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Post by PrijesDardanian on Apr 2, 2008 17:58:39 GMT -5
The Vatican Purposes to Evangelize Kosovo April 2, 2008 | From theTrumpet.com
The Roman Catholic bishop of Kosovo believes that Kosovo’s Muslims need a “cultural baptism” into Catholicism. How is the Vatican influencing events in the Balkans? By Andrew Miiller
The majority of Kosovo’s population may be Islamic, but that is not stopping the Vatican from launching a full-scale evangelistic campaign in Kosovo. Pope Benedict xvi has called for Europe to return to its Catholic roots, and Dode Gjergji—Kosovo’s Roman Catholic bishop—is doing all he can to convert Kosovo’s Muslims.
Both Kosovo and Albania have Catholic roots almost as deep as Rome itself. The Roman province of Illyria on the Balkan Peninsula was one of the first territories to which Catholicism spread. It all changed after the Ottoman conquest of Balkans in the 14th century, however. Under the rule of the Ottoman Turks, the majority of Albanians converted to Islam.
This history was on Gjergji’s mind as he spoke recently before a gathering of European Democratic Party officials in Brussels. In this speech, Gjergji called the Kosovo Albanians Islamized Catholics who were converted only because of Ottoman terror. Now, as Kosovo is increasingly looking to the European Union and the Vatican for support against Serbia, Gjergji says there is a need for a “cultural baptism” in Kosovo.
As the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network put it:
Far from being marginalized—as is the story in so many mainly Muslim societies—in Kosovo the small Catholic minority has seen a resurgence in its fortunes as Kosovars of all faiths look to Europe to resolve their political destiny. …
Since nato drove Serbian forces from Kosovo in 1999, Catholics have increasingly emerged from the sidelines in Kosovo.
As Gjergji presses forward with his missionary activities, he is also devoting considerable effort to supporting the construction of a major Catholic cathedral in Pristina. This cathedral—which is being built with the support of Kosovar President Fatmir Sejdiu—has been hailed by the New Kosova Report as a symbol of the Vatican’s attempts at “cultural baptism.”
Gjergji was appointed as bishop of the Albanian Sape Diocese by Pope Benedict xvi before he was transferred to Kosovo. Vatican involvement in Kosovo, however, runs a lot deeper than the pope’s relationship with Gjergji. Kosovar President Fatmir Sejdiu met with Benedict himself in the Vatican on February 2. This visit was reminiscent of the long-standing relationship between former Kosovar President Ibrahim Rugova and Pope John Paul ii.
It makes sense that Kosovar leadership would want a relationship with the Vatican. The Vatican was one of the first states to recognize both Croatia and Slovenia when they broke away from Yugoslavia back in the early 1990s. Kosovo also would like Vatican support for its independence—but the Vatican does not give its support for nothing.
Both Croatia and Slovenia were Catholic entities trying to break away from an Eastern Orthodox-dominated Yugoslavia. Kosovo is primarily Islamic. Because of this, Pope Benedict has been more low-key in his support for Kosovo. He still offered symbolic support by meeting with the Kosovar president, but for now he is holding off official recognition while he has Gjergji sow the seeds of “cultural baptism.”
As Gjergji said, the Vatican is “very influential in the province [of Kosovo], and not just among Catholics.”
As the European Union continues to annex the Balkans, the Roman Catholic Church will be working to give areas like Kosovo their European ID card—Roman Catholicism. Of course, it is going to take a lot more than “seeds” for the Vatican to make much of a dent in an area that is still almost completely Islamic, but the process has been started. Five Islamic terrorists were arrested in Bosnia on March 30 on grounds that they were planning to bomb Catholic churches, among other alleged targets. As the Vatican’s evangelical campaign builds speed, events like this could become more and more frequent throughout the Balkans—Kosovo included.
For more information on the Vatican’s involvement in the Balkans, read Germany and the Holy Roman Empire and the The Rising Beast—Germany’s Conquest of the Balkans.
