donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Jul 28, 2009 14:20:03 GMT -5
Raven is correct. The 1,3 million Albanians are those with recent ancestry, mostly Kosovar Albanians who fled from Kosova to Turkey during the first half of the 20th century. It is estimated that they were around 100,000 people at the least, disregarding those who were perhaps present even earlier, who fled there during the 1910s, 1920s & 1930s. An additional influx from Kosova came during the 1950s and 1960s during Rankovic's years. A number of Albanians also fled from Cameria during the inter-war period, though I don't know their numbers. Altogether, people with Albanian and partial Albanian ancestry ranging around 1,3 million people sounds plausible.
This doesn't however account for those masses that were assimilated in the early course of Ottoman history, in the 19th, 18th, 17th and 16th centuries. The descendants of Janissaries alone should make up for a great number of people.
PS Was surprised to see more Bosniaks than Albanians in Turkey. Are they predominantly the descendants of muhacirs from the 1870s?
|
|
|
Post by Vizier of Oz on Jul 28, 2009 15:09:40 GMT -5
Yes they do! They actually say they are Turkistanli - this is the Central Asian Turkic region. Stop trying to disassociate ourselves from each other! look thracian i cant be bothered to argue with you. Kazakhs Uzbeks etc dont call themselves Turks and certainly dont care for any kind of Turanian unionism. if you dont believe it fine Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan use Latin script like Turkey, and their relation with Turkey is quite fair and improving over the years. Kazakhstan and Kirghistan still use Cyrillic script and keep their distance a bit. Do they care for Turanian union? Perhaps Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan could be interested, but I am not sure about Kirghistan and Kazakhstan.
|
|
|
Post by Vizier of Oz on Jul 28, 2009 15:26:15 GMT -5
PS Was surprised to see more Bosniaks than Albanians in Turkey. Are they predominantly the descendants of muhacirs from the 1870s? After the 2nd Siege of Vienna, Bosnians started to emigrate to inner parts of the empire on various occasions. Bosnian migration continued even after 1923. A source I found states that a total of 270.000 people emigrated from Yugoslavia to Turkey between 1923 and 1960. www.obiv.org.tr/2005/Balkan/hoksuzl.pdf
|
|
|
Post by thracian08 on Jul 28, 2009 15:27:44 GMT -5
Raven, Uzbeks and Kazaks do see themselves as Turks. I've met many who say they are.
The Russians tried to distinguish them from each other by enforcing different alphabets on each. However, I don't think it will last long..
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 28, 2009 19:31:07 GMT -5
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Jul 29, 2009 4:02:29 GMT -5
^"Tourkalvaniko Symposium"... ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by fazlinho on Jul 29, 2009 4:17:48 GMT -5
PS Was surprised to see more Bosniaks than Albanians in Turkey. Are they predominantly the descendants of muhacirs from the 1870s? After the 2nd Siege of Vienna, Bosnians started to emigrate to inner parts of the empire on various occasions. Bosnian migration continued even after 1923. A source I found states that a total of 270.000 people emigrated from Yugoslavia to Turkey between 1923 and 1960. www.obiv.org.tr/2005/Balkan/hoksuzl.pdfI can witness for this, as my grandparent's family itself went to Turkey around 1925, they stayed in Izmir for 2 years, but eventually returned to Bosnia, the whole of the family. I know that one of his brothers (it was a biiiig family, like 7-8 kids) had a child with a Turkish woman but I don't remember if he stayed in Turkey or not.
|
|
Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
|
Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 29, 2009 18:14:48 GMT -5
Turkic is not a Turkish word TURUK = TURK outsiders may try to divide but Turks know who they r
|
|
|
Post by hellboy87 on Jul 30, 2009 11:38:43 GMT -5
Turks are the last people to know who they are and most dont
No one divide Turks.They branched off from each other themselves.Many ethnic groups with same roots did that too. Normal
Kinda crazy using your reasoning for saying Uzbeks,Kazakhs,Turkmensand and Turks are just Turks.
How bout Germans,Swedes,Danes,Norwegians,ditching their distinctiveness and history and calling themselves just German? Or Punjabis,Gujaratis,Marathis,Bengalis just calling themselves Indo-Aryans! I'm half Punjabi and we never see ourselves as that.
|
|
Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
|
Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jul 30, 2009 12:37:16 GMT -5
U don't speak the same language, u don't have the same culture, U don't have the same history, you don't have TURAN. Understand ?
As I said before, Turkic is a word invented by NON Turks. TURUK is where Turk comes from. Turkish Cypriots define themselves as TURK. Kıbrıslı TURK, not just Cypriot,,, you understand, in Azerbeijan there are also Russians and Georgians and what not, but they are all Azeri, apart from the fact the Azeri Turks, always define we are Azeri Turks, just recently they were on the news saying to Turkey not to do anything to hurt their brothers (the Azeris) by even communicating with Armenia, so shhhh
|
|
|
Post by thracian08 on Jul 30, 2009 13:16:37 GMT -5
Agreed Desire Hellboy talks crap all the time. He has no clue. Turks were divided into different tribes like the Arabs. There is no distinctiveness in history between Turks. We all hold the same traditions, and we are all military people ! We were rulers in India, Iran, Turkey, and we ruled the Arabs !
|
|
|
Post by chalkedon on Jul 30, 2009 14:14:14 GMT -5
cmon guys...hellboy is alright... I know he has a way of getting on your nerves, but what he says isnt stupid.
