Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Oct 26, 2007 17:34:25 GMT -5
I recently learnt something different and perhaps most people know it, but it made me rethink a lot about the differences between Turks and Greeks.
The Byzantine empire was taxing all small settlements on their land, this made the poorer Greeks and others suffer. When the Turks arrived in large settlements they refused to pay the tax and fought the Byzantine authorities, giving the Byzantines quite a headache, when the nearby Greek villages heard the Turks were refusing to pay and fighting against the authorities they asked to join the Turks and fought with them against the taxation, slowly as the news spread more Greeks started to join along with more Turks arriving the settlement grew and grew until - the start of the Ottoman empire began. So realistically Turks and Greeks started mixing 600 or more years ago, we fought the powers together and grew together, perhaps this is why Greeks were allowed such high places of authority in the Ottoman empire.
Now we are divided over religion - yet when disaster occurs we are the first to support each other. Abroad Turks and Greeks are always closer than other races. We share culturally so much, which is unique for peoples of different religions.
Shouldn't we start to behave smarter and become closer? respecting the past, yet being optimistic for our future?
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 29, 2007 8:07:51 GMT -5
I think we should be closer as well.... I think it would make it a lot easier if the turkish govt. stops their aggression towards Greece. Most Greeks are pretty much over what happened...but its an insult to expect us to accept nothing really happened. Your turkish minority is thriving over here and we are disappearing over there. Once that gets worked out...than i see better days ahead
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Oct 29, 2007 8:44:19 GMT -5
What type of aggression do you mean? If you are talking about the Military flights over the Aegean, I think its something the international authorities should solve. Apart from that I don't think there is aggression towards Greece. I truely do my best to understand Greek people's views towards the past and they have a right to be angry, I would be too. Maybe thats because I look at it from the outside rather than as part of it. Yet we could be the strongest alliance in southern Europe. Considering Im half Turkish Cypriot and the amount of propoganda I have heard from both the Greeks and Turks, I realised im just sick of it ALL. We need to let go and move on. Let Cyprus sort out its own issues. Both our militaries should start to work together, perhaps creating a more peaceful environment is going to give us much better economies and lifestyles. In the past Greek people in London have been much more honest and true towards me than Turks. In fact I will never forget how an elderly Greek lady that owned a cafe would chase me in the morning to give me tea and a sandwich for breakfast as I rushed to college, and how her son protected me from a group of blackguys that kept harrasing me to go out with one of them. How my friends mum would send me Kofte's to university cos they knew I liked it, Greek people are truelly warm people, I believe with very good hearts. I hate that just because of politics and governments we have drifted to be viewed as enemies, we both need to stop the 'Turks' n ''Greeks' issues that countries like the Uk and USA play on, and become our own (modern - economic) empire together as we did in the past.
I don't know am I asking for too much?
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 29, 2007 8:57:59 GMT -5
What type of aggression do you mean? If you are talking about the Military flights over the Aegean, I think its something the international authorities should solve. Turkey doesnt want to go the ICJ International Court of Justice...that would of happened long time ago...Apart from that I don't think there is aggression towards Greece. Invoking " Grey Zones " in the Aegean and undermining our soverignty under every chance given, and of course the cassus belli thing Yet we could be the strongest alliance in southern Europe. 100% agreement on that one. Considering Im half Turkish Cypriot and the amount of propoganda I have heard from both the Greeks and Turks, I realised im just sick of it ALL. We need to let go and move on. I also agree with you on that one as well Let Cyprus sort out its own issues. All for that one as well, How about Greece and Turkey both get out of the equation. Do you still think the TC's are threatened ?! Honestly ??Both our militaries should start to work together, perhaps creating a more peaceful environment is going to give us much better economies and lifestyles. They are doing that...Greek and Turkish airpilots are probably more friendly and respectful of each other ( on the ground ;D )than we actually get to hear.I don't know am I asking for too much? No youre not...and God willing that will happen one day. At least I hope so
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Oct 29, 2007 10:05:09 GMT -5
