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Post by dusko1 on Dec 24, 2009 1:33:07 GMT -5
What do you think are some differences in some Montenegrins? I mean the difference between northern & southern (coastal) or western or eastern if there is any. I find the northern ones different from the southern (coastal).
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 24, 2009 12:36:10 GMT -5
There are differences culturally and even racially I would say
1-Coastal has a strong Italic cultural influence and appears even somewhat mixed with them (similar to Dalmatia in that way)
2-Old Hercegovina has a tall atlanto-med influence and to appear as by far the most beautiful populace in the world.
3-Brda or northern Montenegro has a strong light dinaric variant present and it would be similar to old rascians.
4-Cetinje region has a specific so called old-montenegrin type that some antropologysts find comparable racially and even cul;turally to dorian Sfakia in SW Crete and some (probably albanized montenegrin) albanophone tribes in NW Albania.
5-Some regions towards Albania and Kosovo also show the so called albanian specialty of inverted triangle faces (also not majority perhaps in many albanian regions themselves).
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gavrilo
Amicus
Vi ste svi banane
Posts: 840
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Post by gavrilo on Dec 24, 2009 14:16:46 GMT -5
aadmin must be from hercegovina =D
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 24, 2009 16:17:24 GMT -5
Actually I am from Bjelopavlici region and thus bordering Old Hercegovina but technically part of Brda and just north of Cetinje.
Basically heart of Montenegro geographically speaking.
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Post by dusko1 on Dec 24, 2009 17:33:22 GMT -5
3-Brda or northern Montenegro has a strong light dinaric variant present and it would be similar to old rascians. Do you mean "thracians" ?
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Post by malsor4life on Dec 24, 2009 18:42:21 GMT -5
I havent been to all places in Monte, but ive definately noticed the coastal/inland difference---the coastline ppl tend to be shorter and rounder faces.
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Post by coke&broke on Dec 24, 2009 19:57:24 GMT -5
There are differences culturally and even racially I would say 1-Coastal has a strong Italic cultural influence and appears even somewhat mixed with them (similar to Dalmatia in that way) 2-Old Hercegovina has a tall atlanto-med influence and to appear as by far the most beautiful populace in the world. 3-Brda or northern Montenegro has a strong light dinaric variant present and it would be similar to old rascians. 4- Cetinje region has a specific so called old-montenegrin type that some antropologysts find comparable racially and even cul;turally to dorian Sfakia in SW Crete and some (probably albanized montenegrin) albanophone tribes in NW Albania.
5-Some regions towards Albania and Kosovo also show the so called albanian specialty of inverted triangle faces (also not majority perhaps in many albanian regions themselves). Hahahahaha, so you basically took what Coon said about Montenegrins; "linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the cultural continuity between the two peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion" And added your own twist to it so that it fits with your "Montenegrin" and Hellenic agenda. . It's interesting to know that you hail from the Bjelopavlici plains, AAdmin and thus are most probably a part of the Bjelopavlici Clan who are descendents of an Albanian man from the Dukagjini region in Kosova named Pal Bardhi (White Paul in Albanian). Pal Bardhi's brother was Gasho who incidentally is the founder of the Albanian Clan Gashi. This information can be easily obtained from Slavic sources and when many Montenegrins trace their family tree, they more often than not find that they have Catholic Albanian ancestors (Like our very own Illyria member PARTISAN/Njegos).
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Post by malsor4life on Dec 24, 2009 20:24:00 GMT -5
Aadmin Dje si Shqipo...come home, MAMA is calling--she wants her kids back. ;D
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Post by dusko1 on Dec 26, 2009 16:24:42 GMT -5
3-Brda or northern Montenegro has a strong light dinaric variant present and it would be similar to old rascians. Do you mean "thracians" ? Never mind. I thought you made an error. I never heard of rascians until now. So pretty much they're Slavs.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 26, 2009 16:27:13 GMT -5
Please, dont let them discover the truth. Remember Boletini's words about the coming spring. It will not help the cause if we get it into our heads that these people have the same origins and blood.
