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Post by insomniac on Jun 23, 2009 18:54:12 GMT -5
It seems to me that some of these people have Albanian names. Even though Albania is highly homogenous im glad Albania respects minorities. What do you think?
Obviously those people coming out of nowhere are staged for political propaganda. What do you guys think?
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Post by leshte on Jun 23, 2009 19:02:03 GMT -5
As someone who has lived along the border for a long time, in the city I lived I knew of one minority family. The village near Prespe has some minorities. While in daily life relations are good between the villagers. They're numbers are small but as every other neighbor they claim to be 300 000 add that to the Bulgars 350 000 claim, add that to the Greeks 400 000 claim and add that to the aromanian 150 000 claim and apparently about 1 in two people in Albania are minorities according to them. So next I gotta figure out who are the minorities in my family. The least these guys could do is come with a coordinated lie. Ballpark it so its believable. But in the Balkans each one has a big appetite.
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Post by insomniac on Jun 23, 2009 19:21:23 GMT -5
So next I gotta figure out who are the minorities in my family. The least these guys could do is come with a coordinated lie. Ballpark it so its believable. But in the Balkans each one has a big appetite.
I agree but that is typical Balkan behavior. Nonetheless it is our job to make conditions right and equal in Albania for everybody. Afterall these people are citizens of Albania as well and they can be proud of this country as well. I don't know. I mean its easy to act like Greece does and assimilate these 4000 minority members. Easy because even in this forum there are more members than that. But i believe it is our job to integrate them.
Do you think our society will be stronger by acting shovinistic? Or do you think by promoting cultural diversity we are building a society on strong foundation. Is that going to bite us in the ass? I don't believe so. These are some questions to keep in mind.
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Post by insomniac on Jun 23, 2009 19:35:25 GMT -5
Highduke @ 2:16 min.
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Post by leshte on Jun 23, 2009 19:38:18 GMT -5
The thing that differentiates Albania from the rest of the Balkans is that we genuinely don't care about religion or ethnicity differences as long as you are a good person. We are not brainwashed into thinking that without the church or mosque there will be no state and those who worship in a different church or in a different tongue are going to destroy us (Greece and mosques in Athens issue here). We are not hypocrites into acting the good guys on Sundays during mass (we don't go to church or religious gatherings on Sundays), and then abuse others based on ethnicity or religion during weekdays. We genuinely do not bother people that do not bother us. So as long as one asks for equality and human rights they're all set. Hence we have minority parties, minority ministers in our government, minority parliamentarians in our parliament and schools in their tongues where there's more teachers than students (schools remain open fore even 3-4 kids). Also things are better in Albania because unlike any of our neighbours the state of Albania did not steal land from anyone. On the contrary half of our lands were stolen from us; thus our neighbours' will and attempts to once and for all put under their claws the large Albanian population.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jun 23, 2009 19:42:41 GMT -5
I don't understand why you guys continually play the victims.Truth is no one cares in Albania ,people have more important things to do like feed their families and such... once the belly is full... the mind has time to ponder.Give it another 20 to 30 years.
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Post by insomniac on Jun 23, 2009 19:52:58 GMT -5
Some say that there has been disagreement among the Slavophone Albanian citizens about their being members of a Macedonian nation as a significant number of these Slavophones are Torbesh and self-identify as Albanians.
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Post by insomniac on Jun 23, 2009 19:53:44 GMT -5
Also there are conflicts with Bulgarians. Bulgarians claim minorities in Albania.
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Post by leshte on Jun 23, 2009 19:59:46 GMT -5
Kanaris we don't care, in our daily lives. Really. Once in a while we see videos like the ones Insomniac posted. They are ridiculous more than anything. I would attempt to believe them if we had a population of 40 million people. But with the numbers they claim among them Greece also, we add them up and there's about 100 000 Albanians left in Albania. As far as I know for example Tirana alone has at least some 300 to 400 thousand Albanians. That's why I said the least you guys can do is have a meeting together and make a better lie, fabricate some numbers that are more believable.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 23, 2009 20:15:42 GMT -5
I like how fast they all started replying when asked "out of nowhere". Has anyone been randomly interviewed? Lol, you dont reply as if you knew you were going to be asked. ;D
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Post by luarasi on Jun 24, 2009 5:49:30 GMT -5
Bulgaria is claiming the same people that Macedonia claims, such as Torbeshs from Golloberda and Slavs of Pustec, at the same time, it races against Macedonia for the claim of the same people, it does the same thing with Gorans in Kosova. Those MacoBullgars "selected at random" at Skenderbeu square, are probably from the same village and it couldn't get any more ridiculous than acting as if the whole Tirana speaks in FYROMIAN language.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 24, 2009 7:05:42 GMT -5
Then there's also the attempt to put a counter-weight on the hold we have on them through our "minority" in Iliride. It's not comparable, and so they intentionally inflate numbers. Pathetic attempt, but nonetheless they try.
