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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 30, 2009 4:55:03 GMT -5
^ Do it yourself!!.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 30, 2009 5:16:12 GMT -5
Novi, give me a fvcking source or I will expose you as a total ignorant in every subforum here.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 30, 2009 5:20:14 GMT -5
^ Good then, l prefer you to expose me as a total ignorant, go on then because it will give me more ammunition to break the Bulgar wall of propaganda ;D
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Post by rusebg on Jun 30, 2009 5:21:39 GMT -5
I will. You betrayed Gyrro, did you noticed that? He had such a trust in you.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 30, 2009 5:45:57 GMT -5
^ no, no, no Ruse, do your research for once instead of settling back and comfortably disproving everything without providing anything!. I want to sit back now and see what you have.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 30, 2009 5:55:38 GMT -5
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 30, 2009 5:58:13 GMT -5
So he is proserbian Russian. Enough with his fake "sources".
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 30, 2009 6:04:59 GMT -5
hmmmmm maybe a Pyrros (TM) search on bulgarian and russian phone catalogs would give a "quantitatively" feeling of this surname! and would end up..... being bulgarian...
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Post by rusebg on Jun 30, 2009 6:10:44 GMT -5
Oh, the linguist has spoken... Shejtani, wait for my post on Vietnamese dialects. Not that I have the slightest idea about them, but I do have the feeling my ignorance matches that of Gyrro on Slavic speeches.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 30, 2009 6:13:02 GMT -5
hmmmmm maybe a Pyrros (TM) search on bulgarian and russian phone catalogs would give a "quantitatively" feeling of this surname! and would end up..... being bulgarian... HA HA LMAO, since in the toponyms field, we didnt find much bulgarian stuff, who knows maybe we find many Bulgarians with the name Selishev!
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Post by rusebg on Jun 30, 2009 6:15:30 GMT -5
Pyrro, I gave you a link. If you can read it, OK, if not, i am waiting for another one proving Selishtev was not Russian. Until then, I don't understand why you laugh as the ultimate idiot.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 30, 2009 6:28:42 GMT -5
Pyrro, I gave you a link. If you can read it, OK, if not, i am waiting for another one proving Selishtev was not Russian. Until then, I don't understand why you laugh as the ultimate idiot. JESUS!! You claim Novi and Highduke as Bulgarians, but you DONT WANT A FINE SCIENTIST WHOSE NAME SOUNDS LIKE 100% BULGARIAN?? WEIRD PPL YOU ARE ;D ;D ;D ;D anywas, rusa, shows us some stats about this name, is it found in bh''''hh'''l''''''h''''g'''''''a'''''''r'''i'''h''''a? PS I read the link, I UNDERSTOOD IT ALL , yet does not include FULL BIOHRAPHY The guy seems registered as Russian in USSR, however nothing is said about ANCESTRY, mother, father, bla bkla bla, all the tools that you guys use when refering to some bulgarian wives of certain SERB kings, etc...
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Post by rusebg on Jun 30, 2009 6:48:50 GMT -5
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 30, 2009 7:02:57 GMT -5
hmmm would they give this job to a NON_BULGARIAN?
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Post by rusebg on Jun 30, 2009 7:41:25 GMT -5
Of course they would. You have never heard of a member of any country's Academy of Science who is not of that nationality? And his views on fyromian dialect are quite different from what Novi copy/pasted from Highduke. Do you want a brief translation?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 30, 2009 7:49:19 GMT -5
^ Ruse you are an absolute dope.
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Post by shejtani on Jun 30, 2009 12:56:10 GMT -5
^ Is the author (Hugo Roth) serbian shejtani? or is the Bulgarian from Russia Selishev Serbian also? There is a Borova in Albania like in Kosovo where my uncle is from. actually, if I remember, your family came in Kosovo during the 1920 and left in 1999 ... ;D
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Post by srbobran on Jun 30, 2009 13:58:16 GMT -5
After scoruing the internet, I haven't found any mention of this so called Zica charter. As for the Banjski charter, I was aware of its existence prior to this but the contents of the charter (the ones that I read) state that it was an endowment of land to the church and a deal between Kings Milutin and Dragutin. Do you have any scanned copies of third hand explanations of these charters or any sources at all that I can read?
Also, a large Vlach presence in Serbia has been noted by several monarchs and historians of the time. You say "Albanian and "Vlach" which in my opinion, is really an underhanded way to make the numbers appear larger than they really were. How many of the houses were Vlachs and how many were Albanians?
Interesting. So you're telling me that there 900 years that passed before any recorded mention of the Albanians (apart from the ones in antiquity you mentioned). Well what the hell happened to them? They didn't just mysteriously disappear than reappear almost a millenia later?
Also, hypothetically, lets say these "Arbanatai" are the ancestors of modern Albanians. As far as I know, they were nowhere near Kosovo and they settled in modern middle-northern Albania.So how does being descended from a tribe that was native a compltely different geographical area strengthen your claim to Kosovo in particular? Or do you now claim all of Illyria as your own?