Turkey doesnt want to go the ICJ International Court of Justice...that would of happened long time ago...Can Turkey really stop it happening? Where do they get the confidence from? Invoking " Grey Zones " in the Aegean and undermining our soverignty under every chance given, and of course the cassus belli thing To be honest Im not sure about these subjects. I will try to find out more. No nation should unfairly undermine another nations soverignity. Casus Belli - is that where Turkey may attackshould they feel threatened? Turkey and Greece In 1995, the Turkish parliament issued a casus belli against Greece in reaction to an enacted extension of Greek territorial waters from 6 to 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the coast.[citation needed] Turkey has not removed this casus belli despite initiation of preliminary negotiations in order for it to join the European Union. Right - this would be solved by the international community as I stated before. All for that one as well, How about Greece and Turkey both get out of the equation. Do you still think the TC's are threatened ?! Honestly ??Tbh with you, there has been much psychological damage done. Example: We went to the graveyard with my mum to visit my grans grave. nearby on a mountain (Greek side) there is a GC checkpoint. Opposite (Turk side) there is a cafe/bar and shooting range. When my mum heard the shots she started panicing, a normal rational strong women suddenly wanted to run away from there, she lived with this fear since age 13, although I kept saying 'mum its not the GC its the TC side shooting range, she just wouldnt stop shaking(her friend had been shot there by a GC soldier in 63). Therefore although I do not believe there is a threat, the older generation have already been damaged, the younger generations can be the only ones to resolve there issues. They are doing that...Greek and Turkish airpilots are probably more friendly and respectful of each other ( on the ground ;D )than we actually get to hear.*very good news for me* No youre not...and God willing that will happen one day. At least I hope so Me too, long as dialogue can happen everything can be resolved, we both need tostopbeing pawns to the stronger nations.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 29, 2007 10:22:05 GMT -5
Can Turkey really stop it happening?
Yes, if there is a will, there is a way...
Casus Belli - is that where Turkey may attackshould they feel threatened?
In 1995, the Turkish parliament issued a casus belli against Greece in reaction to an enacted extension of Greek territorial waters from 6 to 12 nautical miles (22 km) from the coast.[citation needed] Turkey has not removed this casus belli despite initiation of preliminary negotiations in order for it to join the European Union.
Right - this would be solved by the international community as I stated before.
Yes, it can be solved at the ICJ. Cassus Belli means decleration of war. BTW under the maritime law Greece does have the right to extend its waters. So its not a violation in anyway....
Tbh with you, there has been much psychological damage done. Example: We went to the graveyard with my mum to visit my grans grave. nearby on a mountain (Greek side) there is a GC checkpoint. Opposite (Turk side) there is a cafe/bar and shooting range. When my mum heard the shots she started panicing, a normal rational strong women suddenly wanted to run away from there, she lived with this fear since age 13, although I kept saying 'mum its not the GC its the TC side shooting range, she just wouldnt stop shaking(her friend had been shot there by a GC soldier in 63). Therefore although I do not believe there is a threat, the older generation have already been damaged, the younger generations can be the only ones to resolve there issues.
I can fully understand what you mean...i have relatives that went through the same ( My grandparents were from Chalkedon ). War is a very horrible situation for ANYBODY to go through...Its a shame. The younger ones do not have this fear and that is why they should handle it themselves and kick the old timers out. That applies to both sides....
Me too, long as dialogue can happen everything can be resolved, we both need tostopbeing pawns to the stronger nations.
Absolutly, more specific UK and USA....they are profiting from our problems. I would gladly side with a Turk anyday against a Brit. I wouldnt think twice about it.
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Post by ahristos on Oct 29, 2007 10:24:12 GMT -5
no dialogue for aegian sea is 100% greek also for insel imia we took it from italy in 1947 italians knows the frontiers better u have start samata 4 funny samata with cibris greece armenians kurds what grusuz samata peoples u r turks u even are ungry with ur selfs
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Oct 29, 2007 11:22:41 GMT -5
^^^an example of an idiot^^^^
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
|
Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Oct 29, 2007 11:26:47 GMT -5
Fingers crossed the younger generations make peace... n idiots like ahristos expire. n the older timers can somehow get over it. Point now is lets get Turkey and Greece closer. Also another thing came to my mind- now the AKP is in power, they are pushing Turkey towards Islamic nations which is going to make even worse problems. Greece should really evaluate how they react to such moves as what the EU and Greece say and do at present could direct Turkey as friend or enemy in future. pft...
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 29, 2007 14:16:41 GMT -5
If this is not agression... then what is it? The Turksih external policy, instead of using the muslim minority in Greece like a brigde of friendship.... people like the ones in the video are appointed from the Turkish consultancy in Komotini... to mess things. Look at them... and you'll understand what Turkish aggression means...