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Post by ilirdardani on Apr 2, 2008 18:01:09 GMT -5
All Albanians need to go back to our Christian roots.
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Post by julius on Apr 2, 2008 18:08:53 GMT -5
Its ok to me, as long as they dont become mad catholics. Also It could prove tention among those minor in number but sometimes crazy muslims around there. Even a spiritual battle can be painful. I would prefer kosovars atheists though.
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Post by captainalbania on Apr 2, 2008 18:55:45 GMT -5
More Catholics in the Balkans would do well to balance out the Serb problem. Right now the Serbian's biggest ammunition is that they say we are muslims and are anti-european.
We will show them that we can be catholics and then they will have to eat their words.
Bravo Pope.
We have to think what is good for Albania, and right now, what is good for us is to be integrated with the West. Its time for the few Albanian muslims to abandon their ties to Islam and join in the new Western Renaissance.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Apr 2, 2008 20:15:29 GMT -5
2 week ago 14 albanian muslim of Kosova changed religion into Catolich: 14 persona u pagëzuan në emer te Atit e të Birit e të Shpirtit Shenjët! Sot, në Kishen Katolike shen Ndou në Prishtinë; u pagëzuan 14 persona. Në meshen e mbrëmjes e të shtundes së madhe që e drejtoj d. Lekë Oroshi - famullitar; në praninë e shumë besimtarëve, 14 persona të moshave të ndryshme, të cilët deri sot i perkisnin besimit musliman, u pagëzuan dhe deshmuan para Kishes se besojnë në Jezu Krishtin Zot. here pics: forumishqiptar.com/showthread.php?t=93136
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Apr 2, 2008 20:18:51 GMT -5
I personally i am for those orthodoks albanians to change faith catolich than muslim should.
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Post by ilirdardani on Apr 2, 2008 20:50:05 GMT -5
I think everyone should, both the orthodox as well as the muslim, to Catholic, which was our first religion. (until the divide, which then some became orthodox)
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Post by Duke John on Apr 2, 2008 23:48:59 GMT -5
we dont need no religion.
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kiki
Membrum
Posts: 195
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Post by kiki on Apr 3, 2008 0:52:46 GMT -5
that is ridiculous . what about yur identity? a muslim family who , who practices that faith for years as did their forfathres, now to change, because the vatican asks them too? by us they say when you change your religion you are a weak minded fool. and i beleive albanians think that as well. thats why i think its unreal
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Apr 3, 2008 2:20:12 GMT -5
muslim organisations are trying to convert people to islam in western countries, so i dont see why the vatican has to be any different. nobody should change their faith unless they want to. certianly the vatican is not trying to force people to convert. part of the catholic christian faith is to try to bring others to roman catholic christianity. i think in islam its the same.
catholic albanians are a very small number in kosovo anyways, so i personally would like to see catholics become a more sizable part of the kosovar albanian population.
in the end, i repect the kosovo albanians regardless if they're muslim or catholic christian.
they're friends of the croatian people.
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Post by albaniansoul on Apr 3, 2008 4:22:07 GMT -5
Ilirdardani, no. Paganism was our first religion and we should return to that if anything..
I'm neutral on this. Will go with the flow!
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Post by engers on Apr 3, 2008 4:41:48 GMT -5
2 week ago 14 albanian muslim of Kosova changed religion into Catolich: 14 persona u pagëzuan në emer te Atit e të Birit e të Shpirtit Shenjët! Sot, në Kishen Katolike shen Ndou në Prishtinë; u pagëzuan 14 persona. Në meshen e mbrëmjes e të shtundes së madhe që e drejtoj d. Lekë Oroshi - famullitar; në praninë e shumë besimtarëve, 14 persona të moshave të ndryshme, të cilët deri sot i perkisnin besimit musliman, u pagëzuan dhe deshmuan para Kishes se besojnë në Jezu Krishtin Zot. here pics: forumishqiptar.com/showthread.php?t=93136Besoj se keta njerez nuk kane qene fare besimtar te mirefillt musliman dhe poashtu besoj se nuk do te jene as besimtar te mirefillt katolik. Po te ishte konvertuar ndonje katolik shqipetar ne fene Islame (qka besoj se ka ndodh) me siguri se do te thoshe se ka qene i paguar dhe se kjo eshte nje propagande e Islamistave, por meqe ka ndodhe e kunderta (muslimanet ne katolicizem) ateher kjo ka qene krejt me deshiren e tyre (te konvertuarve) dhe pa kurfar pagese. Me siguri se keta njerez ne te ardhmen do te konvertohen ne dicka tjeter.