Also, I'd like to bring up the multitude (almost prevalence) of Slavic toponyms in Albania. IfI'm supposed to believe that the Albanians are native to the region, then I would expect to find Albanian placenames to be predominant, yet they are not. Compare this to Wales, a country that has been under direct English rule and influence for well over 1200 years and yet 99% of all placenames are still of Welsh origin. It just doesn't make any sense.
Personally, I'm not an expert on toponyms (although Zuri does have a meaning in Serbian as well, to rush or to hurry) so I won't get into this anymore.
Well why the hell not? Even some online references to what you're alluding to would be sufficient. Whose gonna take your word for anything you're saying. I mean if it was mainstream stuff you were claiming, I wouldn't go as far as to demand a source but you were making some pretty outrageous claims that demand historical backup. As far as I'm concerned it could be a bunch of BS you pulled straight out of your ass.
You think I'm the stupid one, well look whose dumb enough to think his opponent's gonna believe everything he says with no proof to back it up. Evidently, you're the stupid one, my good chum.
Great, so his name started with the letter "k" and not the letter "o". Awesome. Now, apart from some baseless, historically unsound fringe theories, tell, what evidence do you have to suggest that he was an Albanian? Same thing with the Jugovic brothers? The information I have found list Jug Bogdan as a direct descendant of the House of Nemanjic (his historical name was Vratko Nemanjic), his mother was Princess Milica and his father was a certain zhupan Vratislav.
The Battle of Kosovo is a very uncertain event and no, I won't take the words of Serbian mythology on it, I recognize it is very exaggerated. But there were Ottoman and contemporary sources on the battle and there some established facts. I simply haven't seen the evidence to support claims that the Serbian Army wasn't Serbian at all (keeping in mind that ALL medieval armies used some mercenaries).
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 1, 2009 2:39:54 GMT -5
Zuri? Of course its Serbian! Stani Stani Ibar Vodo... Kuda Zuris tako?
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jul 1, 2009 7:48:20 GMT -5
Zhuri comes from shur, where 'sh' has become 'zh' much like Lesh became Lezhe in Albania. The meaning is that of fine sand, probably found in the area, which is also the meaning ofthis village's name.
The 900 year gap of absence from contemporary chronicles is a weak argumentum ex silentio. There is a similiar absence of the Vlachs in contemporary documents, yet nobody disputes them as descendants of locals who adopted Vulgar Latin as their speech.
As for the Arbanitai/Albanoi; sure, they were just one tribe, but this does not mean they were our only Illyrian ancestors. Occasionally, one tribe is a little dominating and the term for that tribe might in time become the name for a whole confederation of tribes or tribes which are linguistically and culturally akin. Onomastic studies show that the phonetic evolution or shifts of ancient toponyms that are in accordance with the phonetic laws of Albanian, transcend the narrow refugium of the Albanoi and includes much of ancient Dardania, like Naissus to Nish, Scupi to Shkupi (as opposed to Skopje), Scardus mons to Shar (a Slavic intermediary would've given 'skr' as opposed to 'sh'). Furthermore, the dense presence and survival of ancient toponymy in this region, as opposed to Vojvodina for example, suggest this ancient Roman province was more hard digested than the rest of the lands conquored by the invading Slavs.
You also mentioned the "prevalence" of Slavic toponymy in Albania. That is false. There is no prevalence of Slavic toponymy, I do not know where you got that from (highdyke maybe), but there is a similiar strong presence of Slavic toponymy in Romania and there was until 1935 in Greece too. They do not prove anything, other than the fact that at some point, Slav invaders lived in these lands and were eventually either absorbed or displaced. More important is to study the ancient pre-Slavic toponymy and their modern counterpart, in order to see whether there is a Slavic intermediary (in which case one might conclude you Slavs were here before us Albanians) or whether the evolution is in accordance with the phonetic rules of Albanian, in which case one can conclude that we inhabited these lands before you.
In this regard, Albanian wins. Ancient toponyms like Drinus, Mathis, Isamnus, Avlon, Scodra, Barbanna, Lissus and so on, are in total accordance with Albanian pgonetic rules and there is no Slavic intermediary. Such a conclusion is made possible by comparing the evolution of toponymy to the evolution of Latin loan words in Albanian, where common changes are observed such as 's' becomes 'sh', (Scodra becomes Shkodra, like shkëmb meaning 'rock' from scamnum), 'i' becomes 'e' (like in Lesh from Lissus, just like meshë, meaning 'mass', from missal), 'mn' is assimilated into 'm' (like Ishmi from Isamnus, much like gjum, meaning sleep, from somnus), the elimination of the first vowel (Avlon becomes Vlorë, much like mik, meaning friend, from amicus; there is also a rhotacization present here, a characteristic of the Tosk dialect) and so on. Not to mention some of these even have obvious meanings in Albanian, like river Mati from ancient Mathis, from the word mat, meaning river-bank, cognates to an Irish word for sand.
This confirms continuity. But I guess you've been to busy believing we're newcomers from Caucasus to even conduct a sincere study of your own in search of a scientific truth.
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