Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 23, 2009 7:55:22 GMT -5
But its quite interesting man, and the other guys @ SF might find it useful.
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Post by rusebg on Nov 23, 2009 18:12:37 GMT -5
You pair of wankers got each other by the balls and licked prioperly each other? Gays...never thought that of serbs. But may be a cangaroo kick changes a person's sexual orientation. Not that it matters with Pyrro. He is a fag.got by nature. Novi is just a stupid twat.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 23, 2009 18:40:51 GMT -5
^ c'mon mate take it alittle easy, no need to use fowl language here. Your not looking convincing to readers who read our debates.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 23, 2009 22:05:04 GMT -5
Ioan read again: "The Serbs are such a large nation that all Slavs came from them" Bavarian geographer Jordanes. Gothic Chronicles 6th Century A.D I wanna see the exact quote, with a link.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 23, 2009 22:17:56 GMT -5
jordanes mentions venedis, sclavenes and antes, not serbs or serfs.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 23, 2009 22:26:57 GMT -5
The Slavs make their first appearance in historical records from the end of Late Antiquity, in the early 6th century. Byzantine historiographers under Justinian I (527-565), such as Procopius of Caesarea, Jordanes and Theophylact Simocatta describe tribes invading the Danubian provinces of the Eastern Empire, emerging from the area of the Carpathian Mountains, the lower Danube and the Black Sea. Jordanes mentions that the Venets sub-divided into three groups: the Venets, the Ants and the Sklavens (Sclovenes, Sklavinoi), collectively called Spores. The Byzantine term Sklavinoi was loaned as Saqaliba by mediaval Arab historiographers. en.allexperts.com/e/s/sl/slavic_peoples.htmagain no mention of serbs, novi please do not manipulate the sources. u have proven again that the serbs love manifacturing history, as it is proven whem they created the macedonian history.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 23, 2009 22:47:24 GMT -5
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 23, 2009 23:00:13 GMT -5
Serbs have existed on the territory of Vardar Macedonia/today's Republic of Macedonia for about the last fourteen centuries. They are mentioned in the historical records as an ethnic group living around the river Vardar, later to be resettled in Asia Minor. While remains of these Serbs probably left socio-cultural and anthropological traces in the lands of geographic Macedonia which alternated between Byzantine and Bulgarian domination, it may be assumed they slowly disappeared in the mass of local Slavs, which intermingled with Bulgars. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_of_Macedonia
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 23, 2009 23:06:50 GMT -5
During the Balkan Wars (1912-1913) Serbia liberated all of the southern Serbs by occupying Vardar Macedonia, much at the grievances of well-structured exponents of the Greater Bulgarian idea present among native inhabitants of Macedonia. The period from 1913-1914 is a period of turmoil and the central government in Belgrade implemented plenty of unpopular measures, most of which were found to be oppressive to the Bulgarian majority in Vardar Macedonia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_of_Macedonia
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 24, 2009 3:42:59 GMT -5
You pair of wankers got each other by the balls and licked prioperly each other? Gays...never thought that of serbs. But may be a cangaroo kick changes a person's sexual orientation. Not that it matters with Pyrro. He is a f*g.got by nature. Novi is just a stupid twat. Way to go Mr Senior Moderator! Keep up the good work. You never had the slightest success to compose a semi-decent argument, but i see you did a lot of practicing at swearing! Nobody expected more from you. Lets remember who is who again once more ;D After all this madness here with our bulgarian friends i thought it would be cool to end officially the conflict with an outline of the character of each of the protagonists: Sorted in ascending order of probability of survival. ATAN The fearless soldier. A real mad dog. Feels no pain. Has no feelings. Has no logic. Acts like he is on drugs most of the time. In case of a defeat, he instantly erases it from his memory and urges forward bravely for the next defeat. Sticks to smth he thinks he believes or smth that he thinks that he is good at, and holds on to it, completely ignoring the actual reality around him. Barks and shouts at the enemy even when he is wounded. Typical asian primitive warrior. Perfect low rate trooper. In case of real life war conflict, he would serve in the front line, he would die heroically in the first days, his lieutenants would laugh and no one would cry. IOAN. The methodical propagandist. He has feelings but has no logic. He loves to be respected. Does not stand discomfort. After each defeat, having no means to evolve, he just regathers strengths only to repeat the same mistakes the next time. He would serve best as press representative of his government. His methods of presenting his propaganda is based on the repetitiveness theory of the Germans in WWI, WWII and the USA in our days. In a real life war conflict he would be captured, jailed and then he would commit suicide, not standing his doom. RUSEBG The politician. Of average intelligence, yet smart enough to know when to act, and what to do. Cleverly avoids battles sure to lose. Stalls the enemy with his weak defense, without giving out too much of his energy. In a real life war conflict he would eventually collaborate with his enemies, gaining positions and privileges and would live till his natural death. (now back to my shelter ;D!)
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 24, 2009 6:04:54 GMT -5
Pyrro, Ioan wants me to show him a link about the name sporoi which was an obvious corruption of the name srbi.