Luruasi
Pustec, isn't the name of that municipality Lekas?
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Aris
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Post by Aris on Jun 24, 2009 10:24:51 GMT -5
Then there's also the attempt to put a counter-weight on the hold we have on them through our "minority" in Iliride. It's not comparable, and so they intentionally inflate numbers. Pathetic attempt, but nonetheless they try. LuruasiPustec, isn't the name of that municipality Lekas? Pustec was invented in '92 , the real name is Liqenas !
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Post by luarasi on Jun 24, 2009 14:26:53 GMT -5
Then there's also the attempt to put a counter-weight on the hold we have on them through our "minority" in Iliride. It's not comparable, and so they intentionally inflate numbers. Pathetic attempt, but nonetheless they try. LuruasiPustec, isn't the name of that municipality Lekas? Pustec was invented in '92 , the real name is Liqenas ! Liqenas sounds to good for the people that live in it, whereas Pustec which in translation means abandoned place suits them better. Those people were brought in Liqenas at Maliq be's manor in 18-th century as a cheap labor servants.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 24, 2009 14:34:33 GMT -5
Ridiculous ... They are 5000 in Albania, in 10 villages. Maybe there are a few people in Korça and Pogradec but that's all ... Muslim Slavs from Gora (in the district of Kukës) and Gollobordë feel themself Albanian ... thos who moved from their region are forgetting their language and speak only Albanian with their children. What do they want Tirana minority zone maybe ... We just can't compare the Macedonian minority in Albania and the Albanian minority in Macedonia. 25 % of Fyrom's population is Albanian, less than 0,5 % of the population feels Macedonian in Albania ... Im betting a good number moved from the villages to Korca in recent years. Today, the Macedonian minority in Albania has even bigger issues to deal with. Since Bulgaria entered the EU, many "Macedonians" are now opting for a Bulgarian identity with the hope that it will provide them the same benefits that the Greek minority attained (easier visas)
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 24, 2009 15:09:02 GMT -5
You have some source for this? It'd be very interesting to confirm this. It's fascinating how (don't take offense Toskali, given your changed nick ) some beys' actions worked so much against our national interests, giving rise to a changing demographic reality which resulted in the creation of new minority zones. The Greeks of Dropulli seem to have been in large imported labour; the local beys needed cheap labour to work their lands. In Kosova, there are similiar cases. In Drenica, there were essentially no Serbs excluding the monks in the monastery of Devic. There was no Serbian village. Today, you have the village of Banje, close to Syrigana. The Serbs there descend from Tergovishte, which is a village in Kolasin (Serbia), who were brought there by some local bey to work the land. In 1912, they were the ciftcis of Isa Boletini. The previous inhabitants of Banje were Albanians of the Shala clan, who left the place in 1690 due to the plague (murtaja). They were known as Citak. My maternal grandmother was from that village and descends from those refugees. They named their new settlement "Citak", the meaning of which is disputed; scholars claim it to be either the Turkish word for "fence" or a Persian word for "guardian". There is also a similiar tale of the Serbs of Gorozhdec (Gorazdevac in Serbian). I am unaware if they're raja (locals) or immigrants from Montenegro. A long time ago, a local pasha, probably of the Begolli family, wanted to expel them from the village in question. But the Serbs "bribed" him by giving him a night with a local village girl which the pasha had fallen in love with. They offered him raki and meze, and when time came, left him alone with the Serbian gal. The degenerate pasha had his way and let the Serbs stay (if I am not mistaken, it was their initial reluctance to marry off the girl to the pasha which had angered him). And so the saying goes; "na meten shkijet per nji t'qime t'begut!" and trully the Serbs of Gorazdevac have been some of the worst Chetniks in all of Kosova,
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 24, 2009 15:12:04 GMT -5
There was no nation, nor national interests... only personal interests. These beys needed cheap labor and Muslims wouldnt provide it so they sought out Christians. Who knew that it would harm us centuries later.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 24, 2009 15:15:48 GMT -5
Of course. I know. I meant in the long term it didn't benefit us. Naturally, they (the beys) weren't such visionaries ... they were interested in their personal welfare, and they needed servants to maintain their lands.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 24, 2009 16:35:38 GMT -5
I may have bey in my name here, but Im completely happy that they were liquidated by Hoxha.
However, admittedly, a number of beys were also some of our biggest patriots.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 24, 2009 17:29:43 GMT -5
True. The very great Ismail Qemali comes to mind ...
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