Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 24, 2009 17:22:35 GMT -5
According to a 2008 report prepared for the National Security Council of Turkey by academics of three Turkish universities in eastern Anatolia, there were approximately 50 to 55 million ethnic Turks, 12,5 million Kurds (including 3 million Zazas), 2,5 million Circassians (Adyghe), 2 million Bosniaks, 1,3 million Albanians, 1 million Georgians, 870,000 Arabs, 700,000 Roma, 600,000 Pomaks, 80,000 Laz, 60,000 Armenians, 20,000 Jews, 15,000 Greeks and 13,000 Hemshins living in Turkey
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 24, 2009 17:31:28 GMT -5
Türkmen, Yörük, Tatar, Tahtacı, Terekeme, Karaçay, Azeri. Are classified as ethnic Turks.
2.5 million of the above Kurdish population deny being Kurdish and have become Turkified?
Bosniaks are found in Adapazarı, İzmir and Manisa.
Arabs live mainly in Siirt, Şırnak, Mardin, Diyarbakır, Şanlıurfa, Hatay, Adana and İstanbul.
Out of the 1.3 million albanians only 500 000 still actively speak albanian.
The Laz live in Rize and Artvin, and some areas of Marmara..
same goes for hemsin
Pomaks have become completely Turkish
The diminishing birth rates... every year..
Bosniaks 12/1000 . Turks 8/1000 Albanians 5/1000
The Kurds have the highest birth rates, every year up 2.5% yet they are also he fastest people to become 'Turkish and forget their origins'
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 25, 2009 1:41:31 GMT -5
Ethnic Groups In Turkey:
Turks(Anatolian ethnic Turks,Yoruk included) Greeks(Anatolian Greeks,Pontics included) Armenians(Hamshenis & Cryptos included) Kurds Assyrians Roma(Anatolian ones) Arabs
The "muhacir" groups:
Bosniaks Greeks(Grecian Muslim ones) Albanians Pomaks Vlachs Romas(Balkan Romas) Balkan Turks Crimean Tatars Karachay-Balkarians Nogays Karakalpaks Kumyks Ossetians Laks Chevneburis Adyghe Lezgi Abkhaz (This and below the same? Not sure yet!) Abazas Ubykhs Chechens Inguish Turkmen Sephardi & Ashkenazi Jews of Europe
Not sure about them,but are in Turkey:
Persians Azeris
Others in Turkey:
Bosphorus Germans Serbs of Istanbul Poles of Polenozkoy Anatolian Bulgarians Afro-Turks,Africans of Turkey of East African descent
Others,not sure whether its just a few people or established settlements in Turkey:
Chinese Estonians Uyghurs Uzbeks Kazakhs Turkmens of Turkemnistan
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 25, 2009 6:30:04 GMT -5
For fuck sakes!
They are NOT ethnic Turks!
Thats totally absurbed!
Its like saying Kurds are Persians and the English are Germans!
Altaic Peoples:Turkic,Tunguistic and Mongolic <-3 Branches!
Turkic:Turks(Anatolian,Cypriot,Balkan),Turkmen(Syrian,Iraqi,Iranian,Turkmenistan ones),Uzbeks,Kazakhs,Uyghurs,Tatars,Kumyks,Azeris and many others!
Look at the Indo-European peoples:Slavic,Germanic,Iranian among the branches
Germanic:English,Danes,Swedes,Germans,Dutch and others
Iranian:Persians,Kurds,Tajiks,Ossetians and more
For you to go and lump the Turkics as Turks would be to dismiss their history and own cultural distincness!
Yes,I know,they have similarities to varying degrees to ethnic Turks,but thats because they are of the same branch!
There's a lot of similarities between the Germanic Danes and Swedes for example,but they are each a distinct group!
Just because your goverment or whatever says they are "Turks" doesnt mean they are right
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 25, 2009 6:42:08 GMT -5
According to a 2008 report prepared for the National Security Council of Turkey by academics of three Turkish universities in eastern Anatolia, there were approximately 50 to 55 million ethnic Turks, 12,5 million Kurds (including 3 million Zazas), 2,5 million Circassians (Adyghe), 2 million Bosniaks, 1,3 million Albanians, 1 million Georgians, 870,000 Arabs, 700,000 Roma, 600,000 Pomaks, 80,000 Laz, 60,000 Armenians, 20,000 Jews, 15,000 Greeks and 13,000 Hemshins living in Turkey I don't think you have finaly ...managed to have so many Greeks.... some 3-4.000 in Polis...old men... Whats that " Zaza"...is there anyone who say " I'm Zaza" ;D ;D?? Tell them to change their ethnonym...they won't be taken seriously with that name... ;D
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 25, 2009 6:43:12 GMT -5
Zaza is said to be Kurdish related.Some of them even say they are distinct from Kurds
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 25, 2009 6:46:03 GMT -5
Turkic is a european word. Turk is an ancient word used by each nation to identify themselves.
All the subgroups u tried to turkicfy are Turks
Zaza are an Interesting group, who don't identify with other Kurds usually, and are pretty modern and non religious.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 25, 2009 6:51:55 GMT -5
Well,the Ottomans didnt identify themselves as Turks.And the ethnic Turks of Turkey,Cyrpus and the Balkans are Ottoman derived.
By the way,Turkic,thats how we do it today! Thats the word,the group word for the ethnically related peoples.So,Turkic
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 25, 2009 6:58:15 GMT -5
No thats how you choose to do it. I have met lots of Kazah, Ozbek, Azeri, Turkmen, Abaza, and Tatar who describe themselves as Turk. We speak the same language.