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Post by dusko1 on Dec 26, 2009 16:54:13 GMT -5
Please, dont let them discover the truth. Remember Boletini's words about the coming spring. It will not help the cause if we get it into our heads that these people have the same origins and blood. Some people might have those same origins & some of us not.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 26, 2009 19:41:29 GMT -5
Please, dont let them discover the truth. Remember Boletini's words about the coming spring. It will not help the cause if we get it into our heads that these people have the same origins and blood. Of course Serbs and Albanians have mixed all across the boarderline but claiming all Montenegrins as Albanian is ridiculous. Most Serbs claim their heritage from Montenegro anyway & if you think Montenegrins have more in common with Albanians then other Serbs you are massively kidding your selves.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Dec 26, 2009 20:41:34 GMT -5
Question to anyone who might know; Where exactly is the region Zeta located, which Montenegrin tribes belong there? And where is the line drawn between Malesia and Zeta?
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Post by MurlaniHotit on Dec 26, 2009 22:46:01 GMT -5
The border between Zeta and Malesia is Vrana and Mataguzhi. Mataguzhi belongs to Zeta and Vranja to Malesia.
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Post by coke&broke on Dec 27, 2009 0:44:33 GMT -5
Please, dont let them discover the truth. Remember Boletini's words about the coming spring. It will not help the cause if we get it into our heads that these people have the same origins and blood. Of course Serbs and Albanians have mixed all across the boarderline but claiming all Montenegrins as Albanian is ridiculous. Most Serbs claim their heritage from Montenegro anyway & if you think Montenegrins have more in common with Albanians then other Serbs you are massively kidding your selves. No one is claiming that ALL Montenegrins are Albanians; however if you're a Montenegrin belonging to a highland Clan such as the Piperi, Bjelopavlici, Kuci, Vasojevici, Ozrinici etc. (and other clans whose names escape my mind right now) then it is safe to assume you have Albanian ancestors as the forebearers of these Clans were Albanian in origin and blood relatives of the founders of the Albanian Clans of Berisha, Gashi, Krasniqi, Hoti, Kelmendi etc. As I've stated before, this information was also accepted by Slavic scholars and Historians, and by Montenegrins themselves; but in the tide of Anti-Albanian politics and feelings not many Montenegrins want to be associated with "Siptars" and will not accept the truth regarding their ethnic background and instead fabricate and convulote history to suit their own nationalistic agenda i.e Novi Pazar's incessant bullshitting on all thing's historical and political.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 27, 2009 1:30:37 GMT -5
I've spent time with Piperi in Radovce. They argue from household to household. One neighbour is a Serb, the other a Montenegrin, the next a Yugoslav who had a mansion built for him because he was Tito's close army men. I never asked them if they were Albanian but I think all would have blown my head off.
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Post by MurlaniHotit on Dec 27, 2009 2:11:54 GMT -5
I don't think any Albanian here proposes that Piperi, Vasojevici, Kuci, Bijelopavlici, etc are Albanian now, we are simply stating the fact that their origins are Albanian, and some of it is documented fact and not just myth. I would suggest you ask some of the older people from those areas about their origins. You might be surprised at what you find.
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masa
New Member
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Post by masa on Dec 27, 2009 17:02:31 GMT -5
No one is claiming that ALL Montenegrins are Albanians; however if you're a Montenegrin belonging to a highland Clan such as the Piperi, Bjelopavlici, Kuci, Vasojevici, Ozrinici etc.
I believe the statement may hold water in terms of lots of people back then changed identities, and assimiliated into their surroundings, also through marriages.... And in some of the above named areas there was marriages between 2 ethnicities.
