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Post by depletedreasons on Nov 2, 2007 9:48:03 GMT -5
Canaris, I will give you some sound information that you should recall whenever you murmur the name of the Turk. ;D * Turks started using runic script as of 6th Century (some 3 centuries before the Russians), and began to have their own coins as of early 7th Century. * On top of runic script, Turks also used Arabic, Hebrew, Greek and Latin scripts. *Karamanlis were the Turks who were settled in Asia Minor by the Byzantines. Those Turks were probably the ones who evaded the Mongol Invasion. * Many Medieval travelers mentioned existence of some "Romans" in Karaman region who could have only spoken in Turkish. * Karamanlis had quite rich literature, but they only used Turkish language written in Greek script until their deportation from Anatolia. ;D * Turks had never been "barbaric and destructive" as the ones who still claim themselves as "the civilized ones". This is evident as Turks never exterminated hundreds of millions like your fellow Europeans did.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Nov 2, 2007 12:57:16 GMT -5
Why don't you tell that to the inhabitants of Chios? Nice try but no cigar.... but you're entitled to judge your own kind as you see fit..
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Post by ahristos on Nov 3, 2007 11:59:35 GMT -5
oh! chios masacre is small compared to armenian one
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Post by ahristos on Nov 4, 2007 13:50:49 GMT -5
also this and others turks have allot blad in them hands
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Post by depletedreasons on Nov 5, 2007 2:31:17 GMT -5
Greek Independence
Turks were a sizeable minority in many of the Balkan territories of the Ottoman empire. As national states successfully revolted, the presence of Turks, seen as part of the old system of Ottoman dominance, was intolerable to many. Furthermore, the nationalists saw the same potential problem as seen by the Russian imperialists -- if Turks were left behind after a revolution, might they not support an Ottoman re-conquest? The solution was obvious. A mixture of ethnic and religious hatred and practical politics sealed the fate of the Turks.
The first of the major national revolutions in the Balkans began in Greece in 1821.... When the call to revolt was heeded in Morea (southern Greece) the first act of the rebels was the slaughter of all the Turks. Peasants interested in appropriating the lands of the Turks joined in the massacres.
"[from George Finlay] In the meantime the Christian population had attacked and murdered the Mussulman population in every part of the peninsula. The towers and country homes of the Mussulmans were burned down, and their property was destroyed, in order to render the return of those who had escaped into the fortresses hopeless. From the 26th of March until Easter Sunday, which fell, in the year 1821, on the 22nd of April, it is supposed that fifteen thousand [Muslims] souls perished in cold blood and that about three thousand farmhouses or Turkish dwellings were laid waste."
www.humanities.ualberta.ca/ottoman/balkanmap1.gif
Today the Russian province of Erivan is the main part of the Armenian Republic but in the 1820s Turkish Muslims made up the majority of its population. The Armenian population whose descendants would live in the Armenian Republic were in the 1820s scattered over the Caucasus and eastern Anatolia. In 1826, the Russians began a great forced exchange of population that was to create an Armenia in Erivan and cause great suffering to both the Turks and Armenians.
Expulsion of Caucasian Muslims
The ongoing exchange of population changed the demographic picture of the East and caused great hardship and hatred on both sides. If blame were to be assigned to anyone it would be to the Russian imperialists, but the hatred that developed was between the Muslims and the Armenians. By the end of the nineteenth century sides had been drawn... As the Russians advanced both Turks and Armenians were gradually drawn into the conflict that had its bloody conclusion in the First World War. (pp.334,5)www.humanities.ualberta.ca/ottoman/module4/lecture4.htmIf you revolt in Canada and start killing Canadian officials and if you attempt to kill the prime minister or try to bomb the parliament, then the Canadian government could also kill you without any hesitation. Even in 2007, no country has loose reservations for revolting subjects, particularly if those subjects start to massacre tens of thousands civilians for who they are. Similarly, as one could notice from the map given above, it was not the Ottoman Turks who started to massacre and deport the civilian population living in the region (You can't trick me on this one as my forefathers followed that route given in the map). However, it was the Armenian nationalists who cooperated with the enemy states, and who started killing the locals in order to change the demographic structure and to build a nation state.
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Post by ahristos on Nov 5, 2007 13:53:38 GMT -5
turks had 90% od good land in morea christians had lands on mountains osmans heavy taxation to christians previus revolutions 1675 1 795 and others smallers who have stop with masacers greek revolution starts from 2 points romanias dragatsani iasion and morea peloponesse turks who had castles have close them selfs with allots foods and properties until arive troops to kill revolts=greeks
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Post by ahristos on Nov 5, 2007 13:54:06 GMT -5
i mean aid from sultan
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viktor1
Membrum
DARDANIAN
Posts: 247
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Post by viktor1 on Nov 18, 2007 11:15:24 GMT -5
Does any one have some statistics facts about religions in greece
Everybody says greeks believes one and only religion: Christian Orthodoxy....yeah right?!
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Post by ahristos on Nov 18, 2007 13:15:28 GMT -5
kadikoy halkidon gardash kamam ali is the correct but greeks took family names from jobs or places i mean greeks of m asia like thiz karam Ali heh after 1922 we had delema with the newcommers from m asia even today we use to say i told you in greek u dont understund me i havent spoke turkish or do u talk turkish ?i dont understund you at all no muslems cretans just turks had crete some 75 000 not more
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Post by leandros nikon on Nov 18, 2007 15:30:28 GMT -5
also,we should not forget about the invasion and occupation at cyprus...or the 1700 missing greek cypriots...probably some of them are still prisoners somewhere in eastern turkey...
