ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 30, 2008 13:29:56 GMT -5
I ve read about these people. I think its strange we have people in northeast Bulgaria, that speak turkic language and are orthodox. So where do u think they come from? Personally I think they are heirs of the Ciumans Petchenegs Uzi...
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 30, 2008 13:50:03 GMT -5
Early history and settlement
According to one of the theories the Gagauz descend from the Seljuk Turks that settled in Dobruja (Bulgarian: Dobrudzha (Добруджа); Turkish: Dobruca; Romanian: Dobrogea) alongside the Pechenegs, Uz (Oghuz) and Cuman (Kipchak) people that followed the Anatolian Seljuk Sultan Kaykaus II (1236-1276). More specifically, one clan of Oghuz Turks migrated to the Balkans during the inter-tribal conflicts with other Turks. After settling in the eastern Balkans (Bulgaria) this clan converted from Islam to Orthodox Christianity in the 13th century and became known as "Gagauz Turks".
There are other theories about the origin of the Gagauz. According to some authors, they are descendants of Turkic Bulgars, a semi-nomadic people, who gave their name to present Bulgarians [5]. According to another theory, most of the Gagauz are descendants of Orthodox Christian Greeks who adopted their Turkic language during the Ottoman rule of Anatolia like the Karaman Greeks of Konya. During the 1924 population exchange between Greece and Turkey, thousands of Gagauzians were defined from the Turkish authorities as 'fanatic Greeks' and they were considered exchangeable. Those people now live in parts of Northern Greece. Before the Soviet rule, Gagauz language was written with the Greek alphabet. The other opinions connected the question about the origin of Gagauz with Oghuz, Pechenegs or Cumans.
Turkic-speaking tribes of the Nogai Horde inhabited the Budjak region of southern Bessarabia from the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries. Before 1807, a portion of these tribes were forced to abandon the Budjak by the Tsarist government of Russia, resettling in Crimea, Azov and Stavropol.
Between 1820 and 1846, the Russian Empire allocated land to the Gagauz and gave them financial incentives to settle in Bessarabia in the settlements vacated by the Nogai tribes. They settled in Bessarabia along with Bulgarians, mainly in Avdarma, Comrat (or Komrat), Congaz (Kongaz), Tomai, Cismichioi and other former Nogai villages located in the central Budjak region. Originally, the Gagauz also settled in several villages belonging to boyars throughout southern Bessarabia and the Principality of Moldavia, but soon moved to join their kin in the Bugeac. Until 1869, the Gagauz in Bessarabia were described as Bulgarians. During the Rumanian rule of southernmost Bessarabia (1856-1878), they supported Bulgarian schools in their settlements and participated in the Bulgarian national movement.
The 1897 Russian Census did not distinguish the Gagauz as a specific group, but it reported the existence of 55,790 native speakers of a "Turkish language" (presumably, the Gagauz language) in the Bessarabian Governorate.[6]
With the exception of a five-day independence in the winter of 1906, when a peasant uprising declared the autonomous Republic of Komrat, the Gagauzian people have mainly been ruled by the Russian Empire, Romania, the Soviet Union, and Moldova.
The Gagauzes are characterized by the highest proportion of the Near Eastern DNA lineages. This fact agrees with the historically documented information on the migration of the Gagauzes to the Southern Bessarabia from the territory of the Balkan Peninsula. Genetic findings testifies to the emergence of the Near Eastern lineages in the Gagauz paternal gene pool, probably, long before the penetration of the Seljuk Turks and the Ottoman Turks into the Balkans. The analysis of the genetic distances confirms this reasoning. In population comparisons the Gagauzes are more closely related genetically to the neighboring southeastern European groups, than to linguistic-related Anatolian populations. More considerable distinctions in the distribution of Y chromosome components appeared between the Gagauzes and the Turkic peoples from Central Asia. Besides, in virtue of the lack of social barriers between the local and the Turkic-Orthodox populations of the Balkan Peninsula the ongoing intensive reciprocal gene flow was accompanied by the gradual dissolution of the Asian genetic component in the pool of Balkan genes. In this case is proposed the multi-step process of language shift in accordance with the elite dominance model, i.e. Turkification.[7] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz_people
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Post by Edlund on Dec 1, 2008 5:14:18 GMT -5
What a great intellect has our emperor - he has heard about wikipedia ;D
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Post by stambolov2025 on Dec 1, 2008 11:26:19 GMT -5
Does anyone have any credible sources about who these people might be?
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Post by besarab on Dec 1, 2008 11:29:57 GMT -5
dont forget one thing the gagauz people are turkic speaking christians of BULGARIAN SELFCONSCIOUSNESS. even now ,atleast the half of gagauz people that live outside Bulgaria have bulgarian or mixed[bulgaro-gagauzian] selfconsciousness.this would explain everything.
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Post by tsompanos on Dec 1, 2008 13:25:49 GMT -5
^^ if im correct there are more gagauz in greece than in bulgaria and there no bulgarian conciousness among them and probebly not in those in moldavia either, but its typicall modern day bulgarian to baptise everything that has lived inside the borders of todays geographical bulgaria as bulgarian not that gagauz did hstorically.
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Post by tsompanos on Dec 1, 2008 13:28:25 GMT -5
and what the hell is a christian anatolian?
