conversation if you can't see the flaws in a constitution that was written by former communists who robbed the state blind.
The fact that you said, there are no loopholes alone tells me you have never studied any sort of law, all laws have loopholes, even the best written ones and our constitution is far from the best.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Aug 2, 2009 1:07:08 GMT -5
Ok, come back prepared with some real practical ideas. You sound like any other Bulgarian who speaks out negatively about something he knows little about and without any ideas how to change it for the better.
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Post by chalkedon on Aug 2, 2009 14:37:32 GMT -5
You can change the constitution a thousand times...but if it is never implemented it wont change a thing. We had and still have the same problem in Greece. Everytime they try to add laws and make amendments thinking that will change something. Each political party makes a change and then says they improved it. In reality though, our laws that exist already are enough...but they are never implemented. This must be a balkan phenomenon.
So with this i have to say I agree w/ Ruse and Ioan, even though im not bulgarian but its the exact same problem we have here. We also have a major corruption problem. My solution would be to form some type of terrorist group to terrorize the corrupt...but that might me a little extreme for some ppl... I mean cmon....we all know who these ppl are...
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Rhezus
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DERZA STURIA TRAUS
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Post by Rhezus on Aug 4, 2009 3:31:48 GMT -5
^^ Chalk, your suggestion is quite sutablae for the described "balkan phenomenon". Use a terror force to smash the corrupted bandits! That's the only language they understand. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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