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 30, 2007 6:13:53 GMT -5
Basil... its not like they have that much power anyways to change anything. Its just sad they still feel that way, especially in a country that provides them that right to express themselves. You give them an inch...they will take a mile If that happened in Turkey, those ppl would of been lynched by the grey wolves ( and thats if they are lucky ) They will get over it soon, they remind me of that rainbow party which represents the fyromians in Greece. They never gain any support ;D ;D
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Post by ahristos on Oct 30, 2007 10:35:50 GMT -5
guzel u need to.... f you verry mutch u are looking 4 it? greeks talks from expiriances and not from own imaginations at list turks overfly over greek islands even today 2 years ago dont you remember the heroic greek pilot who has try to stop your plane with hes life whow we can luv you unhumans peoples! we better prefer to have russian state in easterns frontiers or some alls cauntry then you now u are against kurds it looks like sandams continuation do u gonna throw them chemicals or what? now tell me who is ur friendly cauntry next ur borders name it i wond to know it
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Post by depletedreasons on Oct 31, 2007 2:56:24 GMT -5
I voted as "other" as I do not believe that we could come closer with Greece or with the Greeks as long as she remains a subordinate of the imperialist Western Block.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 31, 2007 3:28:46 GMT -5
I voted as "other" as I do not believe that we could come closer with Greece or with the Greeks as long as she remains a subordinate of the imperialist Western Block. Jan... If Greece is a subordiante of the west...than what the hell is Turkey ?!?! If anything, we are the most anti-west country in all of europe ;D Everybody knows this ! You guys however have been the US and UK lapdog for years ! Now you guys are getting upset cuz things arent working out your way....for years you have been more of a subordinate than any other country in SE europe, and that is the truth ! Dont throw stones in glass houses....
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Post by depletedreasons on Oct 31, 2007 5:12:39 GMT -5
Greece is a subordinate of the Western Block since 1821. That is why, Greece waged war on Turkey in 1912, that is why, Greece wanted to invade Asia Minor in 1920s, and that is why, Greece attempted to unite Cyprus with Greece (like it did for Crete), and that is why, Greece supported PKK and even sheltered Ocalan.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 31, 2007 6:12:44 GMT -5
Greece is a subordinate of the Western Block since 1821.
We got tired of being lazy in the ottoman empire and decided to take what is ours back....nothing to do with the " west "
That is why, Greece waged war on Turkey in 1912,
Turkey didnt not want to give back what they took...so we liberated ourselves. Turkey waged war on us.
that is why, Greece wanted to invade Asia Minor in 1920s,
Asia Minor has been Hellenic since antiquity. Only in the past 80yrs have our existance been wiped out due to the cleansing policies of the young turks. You tell me who invaded....
and that is why, Greece attempted to unite Cyprus with Greece (like it did for Crete),
Cyprus and Crete are both Hellenic islands from antiquity. Dont try to distort facts. We took what was ours...If you were to go Mongolia than you too can claim what is rightfully yours.
and that is why, Greece supported PKK and even sheltered Ocalan.
We dont support PKK, and if we ever did it was only a small group of ppl that new about it. There was never any official policy regarding them. We are not in love with the kurds...they are just as guilty as the turks in cleansing our ppls from anatolia
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Post by depletedreasons on Oct 31, 2007 8:39:18 GMT -5
Greece is not the succeeding state of the East Roman Empire, or any other empire existed in Asia Minor.
In a sense, expulsion of the Rums from Anatolia was partly due to the rise of the Greek nationalism, but it was also related to quite criminal European/Western policies that resulted in large scale humanitarian disasters and genocides in many other places and continents.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 31, 2007 8:57:57 GMT -5
Byzantine = Greece Ottoman = Turkey You also forget the Bactrian Empire ( Ancient Afghanistan ) which was also Greek. You surprise me sometimes Jan...You should know these things Anyway, I voted Yes
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Post by depletedreasons on Oct 31, 2007 9:15:06 GMT -5
Byzantine = Greece Ottoman = Turkey You also forget the Bactrian Empire ( Ancient Afghanistan ) which was also Greek. You surprise me sometimes Jan...You should know these things Anyway, I voted Yes Ottomans were mainly the Turks, but there were other nationalities as well. However, there was no such thing like Byzantine Empire. It is a term invented by your European friends, and in fact, there was a Roman Empire, and there were Romans.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 31, 2007 9:20:10 GMT -5
^^^^ Simply amazing !!! I cant believe you said something like that something very wrong with the educational system in Turkey....
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