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Post by fenian on Nov 18, 2007 17:24:08 GMT -5
also,we should not forget about the invasion and occupation at cyprus...or the 1700 missing greek cypriots...probably some of them are still prisoners somewhere in eastern turkey... I'm keeping one of them prisoned in my dungeon just next to my furnace. I give him only half a glass of water and a little piece of bread everyday. I like eating a roasted lamb in front of his eyes while he is watching me with hungry eyes and drinking fresh spring water as it's flowing down on my chin. I sometimes go closer to him and have my meal while he is able to breath how nice my roasted beef smells. At the end of my meal, I show him my bottle and ask whether he wants to have a glass of fresh spring water or not. And then drop that water in my bottle on the floor upon he yells and whines "YEESS" to me. I never forget to laugh at him while leaving the dungeon, hahahahahaha. ;D
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Post by ahristos on Nov 18, 2007 23:44:21 GMT -5
turkokotes mongolians to you belongs only turkmenia others lands are only stolen and you now try to deporte kurds from them lands remines this story greeks- armenians- generally christians now is them turn ai sto kalo sas mogoli
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Post by greekslav on Nov 18, 2007 23:50:39 GMT -5
Any Greek that wants to convert to Islam should be condemned a traitor to the Greek people. There are only two religions Greek Orthodox and ancient Greek Paganism all the rest are un accepted. We fought so hard to preserve our religion and they just threw it away. In essence, you are saying no Greek has the freedom of choose without persecution. If you were a real Orthodox Christian, you would be tolerate of other religions.
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Post by greek1234 on Nov 19, 2007 0:42:58 GMT -5
Yes thats exactly what I'm saying. Religion revolves around the state and a Greek faith is the only way for a true Greek society to function properly. If we want to go back to our Historical roots we must respect both and accept the good and the bad. Also the pagans where persecuted by the Byzantines. Are they not true Orthodox Christians? Even the Olympics and the school of Philosophy in Athens was persecuted because it was said to have Pagan roots.
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 19, 2007 1:03:19 GMT -5
There was a very large number of Turks who converted to Christianity when the Byzantine Empire was still around. Remember, when the Selcuk's entered Anatolia, they had only the most primitive concept of Islam and still retained many of their shamanistic roots. Many were not even Orthodox Sunni followers; thus it was not very difficult for the Byzantines to convert many who entered mercenary services in the Byzantine Empire. Many were even settled into Byzantine Macedonia. The vast majority of those Turks converted to Islam following the strengthening of Sunnism among the Selcuk and post-Selcuk rulers.
This also worked the other way around, as many Anatolian nobles became alienated from the Byzantine Empire and as the Byzantines failed to properly defend them against the incursion of arriving central-asian tribes, they looked to the Selcuk's for support and converted to Islam in order to defend themselves by faith.
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Post by greekslav on Nov 19, 2007 1:23:37 GMT -5
Part of being Hellenic is to accept that Greeks once worshiped pagan gods. It was part of the definition of Hellenic in ancient times.
I agree that for a true Greek society in Greece to function properly, one must have the faith.
But you forget one of the most important areas of the Hellenic creed. That being Hellenic, we must respect one another's right to learn, think AND CHOOSE.
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Post by greek1234 on Nov 19, 2007 2:32:47 GMT -5
This proves my point that for a people to co exist with a society they must accept certain beliefs such as religion and law.
Yes, but to a point. Lets not forget Socrates was executed via drinking hemlock because he was thought of brainwashing the Athenian youths with his Philosophical and non Athenian ideals. By non Athenian i mean they where against the Athenian laws and way of life (Questioning certain things). There should be chose, off course thats what all Democracy's are about but to a point. Enough for a society to work without total chaos. What i meant with my previous post was for the Greeks during the Ottoman occupation one of the most important things used to distinguish themselves from there Ottoman overlords was there faith, Christianity. During this period there wasn't even a true Greek ethos. A true Greek was a Christian while a Moslem was a Turk. Do you see what i am trying to say? Think of religion as a way of life, which off course it is. It should co exist with the laws of the nation. One people should have one law. If one other believes in another thing and this causes tension between the two (especially religion) it could cause anarchy. For example the former Yugoslavia, Orthodox Christians fighting against Moslem's. Ancient Greece had one religion it was a way they distinguished themselves as Helene's and not Barbarians. They had several Races such as the Ionians, Dorian's, Aeolian eg... But one thing they had in common was language, Culture and Religion. (Religion co exist with Culture) Also the Byzantine Greeks where Greek Orthodox and not Roman Catholics another way they distinguished themselves from foreigners. Religion can also effect how a society is run. We would end up having a nation with several ideology's and cultures.
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Post by greekslav on Nov 19, 2007 11:48:54 GMT -5
You made some excellent points as they apply to the circumstances.
To learn, think, and choose is a God given right. Man should not dictate how much and what one should learn, think, and choose. As you imply, to learn, think and choose, with persecution a threat, leads to the lose of free choice. Then you will have a people that would be afraid to freely choose what and how to learn, think, and choose.
If religion plays a big part, then persecuting those that choose certain things to believe, learn, and choose should never be part of it.
Orthodoxy helps and guides the individual to reach Theosis. One part of reaching Theosis is relations with others. Being kind, tolerant, helpful, forgiving, and loving.
Law is one thing. Everyone must abide by the law. But to imply that a non-Orthodox living in Greece must abide by the religion/convert to Orthodoxy is not tolerant at all, therefore, not the Orthodox way.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Nov 19, 2007 13:45:20 GMT -5
Karamanlides, pure Turks ;D The Greek Orthodox of Cappadocia (Karamanlides)Orthodox they did not have a Turkish conscience Turkish Propaganda Anatolia was Greek, Armenian, and Assyrian Turks are settlers in present day Turkey
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