tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Nov 22, 2007 16:34:38 GMT -5
The infos and the map you've given have nothing to do with croats. That was Bosnian kingdom's territory where Ottomans conquered and the people there were all called Bogomils, but not Croats. Their religion was way different than catholic faith of Vatican as well as the orthodoxy. Furthermore, the people around that region -you posted maps of- were the most loyalist citizens of Ottomans who accepted Ottoman identity and converted to Islam with their own free willings, but without any considerable battles. Since you are a hrvat, you are an expert of spreading the BS propagandas of 'hercegbosna' over Bosnia in any platform you join. Take my "matrak" message and try to get satisfied. obviously you have got no idea. firstly, the bosnian kingdom's territory formed out of territory from the croatian kingdom. during the croatian kingdom, there was no bosnian kingdom. bosnian kingdom came to birth only after the croatian kingdom dissolved into a joint crown with the hungarians. go do some research when the bosnian kingdom was first formed, and then go do some research on when the croatian kingdom ruling. croatian kingdom was before, bosnian kingdom came after. its the same peoples living there. secondly the bosnian kingdom was catholic, and majority of the peoples of the bosnian kingdom were catholics. this is a historically documented fact. thirdly, bogumils are a religious sect, not an ethnicity you fool. plus bogumils were only in bulgaria, but i'm guessing you are referring to the adherants of a heretic christian sect that existed in bosnia, who were known simply as krstjani, which simply means christians. the bosnian church followers is another term used for them, but the bogumil term is not correct even tho it is used by some people. fourthly, the members of that sect were a minority in the bosnian kingdom. also those people of that sect were actually catholics before. this sect was made by ex-catholics in bosnia. also most members of that sect converted back to roman catholicism, but it would be safe to say that any that stayed members of this sect wouldve been the first ones to convert to islam after the arrival of the ottomans in bosnia. i'm not spreading bullshyt propaganda. you are. the facts are that the croatian kingdom existed before there was ever a bosnian kingdom. secondly, a bosnian kingdom only formed after the downfall of the croatian kingdom. these are facts. you obviously know very little about the history of bosnia besides the fact that the ottoman empire conquered it, and that alot of locals became muslims. your knowledge on bosnia is pathetic. go do your research if you want to debate with me on something which i am very well informed on, and you know very little.
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yeni
Moderator
gulash freak
Posts: 327
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Post by yeni on Nov 22, 2007 16:57:34 GMT -5
Tyson Well actually the Turks conquered Sisak temporarly in august 1594. fenian I donno but here in Hungary Jurisics Miklós/Nikola Jurisic and Zrínyi Miklós/Nikola Subic Zrinski are considered to be heros, both were ethnic Croat Hungarian nobles and stopped big Ottoman armies. search info on them fenian
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Nov 29, 2007 18:37:39 GMT -5
thanx for mentioning that. actually i made a mistake regarding ottoman occupying some territory of slovenia. my bad. they did occupy a part of slovenian territory in the northeasternmost part of slovenia, called the prekmurje region. the ottomans ruled it for 120 years from 1566-1688. the prekmurje region is highlighted in dark red on this map of slovenia, courtesy of wikipedia:
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xaxca
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by xaxca on Jan 16, 2008 19:22:18 GMT -5
[for illyria.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=turkiyeturkey&action=display&thread=1192618598]Bamsi Böyrek Your post is at least 3 months old, but still, I decided to give my opinion on it. Hope you or someone is going to read it. *** New Nations from the Ottoman Lands Europe 1. Turkey 2. Bulgaria (545 years) 3. Greece (400 years) 4. Serbia (539 years) 5. Montenegro (539 years) 6. Bosnia-Herzegovina (539 years) 7. Croatioa –partial- (539 years) 8. Macedonia (539 years) 9. Slovenia –partial- (250 years) 10. Romania (490 years) 11. Slovakia (20 years) Ottoman name:Uyvar 12. Hungary(160 years) 13. Moldova (490 years) 14. Ukraine (308 years) 15. Azerbaycan (25 years) 16. Georgia (400 years) 17. Armenia (20 years) 18. Cyprus (293 years) 19. KKTC (293 years) 20. Crimea (291 years) 21. Poland (25 years) Protectorate Ottoman name: Lehistan 22. Italy-partial- (Otranto) (20 years) 23. Albania (435 years) 24. Belarus (25 years) Protectorate 25. Lituania (25 years) Protectorate 26. Letonia (25 years) Protectorate etc *** - Nice list. But I have objections: 10. Romania (490 years) - Wallachia, Moldavia and Transylvania were vassal states. Which means they were not osman provincies. Which means they were not "the Ottoman Lands". 12. Hungary(160 years) - Not whole Hungary. Since you mentioned "partial" talking about Croatia, you could do it as much well about Hungary. 14. Ukraine (308 years) - Only parts of Ukraine. Which can not give any ground to state something like "Ukraine was the Ottoman Lands for 308 years". 15. Azerbaycan (25 years) - Parts of its future territory were temporarily used by osman troops as positions during a war with Iran. It means nothing. It was a group of provinces of Iran and would remain such on. Until the death of Nadir. 16. Georgia (400 years) - Again, as with Ukraine, only a part of it. Which can not give any ground to state something like "Georgia was the Ottoman Lands for 400 years". And besides, part of Georgian territory is still occupied by Turkey. 17. Armenia (20 years) - Are you for real!? The whole historical and true Armenia is still occuppied by Turkey. All and still. Current Republic of Armenia just bears the name. It is as much Armenia as New England (in the US) is England. 20. Crimea (291 years) - Again, only a part of it. The biggest part was a sometimes more, sometimes less vassal state of Crimea Khanate. Again the inclusion in the "Ottoman Lands" list is groundless. 21. Poland (25 years) Protectorate Ottoman name: Lehistan - Groundless assertion. A fairy tale - to put it simple. The inclusion in the "Ottoman Lands" list is groundless 24. Belarus (25 years) Protectorate - A fairy tale again. The inclusion in the "Ottoman Lands" list is groundless. 25. Lituania (25 years) Protectorate - A fairy tale again. The inclusion in the "Ottoman Lands" list is groundless. 26. Letonia (25 years) Protectorate - A fairy tale again. The inclusion in the "Ottoman Lands" list is groundless.