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Post by sotneser on Apr 3, 2008 7:08:42 GMT -5
No one should be forced to change religion I believe, it is up to everyone to decide for themselves. I’m an Albanian and believe in God, that’s it. I'm not identified by my religion, but by my nationality.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Apr 3, 2008 7:17:15 GMT -5
I don't care what my fellow countryman is, religiously speaking, as longas he is an Albanian first and foremost and as long as he isn't a blind fundamentalist and extremist.
Personally, I don't quite like that article, as it is erroneous;
There were few cases in the history of the Ottoman empire of forced conversion. In many respects, Ottoman rule was more humane and tolerant than that of its Christian predecessor/s or contemporaries. Read the Code of Dusan and see what brutal laws were in force in medieval Serbia (mutilation etc). In comparison, the Ottomans were far more tolerant. Likewise, the exposed peasantry, especially the serfs, were granted more rights during the Ottoman empire. Needless to mention, also, the Inquisition in Catholic Spain .... and the fact that the Jewish refugees were taken in by none other than the Ottoman empire.
I am not a fan of this empire at all, don't get me wrong. But it seems to me that alot of the Balkanians hold such a grudge against it for one reason and one reason only (whethe consciously or subconsciously, whether intentionally or unintentionally); the fact that the Ottoman empire was a Muslim empire.
Rather, the failure of Catholicism in Kosova was the result of the reluctance of the Papacy to be flexble in its attempts to preserve Catholicism in this region. The Albanians, having always been free and warlike, were confronted with the possible outcome of being robbed of this freedom; to choose Catholicism was to choose serfdom (which for the other peoples of the Balkans was OK, as they had been serfs earlier as well). And the Catholic Church had an even more disadvantageous position than the Orthodox church/es. Many Albanians became nominal Muslims, while preserving their Catholic faith. But the Papacy prohibited its priests to give service to crypto-Catholics .... and this is why Islam gained so much ground.
And now they've changed their minds, lol. Sure thing. But don't twist history. Don't forget that Albania bled to protect the Vatican ... yet the latter failed in returning the favour or delivering the Crusade which never came, despite extensive promises from Albanians that we'd give them all the assistance that we'd be able to ... hopes like these were kept upto the 17th century, when the Catholic highlanders presented themselves ready to assist the eventual forces of Catholic crusaders.