Pyrro, l have a source which will explain to him, its from H. H. Howorth, first l will send you a pm and l want you to read it before l show Ioan this ;D
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 24, 2009 6:09:59 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 24, 2009 6:30:18 GMT -5
^ Dobrowski ;D.....look him up ;D
iranian my butt, serbs are not iranian and besides l don't want to have any connection with those people ;D
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 24, 2009 8:04:52 GMT -5
history doesnt care about our wills, its based on facts. You may not like the idea that Serbs were Iranians, but there is first hand sources that attest it (for example Plinii). You may not like the idea that in the serbs there is avaric blood, but it is a fact. serbs are as mixed as bulgarians. actually all balkanic people are heavily mixed... first the preslavic people - all of us have their genes, then the slavs (whose genes are in the greeks, the romanians and the albanians), hunnic, avar, bulgar, celtic blood. even latin blood. serbs are far from the purest slavs.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 24, 2009 8:46:25 GMT -5
"all of us have their genes, then the slavs (whose genes are in the greeks"
Are you insane? Where do you base that upon?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 24, 2009 9:37:51 GMT -5
While en route to the Holy Land in 732, Willibald "reached the city of Monemvasia, in the land of Slavinia". This particular passage from the Vita Willibaldi is interpreted as an indication of a Slavic presence in the hinterland of the Peloponnese. Constantine Porphyrogenitus wrote during the 10th century that "the entire country [of the Peloponnese] was Slavonized".[15] According to the The Life of Methodius, the inhabitants of Thessaloniki are said to "speak pure Slavonic". Max Vasmer, a prominent linguist and Indo-Europeanist, complements late medieval historical accounts by listing 429 Slavic toponyms from the Peloponnese. When the Byzantines were not fighting in their eastern territories, they were able to slowly regain imperial control. This was achieved through its theme system, referring to an administrative province on which an army corps was centered, under the control of a Strategos (governor). It aimed to assimilate the Slavs into the Byzantine socio-economic sphere. The first Balkan theme created was that in Thrace, in 680 AD. By 695, a second theme, "Hellas", was established. Its location was probably in eastern central Greece. Subduing the Slavs in these themes was simply a matter of accommodating the needs of the Slavic elites and providing them with incentives for their inclusion into the imperial administration. However, Slavs elsewhere were far more difficult to subdue. It was not until 100 years later that a third theme would be established. In 782-84, the eunuch general Staurakios campaigned from Thessaloniki, south to Thessaly and into the Peloponnese. He captured many Slavs, moving them elsewhere especially Anatolia (these Slavs were dubbed Slavesians.[10] Although he may have made some defeated Slav tribes pay homage, it is unlikely he subdued all of them. The theme of Macedonia was created sometime between 790 and 802. This theme was centered on Adrianople (i.e. east of the actual geographic entity). In 805, the theme of Peloponnesus was created. However, some local Slavic tribes Milings and Ezerites continued to revolt apparently angered by loss of lands and the threat of losing their independence.[10] They were to remain independent until Ottoman times. From the 800s, new themes continued to arise, although many were small and were carved out of original, larger themes. New themes in the 9th century included those of Thessaloniki and Dyrrachium. From these themes, Byzantine laws and culture flowed into the interior. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_SlavsAbove shows that there was big slavic influence in the heart of Greece. Maybe the old authors exagggerated the inpact of the slavs on the greeks, but the fact that in the heart of greece there were slavic tribes till ottoman times could give us a hint.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 24, 2009 10:07:43 GMT -5
What the article writes is probably true. In Peloponese, even the Ancient Olympia was named "Serviana" up until 14th century. However this has no application when asking the composition of DNA of modern greeks. I really dont know much about Peloponese, Makedonia. I know enough about Epiros, and i know exactly where the Slavs lived, who they were, and where they went.
I cannot believe that the peaceful and modest greek populations of mainland Greece would prevail over their conquerors (Slavs).
That said, in Epiros, we had: 1) Vlah speakers - loads of them. They kept their unwritten Vlah-Latin language, even though they were never the ruling cast. 2) Albo speakers - loads of them in Thesprotia. (now not anymore...) 3) Greek speakers - loads of them (me being one). Greek with lots of ancient words, but with a rather limited vocabulary, and the complete lack of medieval literature. Only Crete produced such Greek literature back then.
So?? How come, we never had SLAV speakers? I know the answer, i just pose the question, in order for you to do some questioning.
Also, and that is a big question for me as well, how come, NO ONE from us, the modern epirots, never had a clue about the old toponyms? Were they greek? latin? albanian? WTF?
What i mean, is that the Greek character in Epiros, was never really endorsed by anyone. Byzantium apparently didn't give a rats ass, otherwise they wouldn't leave the army to the mercenaries and keep the Greeks out. Turks apparently didn't give a rats ass as well. kept the slavic toponyms, and made no effort to culture our own greek civilization.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 24, 2009 10:11:37 GMT -5
You probably had, but they were assimilated. There were though lots of records indicating that slavs lived in greece (even southern part) till they were assimilated. your question was about greece as a whole not epir. epirus have always been famous as the place inhabited mainly by Greeks and Albanians.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 24, 2009 10:13:25 GMT -5
as for the slavs being the conquerors, read the link first and u ll get that it was mainly peaceful conquest that later led to the fusion of slavs and preslavic balkan people (including the greeks).
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 24, 2009 10:14:36 GMT -5
Ioan, believe me, it does not make sense... There is smthing we all are missing.
If Slavs were majority, giving founding new cities and villages, etc... then how did they get assimilated? If they were a minority how did they seem to fully prevail on the land?
My take is that, Slavs left for the north, after the turkish occupation. The similarity of toponyms in Thessaly, Epiros with Srpska Krajina attest to that.
Or some other events might have had taken place, (with which we all here seem to never deal with) such as: earthquakes, diseases, droughts, etc...
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