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Post by Edlund on Feb 8, 2008 7:53:24 GMT -5
Here's a document from November 1912, during the Serbian occupation of Veles:
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Post by terroreign on Feb 8, 2008 16:14:27 GMT -5
Site nije zname deka srbomanite se okupirali makedonija nekogash ama samo za malka vreme, otad makedonija bese parca od Ottomanska Carstva
Znaes li neli
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Post by Edlund on Feb 8, 2008 18:47:02 GMT -5
Macedonia is occupied by Serbia during the Balkan wars and after the WWI until WWII. After WWII the Macedonian nation and language is created. Today I know that some Macedonians are aware of the fact, that there was Serbian occupation, but most Macedonians know very little about it. In this document can be seen that there was ressistance from the people in Veles, although the Serbian view was that in Macedonia live Serbians. This document doesn't mention the ethnicity of the resistance fighters, it only calls them "komiti". We know from tons of other documents what their ethnicity was.
The document also says there was "war tribunal" in Skopje, which means that there were lots of resistance fighters, who were put on trial.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 8, 2008 19:55:46 GMT -5
Interesting document!.
"although the Serbian view was that in Macedonia live Serbians."
Some Serbians will believe that Vardar is purely serbian, some like myself will honestly believe that its mixed (l'm not being neutral, its what l really believe), others think that its Bulgarian.
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Post by radovic on Feb 8, 2008 20:27:16 GMT -5
Of course there would be resistance. According to FYROMians there was resistance to Bulgarians in WWII.
It's only natural that at least a part of the population rebels when they are occupied whether the people are of the same ethniticity or not.
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Post by besarab on Feb 13, 2008 11:28:44 GMT -5
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Post by zgembo on Feb 16, 2008 12:51:55 GMT -5
Macedonians existed before the nationalistic policies of Bulgaria and Serbia (and their respective churches) attempted to incorporate them in the 19th century. Freedom to Pirin Macedonia, which the Bulgarians still occupy.
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Post by besarab on Feb 17, 2008 2:29:13 GMT -5
eh marko let's live the emotions aside.this is not a ,,komitis''[vardar fans]meeting. do you have any comment of this.have you seen all those documents.have you ever knew about theyr existance.that's the interesting. read them carefully- ::)when finish -ihave couple of thousands more to show you ...pozdrav brate
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Post by Arxileas on Feb 17, 2008 4:55:12 GMT -5
Macedonians existed before the nationalistic policies of Bulgaria and Serbia (and their respective churches) attempted to incorporate them in the 19th century. Freedom to Pirin Macedonia, which the Bulgarians still occupy. Not true, Pirin Macedonia is an urban myth. Bulgaria was promised Greater Bulgaria through the treaty of San Stephano in 1878. When the Ottoman Empire was defeated Bulgaria was able demand any land it wanted. Map of Treaty of San Stephano in 1878. They where not rightful Bulgarian lands since they where not their ethnic territories but this occupation was very short and brief because Bulgarians were ordered out via the decision of the treaty of Berlin soon after and left with this small geographical part known as Pirin Macedonia [cough]. Did this name name Macedonia ever exist ? Let’s examine the facts. According to the existing archives there was no objective reference to a "Macedonian" nation, in the beginning of the 20th century. Every official census reported only Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian populations and no "Macedonian" nation. In 1877, according to a map (British E.Stanford 1877) the area of Macedonia was mainly inhabited by Greeks, and in smaller amounts, Albanians, Turks, Vlahs, Serbs, Bulgarians. In 1904 the Turkish census of Hilmi Pasha for Thessaloniki, Monastiri, Scopje doesn't report any "Macedonian" nation. In 1906 the Turkish census of Hilmi Pasha for the area of Macedonia doesn't report any "Macedonian" nation. In 1926 the League of the Nations doesn't report any "Macedonian" nation in Southern Macedonia. Suddenly, in 1948, the encyclopaedia Britannica publishes a census that has discovereded a hidden, for any previous census, "Macedonian" nationality (about 66.1% of the total population in FYROM). If such a nation or ethnos ever existed, then there should be at least a 10% of "Macedonians" in every census (at least in the turkish census), shouldn't there? Macedonia means Greece so hence no mention of a Macedonia nation. Shall we say that the Spartans, Athenians and Cretens were a nation too despite the facts prove the contrary ! These people of FYROM are of Slavic back ground but with a Bulgarian conscious, all done through the days of the KOMITADJI "Bulgarian bandits"
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Post by jerryspringer on Feb 18, 2008 13:42:00 GMT -5
Besarab, what does your nickname mean?
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Post by besarab on Feb 19, 2008 1:30:21 GMT -5
it doesnt come from ,,arab'' besarabia is a geographic and historical area in moldova and southwestern ukrain now populated mainly by bulgarians. in distinction of another bulgarians[ the makedonians]-those from besarabia are extremly proud of theyr ancestry.they are rich ,educated and they are the elite of the moldovian and ukrainian society. in one word-besarabia is everything what makedonia isnt
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Post by zgembo on Feb 19, 2008 2:47:38 GMT -5
All your dates are from the 19th century. Fact of the matter is, there was no national awareness among Macedonian Slavs of a Bulgarian identity before the Bulgarian Orthodox Church started spreading its propaganda in the 19th century. They were Orthodox Slavs who lived in the historic region of Macedonia.