Ozrinici though is in the Niksic area?? I know that history showed that the malisor last name Bojaj originated from Zupa/ which is within Niksic area ,however thats about it in that area
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 27, 2009 21:20:02 GMT -5
First of all do not fall for Albanian propaganda.
Montenegrins look NOTHING like vast majority of Albanians and look racially like a exaggerated variant extension of Epirotic type (which appears interrupted in central Albania by Albanian inverted triangles which seem to be Mongoloid or at least Asian in origin).
Only some Albanians from surrounding areas bordering Montenegro resembles us and those are without any doubt albanized Montenegrins. They are Catholic in religion and this can only be derived from Zeta which was the only catholic state in that area and which controlled all these areas. In fact only areas controlled by Zeta have catholics in northern Albania.
The whole of Albania is super saturated with slavic toponyms and there are no recorded remains of albanian language that supercede 500 years.
Their language can not and will never be a remaining illyrian language since there is ample evidence that southern pre-Roman Illyrians (that lived in regions where albanophones now live) were thoroughly Hellenic in culture and language whether through being hellenized or not. Later on many other Illyrians become romanized.
There is no way a separate language of a very primitive mountain dwelling 'culture' would ever stand a chance of survival next to such cultural super centers such as Hellas and Rome and even less one situated between them.
They appear to be on some level connected to Romanians via speech which probably puts a place of origin of earliest albanophones what is today border area between Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania. They appear to be connected to Vlachs and appear roughly during the later crusader years and early ottoman presence within Balkans. There is no way that seperate culture like their would have been unnoticed for centuries by local powers and historians until well into middle ages (way after Zeta state).
In what way are they similar to Montenegrins when most of them were loyal subjects of Ottomans (exception being these catholic albanophones in NW Albania) who only became independent due to Ottomans leaving the areas and guided by western axis powers who did not want to see Serbia border Greece in that void.
They claim Skenderbeg when he himself saw himself as Epirotic and descendant of Alexander (hence his name being the turkish verion of Alexander) and whose seal was written in Greek to mean "King Alexander, by the grace of God, Emperor of the Romans, the great ruler of the Turks, Albanians, Serbs, [and] Bulgarians." Thus king of eastern hellenophone Romans (now known as Byzantines) and RULER of Albanians and others. Obviously albanization has not taken that much of a toll yet.
This is a case where some shepherd people appear in middle ages (perhaps standing side by side next to Vlachs for some time) and influence locals linguistically in what is now Albania through time and whose language becomes a amalgamation between some sort of Dacian/Thracian (perhaps some relation to very primitive Dardanians.. of wait.. they would have disappeared for way more then a millennium at that point), Slavic, Greek, Latin and Turkish. First used by medieval Serbia, Byzantines and later Ottomans. Without any sense of ethnicity (only tribal or religious) until late 19th century/early 20th century when the spark itself starts (by axis powers).
Ortodox Albanophones in Greece were die hard hellenes probably due to the fact that they still remembered their Hellenic origins before becoming albanized and remain today.
Conquered with ease by even Italians in early 20th century who were themselves defeated by spear throwing Abyssinians and who exist not due to their own effort but because western Ginnie was relased from the bottle that grants 'wishes'.
Similar to Montenegrins. Yeah, right.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 27, 2009 21:57:24 GMT -5
Aadmin exploded. LOL!!!! Hilarious. His true emotions finally come out. Too bad the tantrum is nothing but a small minded Wikipedia knowledge derived BS.
Aadmin, face it. You have no education. You have only the most basic reading knowledge to sustain your wikipedia reading. You are nothing but a small man, like Highduke once said. Relax yourself. If you think that you, as a Montenegrin, have something to be proud of it is a joke. If taken simply from you, Montenegrins do not come out very strong. On the contrary, tt would be a joke to think a person like me (erudite, well cultured, intricate) to have something in common with you (blue-collar, ignorant, lonely, a simple minded laborer dying to be something he is not).
Relax yourself and find a good spot in your society.
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