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Post by Ivanov on Dec 1, 2008 15:15:03 GMT -5
One of my former colleagues was Gagauz. I asked her what do they think about their origin and she said that she doesn't know, but her people definitely like the theory of the old Bulgar descendance. She told me that the Gagauz people here have very strong Bulgarian consciousness and don't like the ethnic Turks. She didn't know Turkish language and said that none of the other young people does, only their grandmas and grandpas sometimes speak Turkish. I checked the voting results in one of the 100% Gagauz villages here - 30% of the votes ( a lot above average) are in favor of the two Bulgarian nationalist parties - VMRO and Ataka. The ethnic Turkish party receives zero votes.
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Post by Edlund on Dec 1, 2008 15:27:02 GMT -5
Does anyone have any credible sources about who these people might be? There are no sources, they were first mentioned in 19th century.
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Post by Edlund on Dec 1, 2008 15:33:13 GMT -5
I think it's most probable that they are Bulgarians who lost their Bulgarian language. Their Turkish language was the same like the language of the Turks of Bulgaria, so it's almost sure that they have learned it from them. And I don't think it's probable that they came from Anatolia as Turkish Muslims but for some reason decided to change their religion to Orthodox. The Christians in the Ottoman Empire were treated like animals, so I doubt that any group of people wanted to convert to Christianity. I've also spoken with Gagauzi from Bulgaria and they are Bulgarian nationalists, but this doesn't prove anything. The brainwashed Bulgarians in FYROM are Macedonian nationalists, the brainwashed Bulgarians in southern Serbia are Serbian nationalists, and many brainwashed Bulgarians in Greece are Greek nationalists. And also the Pomaks have Bulgarian origin for sure, but most of them don't have Bulgarian consciousness. So the modern consciousness is not so relevant when speaking about the past.
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Post by rusebg on Dec 1, 2008 17:17:44 GMT -5
Just as it is typical of Greece to baptise anyone who has lived anywhere and at any time in the Balkans as Greek.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Dec 1, 2008 17:46:29 GMT -5
^^^^ Thats a big generalization.
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Post by tsompanos on Dec 1, 2008 18:49:45 GMT -5
Just as it is typical of Greece to baptise anyone who has lived anywhere and at any time in the Balkans as Greek. not really , but hey you guys think the vmro where some kinds of saints do i need to say more?
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Post by stambolov2025 on Dec 2, 2008 0:53:06 GMT -5
but hey you guys think the vmro where some kinds of saints
Who is you guys, and which VMRO are you talking about.
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Post by tsompanos on Dec 2, 2008 1:51:00 GMT -5
actually never mind that i was thinking of your lost brothers the fyromskis
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Post by besarab on Dec 2, 2008 1:56:45 GMT -5
but its typicall modern day bulgarian to baptise... such statements really make me laugh, tzompanos. besides greeks,modern day greek nation consists huge numbers of arvanits, albanians,wallachs,bulgaro-macedonans,bulgarian muslims,turks,gipsy,jews,armenians,karakacans,yuruks,gagauz..............actually the real greeks are minority in the historical lands of elada.but any single census after 1923 estimates 99% greeks living there lets be more serious
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Post by tsompanos on Dec 2, 2008 2:17:23 GMT -5
well belive what you want besarab it doesnt mean its true
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Post by serban on Dec 2, 2008 3:07:49 GMT -5
I think that Gagauz can't be Ottoman Turks who have accepted Christianity because in Ottoman times Christians were treated badly, so I agree with Edlund. They could be either Seljuk Turks, Bulgars (Proto-Bulgarians), Kumans, Uzes, Pechenegs. Did the Tatars in the 13th century when they invaded Bulgaria speak a Turkic language or did they speak a Mongolian (Altaic?) language? Did some Tatars remain to live in Bulgaria after the 13th invasion? If yes to both questions then they might be Tatars too. That Gagauz are Turkified Bulgarians (not Bulgars) seems very unlikely. Many other Bulgarians converted to Islam and also took on Turkish language thus being assimilated. Why would they adopt Turkish language (meaning they wanted to become Turks and enjoy the privileges of the Muslims) but keep the Christian faith (meaning they would still not be able to enjoy those privileges)? I doesn't make much sense. I also agree with Edlund on this when he says: "I've also spoken with Gagauzi from Bulgaria and they are Bulgarian nationalists, but this doesn't prove anything. The brainwashed Bulgarians in FYROM are Macedonian nationalists, the brainwashed Bulgarians in southern Serbia are Serbian nationalists, and many brainwashed Bulgarians in Greece are Greek nationalists. And also the Pomaks have Bulgarian origin for sure, but most of them don't have Bulgarian consciousness. So the modern consciousness is not so relevant when speaking about the past."
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 2, 2008 4:26:56 GMT -5
The most interesting thing for me is: could they be the Bulgars? Because if they are that means the Bulgars didnt assimilate in our nation (linguistically) or at least not all of them.... Also if they are the Bulgars that would mean they were indeed a turkic tribe. Second: I included Anatolian Turks, because there are historic records that a Byzantine emperor has let some Turkish tribes from Anatolia settle in Northwest Bulgaria around 1230. Some 170 years before Ottomans taking Bulgaria. So they had alot of time to convert to orthodoxy.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 2, 2008 4:29:45 GMT -5
people that followed the Anatolian Seljuk Sultan Kaykaus II (1236-1276). More specifically, one clan of Oghuz Turks migrated to the Balkans during the inter-tribal conflicts with other Turks. After settling in the eastern Balkans (Bulgaria) this clan converted from Islam to Orthodox Christianity in the 13th century and became known as "Gagauz Turks".
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