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Post by Ivanov on Oct 28, 2009 14:58:15 GMT -5
Ottoman Empire should revive at the Balkans, Turkish foreign minister says28 October 2009 | 17:36 | FOCUS News Agency Sarajevo. The Ottoman Empire should revive, said Turkish foreign minister Ahmed Davutoglu during a talks with Bosnian leaders in Sarajevo, Macedonian A1 television informed. Davutoglu has praised Turkish occupation of Bosnia as an act of release and noted Sokollu Mehmet Paşa would have been an ordinary man of he had not been taken from his family. In his words Turkey has the right and interest to influence the relations at the Balkans, Caucasus and Middle East and to defend its historical heritage and its own security. According to him there are more Bosnians in Turkey than in Bosnia and Herzegovina and more Albanians than in Albania, A1 noted. www.focus-fen.net/?id=n198625www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=115511
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Post by rusebg on Oct 28, 2009 16:19:36 GMT -5
I have read that line of thoughts from some Bosnian members here. I suppose the Turkish minister knows very well where to make such comments.
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Post by Ivanov on Oct 28, 2009 16:25:31 GMT -5
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Post by tito on Oct 28, 2009 21:35:58 GMT -5
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Post by insomniac on Oct 28, 2009 21:50:06 GMT -5
Interesting subject.
My take on it is if Ottoman Empire did not disintegrate. Balkans today would've been the richest and focus point of Europe. Along with Northern Africa and those areas around Lebanon. Imagine if Ottomans invaded and succeded in taking over Austria and the rest of Western Europe. Today those countries would be peripheral.
Ottomans did have quite the culture and economic might. Also Ottoman was a multi-religious empire with many muslims but also christians. It was also relatively tolerant for those times. Balkan countries would be more important. For example, Albanians had the most veziers.
Who knows. It might not been a bad idea.
But a revival today in modern times is pretty unrealistic. Our countries are heading towards the West (EU).
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Post by hellboy87 on Oct 28, 2009 21:57:01 GMT -5
what bs! This davutoglu!!!!
Its just another imperialistic narcissisitic behaviour of parasitic Turks!
Bosniaks must fiercely object to this kind of nonsense from those inferiors!!
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 28, 2009 22:12:54 GMT -5
"Ottoman Empire should revive at the Balkans, Turkish foreign minister says"
No f'ing way, they should keep their dirty hands out and concentrate on their own crappy country.
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Post by tito on Oct 28, 2009 22:24:26 GMT -5
what bs! This davutoglu!!!! Its just another imperialistic narcissisitic behaviour of parasitic Turks! Bosniaks must fiercely object to this kind of nonsense from those inferiors!! Not at all, the Ottoman empire played a positive roll in Bosniak history and for Bosnia the Ottoman empire was much like the European Union is for Bulgaria today(in a positive way). And when Turkey becomes a member of EU(the most influential one right after Germany) the Ottoman dream will become a reality once again Insha'Allah and the Roman Empire will finally be reunited. No f'ing way, they should keep their dirty hands out and concentrate on their own crappy country.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 28, 2009 23:53:56 GMT -5
what a stupid idea. not one country in the bolkans would be happy about such revival, with the exception of bosnia. not even albania. bulgaria, greece, romania, serbia, montenegro are defffinately against.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 29, 2009 0:46:04 GMT -5
1. By new Ottoman Empire I dont think Davutoglu implies the Christian Balkan nations. I think that he principally seeks to unite Balkan Muslims (Bosnians mostly, alongside Albanians and various other Muslim groups).
2. I have already opened a topic regarding this, what is termed as "Neo-Ottoman" policy by Turkey, which is found by increased presence in the Balkans, as opposed to the more passive approach in the 90s, pushing a position as a "moderator" and "uniter" between Balkan Muslims (hosting a recent convention whereby Muftis from all over the Balkans came together), and increasing investment and presence in these countries.
Whether it will succeed or not remains to be seen. Im skeptical that Turkey could really push its arm through in a territory that is now pretty firmly in the hand of EU regional influence. I dont see my Albania falling into it, neither can I see divided Bosnia be able to really succumb to it. Macedonia, considering her fragile position... maybe. Kosova? Increasing number of Albanian students from there studying in Turkey, increased presence in the southern area and increased cultural presence... means something but again, Im skeptical...
Its a rather interesting change by traditionally hesitant Kemalist Turkey into a policy that is clearly non-Kemalist... a novel idea as well... but I dont see it going anywhere outside of cultural influence.
Turkey will not be entering EU (as we say in Albanian: "hidhuni perpjet"). Furthermore, as more time passes the less likely it is, by now the chances are at zero. France is entirely against and so is Germany for the most part. Other nations play "good EU member" role in pushing for Turkey to join, but the reality for all is clear.
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Post by tito on Oct 29, 2009 1:20:51 GMT -5
Turkey will not be entering EU (as we say in Albanian: "hidhuni perpjet"). Furthermore, as more time passes the less likely it is, by now the chances are at zero. France is entirely against and so is Germany for the most part. Other nations play "good EU member" role in pushing for Turkey to join, but the reality for all is clear. The reality is that Turkey only needs to complete the remaining 34 chapters and when that happens France will be in no position to object. The walls of Vienna fell in October 2005 so there is no turning back now.