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Post by Arxileas on Feb 19, 2008 7:23:08 GMT -5
All your dates are from the 19th century. Fact of the matter is, there was no national awareness among Macedonian Slavs of a Bulgarian identity before the Bulgarian Orthodox Church started spreading its propaganda in the 19th century. They were Orthodox Slavs who lived in the historic region of Macedonia. True there was no awareness because "you should know this" it had to be created. Piont I'm going to make here is this. Everyone living in the geographical region of Macedonia was calling them self's Macedonians including the Turks for georgraphical reasons and nothing more. BUT this ethnos never existed. This awareness it was created in late 1800's. Claiming georgraphical location of birth and ethnicity cannot be mistaken, that it's self is self evident.
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Post by besarab on Feb 19, 2008 13:13:15 GMT -5
there was no national awareness among Macedonian Slavs of a Bulgarian identity before the Bulgarian Orthodox Church started spreading its propaganda in the 19th cent ;D i like this , i like this marko hah!! so--would i be right if i say-,,there was no national awareness among makedonian slavs of a makedonian identity before comintern and tito represive mashine started spreading theyr propaganda in the second half of 20th century'' if we agree on this -then there is nothing to comment.
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Post by jerryspringer on Feb 19, 2008 13:44:01 GMT -5
That's interesting, Besarab, but why would you choose to use a nickname of a region which was named after the founders of Wallachia?
Bulgarians constitute 1.9 percent of Moldova and Bessarabia is quite large, so I doubt you form a majority there.
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Post by besarab on Feb 20, 2008 1:31:10 GMT -5
:Dhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessarabian_Bulgarians see the official data about the number of bulgarians in some parts of besarabia.-the total number of bulgarians in moldova and ukrain is more than 300 000-again according official data.unofficially they are more than a milion,including those from some neighbouring regions of russia. and now -let s add into this the gagausians-theyr origin is still disputable ,but most of the scientists consider them turk speaking bulgarians.predominant part of gagausians have bulgarian or mixed[bulgaro-gagausian]selfconsciousness. you can guess now what i ment when said ,,mainly by bulgarians''.no need to say that nowday prime minister of moldova is a bulgarian. now look at the map in the link i sent you and you ll see that besarabia is not quite larger than moldova but it is a small part of southern moldova and it also occupyes a very very small part of southwestern ukrain. -you have to specify ur knowledge.. well the area is named after valachian leader besarab indeed,but it has great importance for bulgaria and bulgarians........ now -why did you chose a nick name wich sounds so much like the name of anita baker ;D ;D
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Post by jerryspringer on Feb 20, 2008 15:01:03 GMT -5
Yes, I know about Mr. Tarlev. He's pulling the same story that the Macedonians do to Bulgarians: that Moldovans are different from the rest of the Romanians. It seems Bulgarians have a great talent at dividing people.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 20, 2008 15:30:28 GMT -5
it doesnt come from ,,arab'' besarabia is a geographic and historical area in moldova and southwestern ukrain now populated mainly by bulgarians. in distinction of another bulgarians[ the makedonians]-those from besarabia are extremly proud of theyr ancestry.they are rich ,educated and they are the elite of the moldovian and ukrainian society. in one word-besarabia is everything what makedonia isnt Nice to hear that from a fellow Bulgarian! You just make me even more proud to be Bulgarian! I think we should grand citizenship to the besarabian Bulgarians in a very quick way and refuse it to fyroms!
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Feb 20, 2008 15:35:25 GMT -5
All your dates are from the 19th century. Fact of the matter is, there was no national awareness among Macedonian Slavs of a Bulgarian identity before the Bulgarian Orthodox Church started spreading its propaganda in the 19th century. They were Orthodox Slavs who lived in the historic region of Macedonia. However every single traveller, examinor, passinger describes those people as Bulgarians. In the middle ages they called themselves Bulgarians (Ivan Radomir, the niece of Samuel, left a stone inscription in which he wrote that he "is Bulgarian by origin"). The only text we read that those people were just "slavs" STRANGELY are in Serb sources (1 or 2, but very exagerated in Serbia, and from there in its puppet state fyrom). Macedonia was geographical region since at least early middle ages, the same as Thrace, Misia etc.
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Post by besarab on Feb 22, 2008 1:46:51 GMT -5
anitas-what do you have against bulgarians.any proper parallel between bulgaro-makedonian and romano-moldovian issues cant be maked. bulgarian name exists since 3th century p.c when it was mentioned in a roman anonimous chronograf as national name .more than 17 centurys allready this name is to describe the ethnicity of the ppl from moesia ,dobrudza ,trace,rodopa,besarabia and macedonia. now-tell me about romanians???there wasnt such a name at all.there were vlachs and moldovans since very begining.and the moldovans truly had theyr state earlyer.and this state was greater than valachian kingdoms.in 14 cent.it was leading european power--right.romanism is much much later political idea-much similar to yugoslavism.you know what i mean if you are a romanian.just let me say--no bad feelings toward romanians
ioane ,blagodara za ubavite dumi.s boga naprej -shte ia ima balgaria vinagi
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