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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Sept 7, 2009 1:35:42 GMT -5
Ah Donnie you are so full of it. I see you regurgitated Fazlinhos King of Greeks analogy which really is ridiculous. Feel free to jump in on the other thread where we are already discussing this stuff. And here is a link for you again with the Serbian perspective; cafehome.tripod.com/serbdom-eng.htmAnd for changing names now you've dug up some football player with a clearly slavicized (not Serbian) name. Show me where it says he was forced to change his name. Show me where it was Serbian policy anywhere to get Albanians or any other minority to forcefully change their names. Compare this to the situation in Albania where all slavs have Albanized names.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Sept 7, 2009 1:44:10 GMT -5
Fazlinho has good arguments, but Dusan's "King of Greeks" is smth I thought of myself because I remember it from a different debate and context. Infact, he also styled himself as king of Bulgars too, and also, if I remember correctly, of Vlachs and Albanians too (Arbanasi). Doesn't mean he was a mish-mash of all those ethnicities (well, he did have a Bulgarian mother, but other than that no) or that he identified with them on an ethnic basis. LOL, and I am the one "full of it"? Sure, the Hajdari family and their likes willingly changed their names ...
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Post by terroreign on Sept 7, 2009 14:10:57 GMT -5
It might be now, but traditionally wasn't. Traditionally it was a mix of Slavic and Turkish citizens.
The muslims of shkoder are by majority Albanian.
The slavs of Shkoder are by majority, Montenegrin. Almost 1000 of them live in the city of Shkoder alone.
The story goes like this: Stanisa-Skenderbeg Crnojevic, son of Ivan Crnojevic, was the ruler/beg of the Montenegro Sandzak. During the end of his reign, he was defeated in battle in Montenegro, and was fleeing with his soldiers to Skadar. He was not let into Skadar, so he kept going and came to the village of Bushati, where he stayed for fear of his life, and his sons took the last name Bushati.
Most people in the balkans are more or less the same. But we're looking at what language/what they connected to.
And it's more than likely that a good deal of Shkodra's muslim albanians have slavic roots.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 8, 2009 7:34:43 GMT -5
Lol. What is "traditionally"? Face it, even 200 years ago there were almost zero Slavs in Shkoder. Only two significant groups existed, Muslim Albanians and Catholic Albanians. Muslims being the predominant group.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 10, 2009 1:52:17 GMT -5
Traditionally meaning before the end of Ottoman rule. Being three peoples present in Shkoder: Turks, Albanians and Slavs. Turks being predominant.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 10, 2009 15:58:55 GMT -5
Lol...
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Post by terroreign on Sept 12, 2009 13:49:50 GMT -5
Tell me this: do you make a distinction between turkish and albanian cultures?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 12, 2009 16:57:09 GMT -5
lol. Like I said, 200 years ago, Shkoder had two kinds of religious structures: Catholic churches and Mosques...
No Orthodog places of worship. In fact, Serbs were afraid to even walk around the region surrounding Shkoder and inside it for fear that Albanians would shoot them if they saw them...
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 12, 2009 20:05:33 GMT -5
"I think you & Novi are on a similar wavelength." Thanks Arsenije, the difference here is l provide evidences to back my claim, but its up to you whether you want to believe them or not. I can't believe how strong Bulgarian propaganda is stuck in peoples heads ......people like Ruse (who never even once provided a source to back his claim) is considered more ligit regarding histories of sth serbia + vardar than me who diproves the propaganda with quotes from renowned historians who are experts in their field. Now if you want to disprove me regarding vardar then lets open a thread and debate about it.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 13, 2009 18:55:54 GMT -5
lol. Like I said, 200 years ago, Shkoder had two kinds of religious structures: Catholic churches and Mosques... No Orthodog places of worship. In fact, Serbs were afraid to even walk around the region surrounding Shkoder and inside it for fear that Albanians would shoot them if they saw them... For your information, the Montenegrin dinasty Balsici were Catholics and many Montenegrins of that time were of the Catholic right. Besides that Montenegrins are not religious, so a small Monte-slavic community in Shkoder wouldn't need a church in order to exist. And why talk about serbs? They have nothing to do with this nor here nor there. It is well known that more than 100 years ago Montenegrins had border battles with Albanians on a daily basis. With Albanians in many parts of Tuzi and Podgorica not being able to leave their homes without getting a bullet to the head. Meanwhile many Albanians supported Montenegrins and Montenegro against rival albanian tribes. All in all, slavs always existed in city of Shkoder/Skadar
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Post by insomniac on Sept 14, 2009 3:05:46 GMT -5
You are right they had border battles in Tuzi and Podgorica. Because those were the ethnic lines of Albanian majority.
Today, they are included under the borders of Montenegro.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 14, 2009 15:40:24 GMT -5
When I said Podgorica, i meant the district of Podgorica. Meaning near the borders of Montenegro-Albania today. Guess who won?