I also agree with the turks here " feeling is believing "....and as turks you probably have a different viewpoint which is normal.
|
|
|
Post by hellboy87 on Jul 31, 2009 22:15:17 GMT -5
U don't speak the same language, u don't have the same culture, U don't have the same history, you don't have TURAN. Understand ? As I said before, Turkic is a word invented by NON Turks. TURUK is where Turk comes from. Turkish Cypriots define themselves as TURK. Kıbrıslı TURK, not just Cypriot,,, you understand, in Azerbeijan there are also Russians and Georgians and what not, but they are all Azeri, apart from the fact the Azeri Turks, always define we are Azeri Turks, just recently they were on the news saying to Turkey not to do anything to hurt their brothers (the Azeris) by even communicating with Armenia, so shhhh No,they dont call themselves Kibrisli Turks,they called themselves Kibrisli.Look at the names of high ranking Ottoman people from Cyprus! They put Kibrisli in their names,no Turk. Calling themselves Turkish Cypriots is somewhat recent. Same with Iranian and Azerbaijani Azeris! Calling themselves Turks or linking themselves with Turkicness is a recent thing. Sure,Turkic is a word invented by non Turks.But it serves a purpose.It refers to speakers/ethnic groups of a branch of the Altaic language family,Turkic:Kazakh,Uzbek,Uyghur,Turk,Tatar,Kumyk and many more. And very importantly,as I've said many times,the Ottomans,who the Turks derive their identity from,did not even call themselves Turks! Also,during the Ottoman Empire,the citizens,who would be classed as we call ethnic Turks of Turkey today,too,didnt call themselves Turk,unless they were being sarcastic or wanting to be the laughing stock of others around.
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 31, 2009 22:20:31 GMT -5
Stupid statement and argument. The names with -li only pointed to an original homeland where ones origins could be found (after they moved). Thus one would say "from Cyprus"(Kibrisli). These did not point to ethnic origins nor does it even touch upon that. Otherwise every single person in the empire would have a name that signified his ethnic origins.
|
|
|
Post by hellboy87 on Aug 1, 2009 4:05:41 GMT -5
yes,I know that about the naming thing.But still,I have never seen anything being written about Turkish Cypriots during the Ottoman times referring to themselves as Turkish.
|
|
|
Post by hellboy87 on Aug 1, 2009 4:49:04 GMT -5
by the way,there are people during Ottoman times who included their ethnicity as part of their full name:Cerkez Ethem/Ethem the Circassian.
Here's something on Turk being a derogatory term:
Even the ethnonym “Turk” for all Turkish-speaking people of the Ottoman Empire (and sometimes for all Muslims) and the very ambiguous toponym “Turkey” with a new meaning were imported by Ottoman intellectuals from European languages: The term ‘Turk’, had been used in the Ottoman official idiom for ‘crude, ignorant, nomadic’ people in a patronizing manner: “… until the 18th and 19th centuries the Turks, usually thought of as the heart of the empire, took only a limited part in governing, and the very name of ‘Turk’ was used to mean ‘uncouth peasant lout’. … ‘Turk’ was an insulting epithet not only among the meritocracy, but also the Istanbul populace at large.”134 - Bulent Bilmaz
|
|
|
Post by thracian08 on Aug 3, 2009 15:03:00 GMT -5
You cannot define to me who is and is not a Turk.
Uzbeks, Azeri's, Turkish people, all say they are Turk. In fact, they say they are from Turkistan - land of Turks.
Actually, yes the Soviets did divide the Turks. DUH !!
They changed their alphabets to be differnent from each other b/c they're scared of them unifying. This is what many people do to keep them in power.
Ottomans was a multi-ethnic empire and was named of the founder of the empire - Osman. It wasn't a racial terminology you idiot.
Why would it be a recent thing to call themselves Turks. Hello ! People know who they are!
They didn't just discover that they are Turkish!
|
|
Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
|
Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Aug 3, 2009 15:19:25 GMT -5
So u as a Malasyian Indian mixed chinese whatever' are telling me as a Cypriot Turk' that Turkish cypriots don't say Kibrisli Turk..
lmao .. whatever man
|
|
Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
Posts: 832
|
Post by Aris on Aug 4, 2009 17:48:31 GMT -5
The American-Albanian civil league claim <12.000.000 of Albanians in Turkey ! The province of Izmir is claimed to have <75% Albanians !
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Aug 5, 2009 15:54:27 GMT -5
The province of Izmir is claimed to have <75% Albanians ! Turks...please tell me that this thing is false...I can't stand Smyrne to has such fate....
|
|