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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 4:00:40 GMT -5
^ Paisiy was a Bulgarin, unless you have info for me which shows otherwise?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 4:08:28 GMT -5
Uou, so now you say fyromians are Bulgarians. Thank you.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 4:28:48 GMT -5
^ lmao, very funny Ioan
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 5:06:09 GMT -5
Since the genetics between western bulgarians/south serbs/slavomakedonians are identical (and IMO western bulgarians are closer to Serbs than the slavomakedonians (mainly due to the albo factor), although i must travel in Skoplje more), the distinction is clearly POLITICAL. And today, we swap political parties according to our interests and beliefs, the same happened back then.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 5:14:24 GMT -5
Uou, so now you say fyromians are Bulgarians. Thank you. Are you fucking nuts?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 5:42:05 GMT -5
^ Don't worry about it brate, l could show Ioan some stuff, l'll let him have his enjoyment on this.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 6:31:23 GMT -5
Since the genetics between western bulgarians/south serbs/slavomakedonians are identical (and IMO western bulgarians are closer to Serbs than the slavomakedonians (mainly due to the albo factor), although i must travel in Skoplje more), the distinction is clearly POLITICAL. And today, we swap political parties according to our interests and beliefs, the same happened back then. Yes because all are (or used to be) Bulgarians.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 6:33:10 GMT -5
^ Don't worry about it brate, l could show Ioan some stuff, l'll let him have his enjoyment on this. Maybe because u can not explain to me REASONABLY how a fyromian accepted himself as Bulgarian 100 yars before the Exarchate and how this fyromian was influenced by a Serb and that influence turned the fyromian into the biggest Bulgarian.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 6:44:24 GMT -5
Since the genetics between western bulgarians/south serbs/slavomakedonians are identical (and IMO western bulgarians are closer to Serbs than the slavomakedonians (mainly due to the albo factor), although i must travel in Skoplje more), the distinction is clearly POLITICAL. And today, we swap political parties according to our interests and beliefs, the same happened back then. Yes because all are (or used to be) Bulgarians. they were either Serbs or unidentified slavs, like the majority of Bulgarians, so in that regard you are right, the majority of bulgarians are quite similar with their 25,000,000 yugoslav brothers on their left as we look at the map.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 6:54:44 GMT -5
they were either Serbs or unidentified slavs, like the majority of Bulgarians, so in that regard you are right, the majority of bulgarians are quite similar with their 25,000,000 yugoslav brothers on their left as we look at the map. I agree we are similar with the Serbs. However saying that some slavs were serbs is just wrong because as we know serbs were Iranians from caucasus so to say that a slav equals a serb is totally wrong and contradicts Roman and Byzantine sources. Also yes we (all Bulgarians, fyromians, torlaks) descend from slavs from the Bulgarian (Southeastern) slavic linguistic group, mixed with Bulgars and Thracians.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jan 7, 2010 8:30:20 GMT -5
they were either Serbs or unidentified slavs, like the majority of Bulgarians, so in that regard you are right, the majority of bulgarians are quite similar with their 25,000,000 yugoslav brothers on their left as we look at the map. I agree we are similar with the Serbs. However saying that some slavs were serbs is just wrong because as we know serbs were Iranians from caucasus so to say that a slav equals a serb is totally wrong and contradicts Roman and Byzantine sources. Also yes we (all Bulgarians, fyromians, torlaks) descend from slavs from the Bulgarian (Southeastern) slavic linguistic group, mixed with Bulgars and Thracians. Mind you it's just one origin theory. I do personally agree with it, but you could more accurately say "proto-"Serbs were Iranic/Sarmatians. The proto-Polish or even proto-slavs also have Sarmatian influence. In some sense I'd imagine that misc slavs would have more afinity with Serbs as they were already slavic rather than say an afinity with Bulgars, Thracians or native Balkanites who contributed to Bulgarian ethnogenesis. I'm talking about the early medieval period here but definitely Bulgarians have a strong & you would think dominant slavic ethnogenesis based particularly on language.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 8:57:30 GMT -5
Also yes we (all Bulgarians, fyromians, torlaks) descend from slavs from the Bulgarian (Southeastern) slavic linguistic group, mixed with Bulgars and Thracians. 100% wrong.... Torlaks/slavomakedonians have zero bulgar influence, for sure.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 9:33:25 GMT -5
Really? I do not think so.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 9:33:25 GMT -5
I'm talking about the early medieval period here but definitely Bulgarians have a strong & you would think dominant slavic ethnogenesis based particularly on language. The tools (books) for this ethnogenesis were created in Kragujevac, by brother Serbs who were preparing the spiritual ground upon which the bulgarian rebels would revolt against Turks.... only to find out, that Turkish and Bulgarian leadership were actually one in the same.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 9:35:00 GMT -5
Really? I do not think so. you "dont think so" about a lot of things, why this one should be any special at all? Ioan, its getting boring and God ... too old...