In fact the Turks of Turkey have been diluted way more than the central Asian turks, one women said to me " we are more Turk than you" and she is probably right.
As for Cyprus... many Cypriots know there roots going far back as do I.
The Ottomans were a Turkish empire, that also became diluted but that doesn't change the fact culturally they were more Turks than anything else.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 25, 2009 7:03:35 GMT -5
I suppose Arnavuds are the best osmanli tsoglans in Turkey, right?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 25, 2009 7:06:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't know. do u mean Oğlan? like in boy? as in the slang form of the word?
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 25, 2009 7:10:11 GMT -5
We say tsoglan, the young bum-punk...and the kid who do all the dirty work for you...i think its from turkish iç oğlan...
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 25, 2009 7:11:55 GMT -5
The Ottoman Empire,Turkish? Well,yes,but ONLY because its related to Turkey.Hence,Turkish because of the connection to Turkey.Today,you can say they are a Turkish Empire,but if your about during the past,yes,if you connect to TURKey.
What do you mean by diluted? Recent intermarriage with muhacirs?
Describing anything related to your country as Turkish is because foreigners called you Turks,long long time ago until your country-makers took it and used it to great effect.
Example,Syro-Lebanese immigrants to the Americas and Australia were called Turkish because they came from the "Turkey"(Ottoman Empire).
Rugayah Hanim,the Circassian grandmother of the third Malaysian Prime Minister,was always described by Malaysian newspapers as a Turkish woman when books on his family history and records in Istanbul say that she was a Circassian woman.
People from my region also saw the Ottoman Empire as a Turkish Empire,so of course anything from it,TURKISH!
They learned it from the Europeans and maybe Arabs too,cuz the Arabs also saw them lowly.Remember? The barbarian thing?
Those ppl who you met who said that,either dont know what their talking about or referring to their Turkisness in regards to Turkey.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 25, 2009 7:13:37 GMT -5
hmm ok, because oğlan usually means "giver of thy arse" lol.
but also means small boy.
As for doing the dirty work.... according to them, they ran the Ottoman empire LOL, so perhaps they worked there own people huh?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 25, 2009 7:15:54 GMT -5
The Ottoman Empire,Turkish? Well,yes,but ONLY because its related to Turkey.Hence,Turkish because of the connection to Turkey.Today,you can say they are a Turkish Empire,but if your about during the past,yes,if you connect to TURKey. What do you mean by diluted? Recent intermarriage with muhacirs? Describing anything related to your country as Turkish is because foreigners called you Turks,long long time ago until your country-makers took it and used it to great effect. Example,Syro-Lebanese immigrants to the Americas and Australia were called Turkish because they came from the "Turkey"(Ottoman Empire). Rugayah Hanim,the Circassian grandmother of the third Malaysian Prime Minister,was always described by Malaysian newspapers as a Turkish woman when books on his family history and records in Istanbul say that she was a Circassian woman. People from my region also saw the Ottoman Empire as a Turkish Empire,so of course anything from it,TURKISH! They learned it from the Europeans and maybe Arabs too,cuz the Arabs also saw them lowly.Remember? The barbarian thing? Those ppl who you met who said that,either dont know what their talking about or referring to their Turkisness in regards to Turkey. The Ottoman Empire was started by who? Were they nomadic? What was their ethnicity? What language did they speak? What culture did he have, and spread to the empire. Why is the Turquoise stone called as such?
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 25, 2009 7:32:45 GMT -5
Turquoise? Really? Because please dont start "with that" thing!!!! You knoooooooow? Some Turks even think Turks & Caicos is Turkish because Turks went there when they didnt.Most famous of them all was Attaturk. And yes,the Ottomans were a nomadic Oghuz Turkic group who culture was heavily mixed with Persian and other Indo-Iranian culture as well from the Arabs but they were still that Oghuz Turkic group.Their language was heavily mixed with Arabic and Persian too and even Farsi was used for some important things by them when they were part of the Seljuks. Oh and they adopted,AGAIN,lots of the culture of Anatolia
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 25, 2009 7:38:03 GMT -5
Why not u seem to be rambling on without any evidence or facts..
Turk also has another meaning in the business world.
The Ottomans were group mixed heavily with Greeks and the other people living in Anatolia, all other ethnicity's entered into the empire through conquering.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 25, 2009 7:47:08 GMT -5
Maybe the arnavud is bothered because you monopolise the osmanlik... ;D
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 25, 2009 7:56:34 GMT -5
Why not u seem to be rambling on without any evidence or facts.. Turk also has another meaning in the business world. The Ottomans were group mixed heavily with Greeks and the other people living in Anatolia, all other ethnicity's entered into the empire through conquering. Ottoman culture was mixture of Turkic,Persian,Arabic,Anatolian Greek,Armenian,ancient Anatolian Indo-European and other Anatolian cultures. Now,that whole mixtures,is called Turkish. Ok,you say I never present evidence,but same as you.You know,sort off,on what I'm talking about without me having to totally break it down into tiny details. On what Ive' said,you should be able to SEE it
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 25, 2009 8:00:43 GMT -5
I have clarified what I mean, and what you have written is not an argument you are actually agreeing with me. The difference is I can take about the Ottomans through knowledge of conferences, books, documentaries, in both Turkish and English. Whereas you can only go to wikipedia and take whatever any old person has written as fact. The Ottomans were predominantly Turkish and a short while later, Turkish and Greek. The Greeks joining the Ottomans took part in the fall of the Byzantines.
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