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Post by engers on Apr 3, 2008 9:28:53 GMT -5
Mesazhet përçarëse e ofenduese
Nuk po munden pa përmendë edhe një “Margaritar” të Dom Shan Zefit, si vijon: “Po të mos ishit ju katolikët e Kosovës, po të mos ishit ju me shekuj që e keni mbrojtur këtë vend dhe keni dëshmuar se jeni para të tjerëve që e shkelën këtë dhe, a mendoni se do të kishte pavarësi”, i ka pyetur ai dhe është përgjigjur vet, “Kurrë”. Për këtë citat nuk kam Koment! Me këtë rast, Dom Shan Zefin, kisha me përkujtua vetëm për shkrimtarin tonë të madh Naim Frashërin, i cili ka qenë mysliman i devotshëm, por me veprat e veta ka frymëzuar gjeneratat me atdhedashuri dhe humanizëm. Kam mbetur gojëhapur, kur lexova porositë e Dom Shan Zefit, kancelarit të Ipeshkvisë së Kosovës, me rastin e meshës në famullinë e Karvansarisë, në nderim të Shen Masjanit. Militantizmi i tij më përkujtoi Ipeshkvinë e Kishës Ortodokse Serbe të Malit të Zi, Amfillotije. Prej besimeve monoteiste, Katolicizmin dhe Islamin, kam konsideruar si fetë universale. Ndërsa Ortodoksizmin, si fe nacionaliste, pasi që çdo komb ka Kishën e vet autoqefale. Mesazhet e Dom Shan Zefit, më tingëllojnë, me frymë antikombëtare, jo tolerante, përçarëse dhe ofenduese për besimtarët mysliman. Deklarata e tij: “Dua të them, po vjen koha OSE – OSE, mos mendoni se do ta shpëtojnë këtë botë shqiptare, thashethemet dhe besëtytnitë e rreme. Do ta shpëtojë vetëm e vërteta, do ta shpëtojë vlera, do ta dëshmojë të vërtetën”. Me këtë shprehje OSE – OSE, mos ka planifikua Dom Shan Zefi, të ndërmerr fushatën e kryqëzatave të shekullit të mesëm, në trevat e Kosovës. Jemi dëshmitar të konvertimeve sporadike prej Islamit në Protestanizëm, në Kosovë, sikundër që edhe të konvertimeve prej Katolicizmit në Islam, nëpër Europë. Konvertimet individuale janë çështje personale dhe askush nuk ka të drejtë të përzihet. Mirëpo, imponimi dhe insistimi, sidomos nga një nivel institucional, është sa i padëshirueshëm, aq edhe i rrezikshëm për mjediset me konfesione të përziera. Dua të citoj edhe një thënie të Dom Shan Zefit: “Krishterimi është jeta, është gëzimi, është gjithçka për ne. Prandaj nuk mund të na luhatin ideologjitë e kohës, nuk mund të na luhatë gjithçka që ka ndodhur, gjithçka u imponua me dhunë”. M’u përkujtua elaborimi i para 20 viteve të historianit dhe drejtorit të Institutit të Historisë në Prishtinë, prof. Dr. Hysës, për shkaqet e konvertimit masiv të popullatës shqiptare në fenë Islame. Ai thotë se popullata Shqiptare, gjatë sundimit të Perandorisë Bizantine, është trajtua në mënyrë shumë brutale nga sunduesit, duke u konsideruar si qytetar i rendit të dytë. Kështu që okupimin nga pushtuesit Osman, ata kanë përjetua si “çlirim” nga terrori bizantin. Me konvertim në Islam, ata kanë shprehur distancimin e tyre nga torturuesit e mëparshëm. Përndryshe, si mund të interpretohen faktet që “konvertimi me dhunë”, prej të njëjtit okupues, nuk ka ndodhur tek populli grek, serb, bullgar dhe rumun, të cilët kanë ndërruar rolet si sunduesit bizantin. Po ashtu prej prof. Dr. Hysës, që është studiuesi i historisë, shumica e popullatës Shqiptare, që në atë kohë ka jetua në Kosovë, kanë qenë i besimit Ortodoks. Sipas projektit të Dom Shan Zefit, “Që shqiptarët mysliman, duhet të kthehen në fenë e të parëve të tyre”, del se duhet të konvertohen në fenë Ortodokse e jo Katolike. Një besim që me shekuj është ngulitur në vetëdijen e popullit shqiptar, një besim që e kultivojnë mbi një miliardë njerëz, nuk është as lehtë dhe as e nevojshme që të lëkunden nga themeli. Një zyrtar i lartë i Ipeshkvisë Katolike për Kosovën, kur për fenë Islame, shprehet me epitete: “Besëtytni”, “Ideologji”, “Thashethemet”, “Ata që nuk kanë besim”, ai veç ka kaluar rubikonin! Këto janë fyerje të rënda, për pjesën më të madhe të kombit Shqiptar, të fesë Islame. Unë si intelektual, kam njohuri elementare për Krishterimin dhe