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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 29, 2009 4:09:59 GMT -5
"Slavic toponyms in Albania are mostly Bulgarian !!!!! "
Sorry they are mostly serbian, the serbs were already well established in Albania prior to the arrival of the Bulgar empire in Albania.
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Jun 29, 2009 4:14:49 GMT -5
Novi Ruse already enlightened u on Petrich. Please read what others are posting, not just your non sense serbian propaganda.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 29, 2009 4:28:09 GMT -5
^ Correction Ioan, not propaganda but fact and they arn't serbian sites, 99% of my information are from western sources which you guys have yet to debunk ;D
The Bulgar Selishev showed us all the serbian topoymns ;D
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Post by shejtani on Jun 29, 2009 5:27:40 GMT -5
Actually the text is published in a very very very nationalist website, and I never said the author is Serbian, I said the website is, which is true. Plus the fact that the author is not Serbian doesn't mean he's right ... And Selishev didn't say Slavic toponyms in Albania were Serbian.
He adopts only one point of vue : the Serbian point of vue, this is very very clear. And He makes several mistakes.
Some of the mistakes:
- Not a single toponym in Kosovo is Albanian ... false ! There are Albanian toponyms in Kosovo. - Livadi, Livadasi, Coban, Cesma, Dusmani are for sure not Slavic Toponyms (the two first are Greek, used in Albanian and Serbian languages, the three last are Turkish). Plus I don't think Malibarde is a Slavic toponym but I'm not sure (I think it's a corruption of Mali i bardhë --> Bjela Gora in Serbian. Brdo exists but the trascription in Albanian is Bërdo and not Bardo ... Bardo seems to be related with Bardhë which means white in Albanian and Mali means Montain in Albanian). I'm not sur for Draci ... I know this is the Slavic name for Durrës but the toponym "Draci" appears later in history, and the Albanian form is clearly derived from the antique form ! I'm not sure that Bukmira is a Slavic toponym, I think (but I'm not sure) this is related to the Albanian Bukmirë whiwh means good bread. I also think (but I'm not sure) Darda is related to the Albanian word Dardha (pear) and is not a Slavic toponym (Slavs transcription gives Darda because in the Slavic languages, the "dh" doesn't exist). And I don't think either that Niksi is a Slavic toponym (it seems related to the Nikaj tribe). - Most of the Slavic toponyms in Albania are found in the South of the country ... and the South of the country was once populated with Bulgarians, not Serbians (for exemple, they built the town of Berat ... which is called Belgrad in Bulgarian).
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 29, 2009 5:39:57 GMT -5
Shejtani, you are wrong again. Livadi is word adopted by Serbs very early. same with the legendary word "KLISURA". The word is greek but it does not mean what the serb word means. In greek (KLEISOURA) it is not a usually used word, it is a word of "common" speech and it could mean the smell of a room which has been "CLOSED" (KLEISTO) for a long time.
However we have toponyms in Epirus named "KLEISOURA"!! and they are like little valleys inside canyons!!! Nothing to do with the smell hey???
Enuf said.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 29, 2009 5:40:53 GMT -5
Shejtani, I'm not going to bother!.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 29, 2009 5:43:26 GMT -5
Pyrro, Shejtani might even claim Jovan Vladimir ,a montenegrin, as a Bulgar?
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Post by shejtani on Jun 29, 2009 5:46:44 GMT -5
Shejtani, you are wrong again. Livadi is word adopted by Serbs very early. same with the legendary word "KLISURA". The word is greek but it does not mean what the serb word means. In greek (KLEISOURA) it is not a usually used word, it is a word of "common" speech and it could mean the smell of a room which has been "CLOSED" (KLEISTO) for a long time. However we have toponyms in Epirus named "KLEISOURA"!! and they are like little valleys inside canyons!!! Nothing to do with the smell hey??? Enuf said. I forgot Klisura in the mistakes, I didn't know it is a Greek word. The word Livadi is adopted in every Balkanic language my dear ... and its origin is Greek, so YOU are WRONG ... not me ! The word is not Slavic, point.
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Post by shejtani on Jun 29, 2009 5:47:11 GMT -5
Pyrro, Shejtani might even claim Jovan Vladimir ,a montenegrin, as a Bulgar? Come on man, I don't claim anything on Jovan Vladimir ... I'm just telling you that he makes mistakes, which is true. Are you going to say that Dusmani, Cesme, Livadi etc are Slavic toponyms ??