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Post by insomniac on Sept 15, 2009 3:19:00 GMT -5
When I said Podgorica, i meant the district of Podgorica. Meaning near the borders of Montenegro-Albania today. Guess who won? The Serbs won that one but it was a double-edged sword. They made a dent in the Adriatic. But it ended today being against them and seeking independence. lol. B.t.w, the thought that Podgorica, Tuzi, Ulqin, Tivar were Albanian- populated cities does not concern you at all? That wasn't even long ago.. ;D
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 15, 2009 9:17:19 GMT -5
lol. Like I said, 200 years ago, Shkoder had two kinds of religious structures: Catholic churches and Mosques... No Orthodog places of worship. In fact, Serbs were afraid to even walk around the region surrounding Shkoder and inside it for fear that Albanians would shoot them if they saw them... For your information, the Montenegrin dinasty Balsici were Catholics and many Montenegrins of that time were of the Catholic right. Besides that Montenegrins are not religious, so a small Monte-slavic community in Shkoder wouldn't need a church in order to exist. And why talk about serbs? They have nothing to do with this nor here nor there. It is well known that more than 100 years ago Montenegrins had border battles with Albanians on a daily basis. With Albanians in many parts of Tuzi and Podgorica not being able to leave their homes without getting a bullet to the head. Meanwhile many Albanians supported Montenegrins and Montenegro against rival albanian tribes. All in all, slavs always existed in city of Shkoder/Skadar Muslim Slavs were 5,000 in a city of 100,000 at their peak then. Today they are 10,000 in a city of over 300,000. There is no 'Skadar', just 'Shkoder', learn to say it properly. Why talk about Serbs? Well, bcz monteys are Shkja (a universal word used in Shkoder for your people). The Muslim Slavs of Shkoder, however, speak Alb today or they long since left and resettled in Montenegro.
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wbb
Moderator
Posts: 733
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Post by wbb on Sept 15, 2009 10:06:22 GMT -5
looool!!! ;D Oh my serbs, u poor thing. U got nearly everything u have in Hungary yet u still complaining like the rest of those gypsy beggers. If Serbs dont like Hungary, they can pack up and leave, we wont miss them at all. The door is open. Wow what a wonderful fabricated history u got here arsenije. If there is no Bosniak identity then why those people in Bosnia who are not all muslim, some are catholic and jews as well, depend so much on their homeland and independence so seriously? Far as i know the Bosniaks contributed Balkan more strongly than the Serbs. Bosniaks contributed the idea of many useful things, they contributed Hungary alot during Ottoman rule, while those bunch of miserable serbs were just nothing but raiders and theives. They raided Kosova and claim that Kosova is the heart of Serbia, then there was a mass exodus of Serbs coming to Vojvodina which was originally nothing more than a Hungarian land, who got their butts kicked by the Turks, Albanians. Since the Serbs arrive to Vojvodina, Vojvodina belongs to the Serbs!!!. Then Serbs went to Macedonia, Macedonia belongs to the Serbs!!! Then more interestingly Serbs raided Albania during Balkan war because Serbia was a miserable landlocked nation and needed access to sea, since they arrive to Albania, Albania is also belongs to Serbs, and with all that looting and violence done to those poor Albo's. Serbs are just liers, raiders and theives. Not Hungarians, not Albanians, not Croatians, not Turkish and not Bosniak either. Anyway i think Serbian identity is more manufactured than Bosniak. Serbian and Russian flag?...same, Serbian and Russian orthodox religion?....same, Serbian and Russian language? same, Serbian and Russian writing?....definately same. Serbians are Balkan Russians. Ruskie Puskie, with that stupid hat.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 15, 2009 14:06:29 GMT -5
What serbs? Montenegrins fought for that border before world war I, and we grabbed Tuzi in 1877. Kosovo doesn't concern me ;D
Where an albanian lives does not make that albania, or else the Bronx would be Albania. ;D
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Post by terroreign on Sept 15, 2009 14:08:01 GMT -5
For your information, the Montenegrin dinasty Balsici were Catholics and many Montenegrins of that time were of the Catholic right. Besides that Montenegrins are not religious, so a small Monte-slavic community in Shkoder wouldn't need a church in order to exist. And why talk about serbs? They have nothing to do with this nor here nor there. It is well known that more than 100 years ago Montenegrins had border battles with Albanians on a daily basis. With Albanians in many parts of Tuzi and Podgorica not being able to leave their homes without getting a bullet to the head. Meanwhile many Albanians supported Montenegrins and Montenegro against rival albanian tribes. All in all, slavs always existed in city of Shkoder/Skadar Muslim Slavs were 5,000 in a city of 100,000 at their peak then. Today they are 10,000 in a city of over 300,000. There is no 'Skadar', just 'Shkoder', learn to say it properly. Why talk about Serbs? Well, bcz monteys are Shkja (a universal word used in Shkoder for your people). The Muslim Slavs of Shkoder, however, speak Alb today or they long since left and resettled in Montenegro. Wait, you contradicted yourself. You first say that the Muslim Montes are today 10,000, then you say they assimilated or long since left to Montenegro. Which is it?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 15, 2009 16:08:36 GMT -5
Muslim Slavs. And I am going by info that is a few years old. I know that after the Kosovo War most long left the area. Most Slavic Muslims left for Montenegro and abroad, while orthodox Slavs left for Montenegro and Serbia, then transferred to Kosovo then kicked out and then finally Serbia.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 16, 2009 6:11:21 GMT -5
Muslim Slavs. And I am going by info that is a few years old. I know that after the Kosovo War most long left the area. Most Slavic Muslims left for Montenegro and abroad, while orthodox Slavs left for Montenegro and Serbia, then transferred to Kosovo then kicked out and then finally Serbia. Yes, and Muslim slavs in Skadar see themselves as Montenegrins ethnically. Neither I nor you know how many of them left the area, but we both know that many stayed which is the point. Watch this :
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 16, 2009 10:28:18 GMT -5
Lol, empty youtube videos. Go to Shkoder and speak Slavic, see how many, or how few, will be able to understand a word. Even with neighboring MountainShkja.
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