Judaizmin. Te fetë monoteiste, shumica e doktrinave përputhen njëra me tjetrën. Përse na duhen përçarjet, përse aq jo tolerancë ndaj besimit tjetër! Nuk po munden pa përmendë edhe një “Margaritar” të Dom Shan Zefit, si vijon: “Po të mos ishit ju katolikët e Kosovës, po të mos ishit ju me shekuj që e keni mbrojtur këtë vend dhe keni dëshmuar se jeni para të tjerëve që e shkelën këtë dhe, a mendoni se do të kishte pavarësi”, i ka pyetur ai dhe është përgjigjur vet, “Kurrë”. Për këtë citat nuk kam Koment! Me këtë rast, Dom Shan Zefin, kisha me përkujtua vetëm për shkrimtarin tonë të madh Naim Frashërin, i cili ka qenë mysliman i devotshëm, por me veprat e veta ka frymëzuar gjeneratat me atdhedashuri dhe humanizëm. Shqiptarët gjithmonë mburren (Si, shprehet Fahredin Shehu), me fakte që posedojnë “tolerancë gjenetike”, me fenë, jo vetëm brenda kombit, por kanë qenë ndoshta i vetmi popull që gjatë Luftës së Dytë Botërore, duke rrezikuar jetët e tyre, kanë shpëtuar Hebrenjtë nga gjenocidi nazist. Po ashtu, personalisht mburrem që e kam miqtë shqiptarë katolik e ortodoks, që shumë e respektoj dhe më respektojnë.
Prim.Dr. Salajdin Jagxhiu
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Post by Pejoni on Apr 3, 2008 10:58:00 GMT -5
I my opinion, the Vatican can go and screw themself, same goes for those Wahhabi guys runing around there, they should kick them all out!!! Religion is the last thing we Albanians should worry about.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Apr 4, 2008 1:15:56 GMT -5
^ i see what you are saying, but how can you even compare the vatican to wahabis,.... wahabi are extremists who are not friendly, are hostile and aggressive towards not just christians , but to muslims who are not wahabis. they force their believes on people by intimidation, threats and violence. the vatican does none of these things to gain new converts.
and please dont tell me about what the catholic church did 500 years ago or whatever, because that is irrelavent to todays direction of the catholic church.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Apr 4, 2008 1:21:22 GMT -5
I have met Dode Gjergji Kryeipeshkvi i Kosoves personally, and we went together in the Qendren Islame in Michigan, and Bektashi Teqe, he also came to my work (Albanian TV MI) and I can tell you that his words are totally twisted in that article, he is the BEST catholic priest ever (after Dom Lush Gjergji) and he was the one that told us to visit the teqe and xhami. His is friends with both religions, and a patriotic and very intelligent and nice guy too (very real too not fake like some)!
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Apr 4, 2008 1:40:34 GMT -5
I liked Mark Sopi very much, ndjesë pastë.
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Post by Pejoni on Apr 4, 2008 3:44:58 GMT -5
^ i see what you are saying, but how can you even compare the vatican to wahabis,.... wahabi are extremists who are not friendly, are hostile and aggressive towards not just christians , but to muslims who are not wahabis. they force their believes on people by intimidation, threats and violence. the vatican does none of these things to gain new converts. and please dont tell me about what the catholic church did 500 years ago or whatever, because that is irrelavent to todays direction of the catholic church. Where do you see me comparing them? I stated I dont want any of these missioners in my country wether it is Christians or Muslims and it doesnt necessarily has to be Wahhabism. You have Churches there and thank God for the net to get all the information necessary if interested. Who ever wants to convert is fine with me, but why having others come over and offer you few bucks or other AID to devote yourself to their belifs and automatically become religious. Sorry, but I have hard accepting it.
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