Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 23, 2008 16:36:07 GMT -5
Do u understand this? There are some important facts that certain people on this forum need to learn: The land you live on hasn't belonged to you since eternity at some point ur ancestors would have fought for it. Therefore u took it from someone else! The Ottomans were a mixed race and for all u know some of your relatives could be those who took away your lands. Most importantly in this global age you need to get over the past and look to living in peace in the future What do u want us to do about past historic events? there is nothing we an do at the moment. Far as I know the Turkish and American presidents dont frequent this forum, therefore perhaps you should direct your complaints to them via there own websites.
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Post by Shmajser on Apr 23, 2008 17:35:48 GMT -5
Oh my God, such wisdom, amazing.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 23, 2008 17:53:28 GMT -5
Come on desire dont hide behind your finger.....you people do always refer to the Ottomans as your ancestors, the Ottoman Empire was a turkish empire, its official language was turkish. This "the ottomans were a mixed race" fairy tales are absurd, just to deflect from your responsibility. The Ottoman empire was a multiethnic state yes, but did the Christians of it never call themselves Ottomans, so they did never identify themselves with this state or the people that ruled it. So you can not portion any guilt or responsibility for crimes that were committed.
You Turks are seeing things too easy, just the way it suits you best, thats not very intelligent, its just the easiest way but that doesnt make it more true.
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storm
New Member
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Post by storm on Apr 23, 2008 18:00:25 GMT -5
i think the point she is trying to make is that many who complain about the Ottomans could have had ancestors who took part in their actions.
after the Ottoman empire fell many Muslims in former Ottoman colonies converted back to Christianity to escape persecution
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 23, 2008 18:14:22 GMT -5
Many French did support the Germans in exterminating the Jews as well, still its the German country that pays till today compensations every year and which apologizes again and again...not the French. And why? Because they are able to take responsibility for what their forefathers did. They dont care what the french did or if there were Austrians or French people who supported them to accomplish the holocaust. The succession of the Drittes Reich is the todays German state, as the Republic of Turkey is the succession of the Ottoman Empire. You have the same language...the same flag....you cultivate the graves of your sultans...and their palaces and mosques....while the churches are run to seed (look at my signature). Dont tell me bok now...please...
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storm
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Post by storm on Apr 23, 2008 18:21:13 GMT -5
Germany pays reparations because they were defeated after WW2, not because they want to.
the Ottoman empire was a Multi-ethnic one whose armies would have included peoples of countless ethnicities. it was never seen as a "Turkish" empire. in fact the Turkish ethnicity only came about following the creation of the Republic of Turkey.
have you never heard of the Millet system?
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Apr 23, 2008 20:30:57 GMT -5
Germany pays reparations because they were defeated after WW2, not because they want to. the Ottoman empire was a Multi-ethnic one whose armies would have included peoples of countless ethnicities. it was never seen as a "Turkish" empire. in fact the Turkish ethnicity only came about following the creation of the Republic of Turkey. have you never heard of the Millet system? Yes I have heard of the Millet System. It was one of the most oppressive systems on the face of the earth. It required Christians to remain at all times subservient to Turkish Muslims. Many Christians died under this system WHICH WAS RUN BY THE TURKISH MUSLIMS. The Christians who lived under this system were called Dhimmi and this is directly from Quranic laws which the conquering Turks adopted.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Apr 23, 2008 20:35:00 GMT -5
You should look at some Turkish census. They clearly differentiate between ethnicities and religions.
Greeks and Armenians were two of the only two ethnic groups who had nearly zero percent muslim population in Ottoman census. Interesting in how they no longer live in Turkey and have been wiped out through genocide and massacres. Where did all your smartest people go? Where did your economy go? Turkey cut all of it's ties to Europe when it wiped out its Greeks and Armenians.
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Post by fenian on Apr 24, 2008 1:53:22 GMT -5
There are no Greeks in Anatolia anymore because of the exchange migrations treaty signed between Turkey and Greece in 1920s. Almost no Turks/Muslims left, either in Greece where the muslims constituted nearly 40% of the total population.
Armenian were deported to safe areas abouts Syria and Lebanon to be returned some day, but they prefered to move off to France, the USA, Canada and other western countries rather than returning to Turkey. It's all what the Armenian genocide is called nowadays.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 24, 2008 4:28:50 GMT -5
I dont believe Germany is obligated to pay till today money to descendants of holocaust victims because they were defeated...and then being defeated in a war doesnt obligate you to apologize over 60 years later...its the good will that counts.
The thing is...the Turks dont deal with their history...at least most of them dont do. Perhaps their society also still doesnt have the neccessary mental ripeness to make such a discussion.
They (want to) see the Ottoman Empire as a huge apparatus of which they were only one of many knurls.
And exactly because of this incapacity....this reluctance to deal with what has happened in your past....I believe that history and past will overtake you one day.