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Post by tito on Oct 29, 2009 3:11:18 GMT -5
The return of Ottomanism Roaming through the streets of the old imperial capital Istanbul is a true feat for a provincial Ankaran like myself. Almost every corner of this city offers the depth, history and mysticism that our official, almost artificially modern capital so severely lacks. However, the contrast between the two cities is not only limited to their backgrounds or the heritage of their historical monuments. Neo-Ottomanism, the revival of the intellectual legitimacy of the Ottoman Empire, is fully at work in many of the major cities of Turkey. That being said, Istanbul most effectively demonstrates the intellectual return of Ottoman culture in our social, cultural and political lives. Within a half day of strolling around Sultanahmet one cannot but notice boards indicating Ottoman clubs, foundations that research Ottoman studies or other signs of a distinct revival of our Ottoman past. Last week I noticed that the Turkish Armed Forces now own up to the Ottoman coat of arms, for years a sign of Islamism/Ottomanism, now most visibly demonstrated with stickers on cars throughout Turkey's major cities. Turkish army museums now freely display the Ottoman coat of arms as part of our military/state heritage. These are of course very healthy signs. Yet, these were anathema only a decade ago, when symbols of our Ottoman heritage were still regarded as signs of backwardness or dangerously Islamic. What then is going on in Turkey? Why is Osman making such a forceful return that no part of society can deny or resist? There are a multitude of reasons. The most significant reason is that fundamentally the doctrines of the republic have been unable to respond to the moral and ethical needs of Turkish society. The republic was successful in creating a political superstructure which made a leap towards becoming a modern country possible. The republic also accomplished fundamental reforms which eventually led Turkey to a multiparty democracy. Yet the style was authoritarian, did not permeate to the public level effectively, and remained by and large a project of the elite. Large segments of the country remained beyond the reach of the republican project to transform Turkey from the top down. However, the most significant deficiency was the inability to provide a secular ethic, a moral code that would respond to the needs of Turkish society. Not all was gloomy. In some areas the nation-building was successful, but even these gains were limited. A critical turning point was the discrediting of the Marxist-Socialist model, which occurred with the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Unable to respond to a multitude of challenges including globalization, the Turkish nation-state moved onto the defensive. The global rise of identity politics and the concomitant ascent of religion continue to defy the intellectual legitimacy of the republic, which was founded on the basis of a secular, unitary state based on constitutional citizenship. It is under these conditions that neo-Ottoman tendencies have gained considerable momentum in Turkey. On the foreign policy front as well, from Bosnia to the Crimea, and from Karabakh to Iraq, Turks are constantly reminded about a distinctly Ottoman geopolitical space. From the domestic to the external domain, neo-Ottomanism is back in swing and reasserting itself within the Turkish elite. Turkey's intellectual regeneration is destined to continue for some time -- as the prominent Turkish writer Cemil Meriç years ago noted, not by disassociating ourselves from the past, but on the contrary, by embracing our rich and diverse Ottoman past and culture and marrying them with the positive and modernist gains of the republic. 20 March 2007 www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=105869
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Oct 29, 2009 3:42:30 GMT -5
The reality is that Turkey only needs to complete the remaining 34 chapters and when that happens France will be in no position to object. The walls of Vienna fell in October 2005 so there is no turning back now. That very romantic way to look at EU-Turkey relations. I still believe that EU does not have a strong position on the subject if Turkey should be allowed to enter EU. Sarkozy, Austria etc. are not very firm that Turkey would ever enter EU.
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Patrinos
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Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 29, 2009 4:08:49 GMT -5
Will devshirme work again?
Let them unite with Uygurs and Tataroturkmans... and they can take the rest alvanobosniaks in Asia...
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 29, 2009 6:21:39 GMT -5
Balkans, "the richest and focus point of Europe" - the Burkina Faso of Europe.. Great imagination, or are you nuts?! North Afrika, Lebanon, the North Iraq - all nice focal points too. Besides, The Balkans were a desintegrated place, even before the Ottomans.. in fact, an easy nut for Ottomans to crack.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 29, 2009 7:01:15 GMT -5
I know, Tadich is a sellout and bends easily. See what happens when the serbs and their loony government did, they go off to Turkey telling the turks that they respect their countries territorial integrity...then shortly later....they (the turks) recognise kosovo.
Now again Tadich has a pro-orientation stance for Turkey's ambition for EU integration.....is he f@#%$^^ nuts?
NO MORE MONGOL ACCEPTANCE INTO THE BALKANS, SICK OF THEM!.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 29, 2009 7:03:36 GMT -5
Balkan states, with Byzantion leading, was a much advanced place in comparison with Flandre, Bavaria, Burgundy, Saxony etc etc.
They were just good axe-bearers with their furry capelets... They were never stopped to be seen as barbarians by Greek writers... and their barbarocity was shown in 1204 and the Sack of Polis...
Turks were a disaster._
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Post by rusebg on Oct 29, 2009 7:04:59 GMT -5
Where exactly do you see Mongols in the Balkans, Novi? I am struggling to find such ethnicity here.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 29, 2009 7:12:54 GMT -5
^ turks don't speak a indo-european lingo, but an altaic mongol one........agree?.
Ruse, do you believe the balkan nations should have a closer economical tie with Turska?
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Post by rusebg on Oct 29, 2009 7:20:44 GMT -5
Novi, let's call things with their real names. I am the last person to praise Ottomans and what they did but they were not Mongols. Neither today Turks are. At least not in their majority. As for the economic ties... they exist. Tons of Turkish products everywhere in the Balkans. Most of them cheap useless crap but they are on the market. Just like the Chinese.
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