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Post by srbobran on Jan 16, 2008 20:04:18 GMT -5
Wrong. Serbia ceased to be a kingdom in 1459 (for about 70 years after the Battle of Kosovo, we were a Turkish and later Hungarian vassal). We formed an autonomous principality in 1817 which was independent but had to pay tribute to the porte (similar to the Romanian states). That is 358 years of rule. Montenegro on the other hand, was never totally conquered and was a de facto independent country for the entire duration of Ottoman rule in the Balkans. Montenegro shouldn't even be on that list.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Jan 18, 2008 4:07:19 GMT -5
Hungary was already Official European Kingdom in 1000 AD .
It regained its independance from Austria Hungary but was a nation much earlier.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 18, 2008 12:54:15 GMT -5
Nevertheless, the modern nation spawned out of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
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Post by jerryspringer on Jan 18, 2008 15:01:52 GMT -5
Nevertheless, the modern nation spawned out of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Not quite, since Hungary, I believe, managed to maintain a continuity all along: when the Ottomans overwhelmed the land, a small portion of Hungary continued to exist under Austrian influence, as Royal Hungary. Later, the two countries formed Austria-Hungary. In all of these periods, Hungary maintained its status as a country. As for this site, it is a big, bad joke. Armenia is listed as being ruled for only 20 years. I emailed the creator of the site and his reply to me confirmed what I initially suspected: he wanted to make a point of how things can be manipulated. Of course, he took a wrong course and can only fool ignorant Americans. I wouldn't be surprised if Jenny is behind all of this.
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Post by aaayyy on Jan 19, 2008 19:29:38 GMT -5
?
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Post by depletedreasons on Jan 20, 2008 5:55:33 GMT -5
? Crimean Khanate was a part of the Ottoman Empire more than 300 years. However, if one includes the Khazar, Guzz, Cuman, Bolgar and Pecheneg presence in the region prior to the Ottomans, then one might say that the Turkish presence in parts of today's Ukraine was far longer than 300 hundred years. Prior to Mongol Invasion early 1200s
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Post by benettonsenetme on Jan 20, 2008 11:18:30 GMT -5
The Rus should be grateful to the Khazar Turks for preventing Islamic hordes from overrunning the steppes of eastern Europe!
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Post by depletedreasons on Jan 20, 2008 12:08:03 GMT -5
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Post by aaayyy on Jan 27, 2008 10:09:37 GMT -5
? Crimean Khanate was a part of the Ottoman Empire more than 300 years. Interesting logic. If former part of Ottoman Empire is a part of Ukraine now it doesn't mean that Ukraine was occupied by the Ottoman Empire
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Post by depletedreasons on Jan 27, 2008 10:52:52 GMT -5
Interesting logic. If former part of Ottoman Empire is a part of Ukraine now it doesn't mean that Ukraine was occupied by the Ottoman Empire There was no Ukraine back then, please read the topic's title once again, it might give you an idea.
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Post by aaayyy on Jan 27, 2008 16:17:20 GMT -5
Ukraine was part of Russia not part of Ottoman lands.
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Post by depletedreasons on Jan 27, 2008 17:18:14 GMT -5
Ukraine was part of Russia not part of Ottoman lands. I suggest you look at the historical maps again including the ones given below: Russia did not really exist until the Turks and Poles started to lose power.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jan 28, 2008 15:06:21 GMT -5
the years bulgaria was under ottomans are mistaken also. the Vidin kingdome of king Ioan Strazimir fell in 1396. The third Bulgarian kingdome was created in 1878. Its 482 years. By the way, its said Macedonia was less years under Ottomans, but it was captured before Bulgaria and was freed 30 years AFTER Bulgaria.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 28, 2008 16:55:02 GMT -5
Montenegro was only partially conquered(Montenegrin Sandzak and Zeta)
The Katunska Nahija was never conquered, it was pillaged by turk forces once or twice, but that is it.
Montenegro stayed independent for the most part.
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