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storm
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by storm on Apr 24, 2008 7:26:12 GMT -5
You should look at some Turkish census. They clearly differentiate between ethnicities and religions. Greeks and Armenians were two of the only two ethnic groups who had nearly zero percent muslim population in Ottoman census. Interesting in how they no longer live in Turkey and have been wiped out through genocide and massacres. Where did all your smartest people go? Where did your economy go? Turkey cut all of it's ties to Europe when it wiped out its Greeks and Armenians. You did not understand the point i was making. the Millet system classed you in terms of your religion, not ethnicity. if you look at the Census's Muslims of that time all Muslims are classified in one group in other words a Muslim Greek would be in the same category as a Muslim Albanian or Muslim Turk. as i said before following the collapse of the Ottoman empire there were mass conversions back to Christianity by former Muslims to escape persecution, so by criticizing the Ottomans you could indirectly be criticizing your ancestors and that isnt backward thinking that is logical thinking, you should try it once in a while
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 24, 2008 7:31:49 GMT -5
AAA The Ottomans official language was Osmanlica a mixture of Arabic, Turkish and Persian. The roots of the Sultans family were mixed with christians. Our flag is not the same as the Ottomans flag either, our language is also not written in the same arabic style structure.. You don't have enough knowledge to debate about this subject. Turkish only came into being when the Republic of Turkey was created. The Christians of the state called themselves Greek Ottomans, Armenian Ottomans and so forth. Crimes that were committed were also perhaps committed by the ancestors of modern day Greeks Armenians and so forth living around the world at present. Turkey is not an extension of the Ottoman empire - we are secular- being the main difference, we no longer have a millet system, our alphabet has changed so have our values. Turkey came into being by Ataturk defeating the western allies and the ottomans. Good day.. learn more perhaps and you may argue here
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storm
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Post by storm on Apr 24, 2008 7:32:36 GMT -5
I dont believe Germany is obligated to pay till today money to descendants of holocaust victims because they were defeated...and then being defeated in a war doesnt obligate you to apologize over 60 years later...its the good will that counts. most Germans dont want to be paying billions of dollars worth of compensation to Israel every year, their government does so as since they were invaded by the US after WW2 they have been effectively a lapdog of the US and do whatever they tell them. are the Turks the only nation who have trouble with dealing with their past? look at panagiotopulos and his denial of ethnic cleansing of Muslims from Greece.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 24, 2008 7:40:28 GMT -5
Panny and kasto dont have enough knowledge about Turks and Ottomans et since that part of their history lessons is conducted either in church or at the kitchen table
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Apr 24, 2008 8:27:52 GMT -5
I dont believe Germany is obligated to pay till today money to descendants of holocaust victims because they were defeated...and then being defeated in a war doesnt obligate you to apologize over 60 years later...its the good will that counts. most Germans dont want to be paying billions of dollars worth of compensation to Israel every year, their government does so as since they were invaded by the US after WW2 they have been effectively a lapdog of the US and do whatever they tell them. are the Turks the only nation who have trouble with dealing with their past? look at panagiotopulos and his denial of ethnic cleansing of Muslims from Greece. Your a brainwashed fuking turk. There are university campuses alll OVER THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW TEACHING ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE THAT WAS COMMITTED BY TURKS. No scholar has ever taken seriously Turkish accusations against Greeks or Armenians from the Turks. If they have it is because they are being heavily funded by the TURKISH GOVERNMENT. By the way what business does the Turkish government have in funding university departments in the United States? I hope that I have the chance to end someone like you someday.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Apr 24, 2008 8:30:46 GMT -5
Panny and kasto dont have enough knowledge about Turks and Ottomans et since that part of their history lessons is conducted either in church or at the kitchen table Well well well... coming from a woman who has about the same status as a dog in Turkey. Your not on the level of Greeks in any aspect of this world. Do not try to paint the picture different. You are primitive and your nation is founded on the blood of innocents.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Apr 24, 2008 8:31:10 GMT -5
Turkish Murderers.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 24, 2008 8:39:45 GMT -5
Yes we are a primitive nation that still ruled over ur nation for hundreds of years- which makes u ultra primitive Btw women had voting rights before Greece gave voting rights to women in Greece, what status does that give ur women? lower than a doG?
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storm
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by storm on Apr 24, 2008 10:27:40 GMT -5
Your a brainwashed fuking turk. you can talk. for somebody who goes around calling others primitive you are not exactly behaving like somebody who is progressive There are university campuses alll OVER THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW TEACHING ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE THAT WAS COMMITTED BY TURKS. No scholar has ever taken seriously they havent taken them seriously because of the strong Armenian lobbies which exist in countries like France and America. in France it is illegal to even question the Armenian genocide. I hope that I have the chance to end someone like you someday. LOL making empty threats over the internet is about as far as you will get
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 24, 2008 10:53:18 GMT -5
My ancestors have for sure not ever been muslims. In contrast the muslims have always been abhored among my family, and till today the word "Tourkos" (Turk) is a very negative one.
But I think its you who didnt understand me. The case you are describing with the reconverting Christians affects perhaps some hundreds of people...thats really no worth mentioning number. And at least it makes the Ottoman Empire a nonturkish empire.
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