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 9:56:20 GMT -5
google Kuber.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 10:14:48 GMT -5
what did he do? Did he have a baby with every 2nd slav woman in the said region? Is there any signs of Asian/Turkic culture in south serbia/vardar? I DO NOT THINK SO ;D
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 7, 2010 10:28:31 GMT -5
I think Arsenije has commented on this topic before, particularly about Eastern Serbs. If I’m not mistaken his statements were basically saying that Eastern Serbs resemble Bulgarians more so than they resemble Western Serbs. If he chooses to elaborate on this topic a bit more, I’m sure we can all learn something.
Arsenije, yes you are right. It is only one of the theories, but it does seem that this is the theory that is most emphasized by contemporary scholars.
I think that the use of the term ‘proto’ would more accurately be used to designate a time period, rather than an ethnic difference. I mean, the proto-Serbs, or proto-Poles, or proto-Bulgars were all those people that identified as such prior to the formation of the respective states. All of these ‘proto’ tribes lived in close proximity to Slavs and had contact with them to some extent or another, and I think they were already partly mixed with Slavs before they formed their respective states. For example, from what I’ve read about the Ancient Bulgars and Old Great Bulgaria, it seems that the large scale of assimilating Slavs occurred in the areas of Old Great Bulgaria which were also partly populated by the Antae Slavic tribes. I do believe that the Bulgars assimilated some of the Balkan Slavs, however, by the 7th c. the majority of the Balkan Slavs on the territories of Moesia, Thrace, and Macedonia had migrated West toward Slovenia. Furthermore, during the time of the First Bulgarian Empire, there were 3 large waves of Slavic tribe deportations from all over the empire.
This is something that I don’t get. Why do people keep assuming that by the 7th c. there was a separate Thracian ethnic group!? From what I’ve read, the Thracian ethnic element had been heavily diluted between the years 0AD-600AD, and whatever Thracians remained as an independent ethnicity were already Slavicized by the 7th c.
Gyrrooo, my man, don’t you get tired of making ignorant statements such as this!? First of all, no one can talk about events that occurred more than 1000 years ago with 100% certainty. This 100% wrong part alone shows how little you actually know.
And Brailsford, a source that your buddy boy Novi has quoted in the past, has acknowledged that there is indeed a Bulgar ethnic influence in Macedonians just like there is one in Bulgarians.
Furthermore, you fail to understand that both the First Bulgarian Empire and the Second Bulgarian Empire were multi-ethnic entities. The fact that there were Slav subjects, doesn’t mean that these Slavs were Serbs. It is true that initially the various ethnicities within the First Bulgarian Empire were easier to distinguish from one another, however, they gradually blended into one single ethnic group; and yes, this includes Macedonia.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 10:30:08 GMT -5
alright i did google him (to your dismay again) here we go: english text: pic: Its written in Greek. english supposed trans: this is BS, here is the correct translation: so? HOW COME SERMISANOI (=people from sermion=SREM) and Bulgars were mixed? since they clearly are DIFFERENTIATED in the above inscription?
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 7, 2010 10:32:05 GMT -5
Gyrrro, your statements really do show how little you know.
And Kuber.. Kuber settled in Macedonia with nearly 100,000 Bulgars. He also had subjects of other ethnicities.
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