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 29, 2009 5:56:08 GMT -5
Novi take a look at this: the historical village Bizani in Epirus. There is only one Bizanj in Croatia! Take a look at this map! It has Gorica, Bizanj, Serbiana in the center of the map, what else to talk about?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 29, 2009 6:01:11 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 29, 2009 6:10:28 GMT -5
^ Thats interesting Pyrro. Pyrro there are Greek topoymns in serbia, l'm sure of it
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 29, 2009 6:40:52 GMT -5
No problem man! Truth above personal feelings! no Epirotic toponym will become from Serb->Greek and no Cretan toponym from Greek->Serb, even if some ppl turn blue! Thats the way historical truth works!
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 29, 2009 12:07:13 GMT -5
"Interestingly enough, the "Serbian" national identity was absent among locals even uptil the 19th century."
cut the drugs.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 29, 2009 12:11:53 GMT -5
Cannot believe I read these words from you. ---------------
Is it not interesting that until very lately, the "Serbs" of Kosova never adressed themselves as Srbi, but rather as Kosovci; their term for their language was simply "nas jezik", never srpski; so weak was their "Serbian" identity, that in 1905, the young consular official, Milan Rakic, described how the Serbs of Decan had started to call themselves "Russians" because of Russian influence and the local Russian monks of the monastery.
Ironically, it seems the Serbian state did to Kosova's Slavs what Novi claims the Exarchate did to the Slav Macedonians. They even changed the local toponymy, e.g. Suho grlo, Suho dol, Suha reka etc became Suvo grlo, Suvo dol, Suva reka.
As for Albania, we don't even need to talk. The Bulgarian nature of local Slav toponymy is smth most linguists have reached a consensus over, e.g. the -vec ending as opposed to -vac, like Roskovec, Shishtavec, Manastirec, Gerdec, Pogradec, Pustec etc.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 29, 2009 12:23:19 GMT -5
Also, that list of Slav toponyms in Albania is flawed, since alot of the toponyms aren't really Slavic at all. Examples include Coban, Cesme, Catiste which are Turkish. Livadhi is included in the Albanian vocabulary, and simply means "meadow", and endings like -i or -asi, as in Livadhasi, confirms that Albanians gave those villages their name. I don't see why "Darda" is included there, as it is a perfectly Albanian word, from dardhë, "pear". I don't see why Bukmira or Buzgara are considered Slavic; toponyms in Montenegro and Bosnia with "bukmir" are ironically classified as Vlach. Vila isn't from the Slavic mythological creature, but rather from Latin "villa", much like English "village", and comes in the form of Fila too and is found throughout the country; a Roman age legacy. Prekali is Albanian., from the personal Christian name of Preka, etc.
The list goes on.
False. There are plenty, like Zhuri, Zymi, Dushkaja, Ujmiri, Krojmiri, Kerrligata, Prekazi, Shala, Guri, Anadrini, Makermali, etc. Just need to think before claiming stupid claims.
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Post by ilirdardani on Jun 29, 2009 12:29:36 GMT -5
Tell it like it is Donnie.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 29, 2009 13:01:51 GMT -5
Donnie sounds quite reasonable again and I agree with what he ve posted again.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 29, 2009 13:25:11 GMT -5
"Dasinovac, Demovic" hmm drugs are so popular around here.
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Post by srbobran on Jun 29, 2009 14:00:40 GMT -5
All Albanians have are Albanized Slavic toponyms. Medieval censuses only serve to explain why this is so. I mean, seriously, just about every single reputable historian recognizes that the only reason Albanians form a majority on Kosovo now is because the Serbs left it due to reprisals. You guys filled the void and Albanized our toponyms. You guys claim to have been there since the beginning of time yet there are NO testaments to Albanian culture or presence in the area whatsoever. Everything and anything of cultural or historical worth in Kosovo was built by the Serbs, all the churches, monuments, and castles (with the exception of the stuff the Romans built).
Obilic is certainly not an Albanian toponym and neither is Dasinovac or Demovic. Again, no purely Albanian ones, all Albanized Slavic ones.
As for participation on Kosovo,could you please provide some sources or references to this? While you're at it, provide some actual sources for Milos Obilic being an Albanian?
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