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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Aug 18, 2010 18:46:17 GMT -5
www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/newsbriefs/setimes/newsbriefs/2010/08/17/nb-08BiH's Spiric says new political process beginning in RS17/08/2010 PODGORICA, Montenegro -- Bosnia and Herzegovina's (BiH) Prime Minister Nikola Spiric said Monday (August 16th) that a new political process is beginning in Republika Srpska (RS) now that the International Court of Justice (ICJ) has ruled in favour of Kosovo's independence. In an interview with the Podgorica-based daily Dan, Spiric said that if the UN General Assembly also confirms Kosovo's independence, this would open the path for RS's independence. He added that developments in BiH's smaller entity will have impact on the overall situation in the Balkans. Spiric stressed RS wants to exist within the frameworks of the Dayton Peace Agreement, but would oppose to the establishment of a unitary state. (RTRS, Radio Free Europe - 16/08/10)
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 19, 2010 3:04:54 GMT -5
Give it a few years and RS will also end up unilaterially declare it's independence from BIH. It will happen because Kosovo was allowed to seperate from Serbia and 2nd, the ICJ acknowledges Kosovo's UDI as legal and has opened it's doors for RS and all other regions from doing the same thing as what Kosovo did. If BIH recognises Kosovo's independence, RS will the same day Unilaterally declare it's independence from BIH but because Serbs and RS has a veto, it will veto BIH from recognising Kosovo's UDI.
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CiKoLa
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Gotovina Heroj!
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Post by CiKoLa on Aug 19, 2010 4:13:49 GMT -5
^^ the serbs are too weak politically to even attempt this. The fall out would be huge! NATO would pounce, the international community would isolate the rs and it would crumble under economic sanctions.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 19, 2010 8:06:32 GMT -5
^^ the serbs are too weak politically to even attempt this. The fall out would be huge! NATO would pounce, the international community would isolate the rs and it would crumble under economic sanctions. You are so naive Pickola, and also a hypocrite. If Kosovo can seperate from Serbia and declare a UDI, RS should have the same rights and according to the ICJ's verdict, there is nothing stopping RS from doing the same thing which Kosovo did two years ago. Also this so called NATO, if they were seriously going to pounce, the international community to isolate a nation, why they didn't they do anything about Russia sending it's troops into South Oseatia and Abhkazia and why did Russia and a few other nations simply recognise these two regions as independent states and NATO did nothing about it? All of this seems to be a double standard for everything. The Dayton Peace Accord is obsolete for two specific reasons, one of them being is both Muslims and Croats seem to discard part of the Dayton Agreement, choose not to follow it but if RS were to seperate from BIH it would be a violation of the Dayton Peace Accord but both Muslims and Croats are demanding that RS be abolished, the 2nd reason is that ICJ's verdict clearly makes it legal for any region to declare it's independence when or where it feels like it. 1244 UNSC Resolution clearly defines Serbian territorial integrity and sovereignty, signed by all parties, and the same with Dayton guarenteeing BIH's territorial integrity and sovereignty but it seems Albanians violated 1244 and the USA and NATO violated 1244 aswell. So enlight of all that has happened, the Dayton Peace Accord is now obsolete and the ICJ's verdict hammered the last nail to the coffin. So i wouldn't be suprised now that RS declares it's independence. With both Russia and China as permanent UNSC members with VETO powers, they will definently veto international sanctions and isolations.
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MiG
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Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Aug 19, 2010 11:38:27 GMT -5
Very true, I agree. Double Standard is a fact of life in elite geo-political circles, though.
You're comparing Russia and R. Srpska? First off, the Geographic difference/location is alone a reason why.
The UNSC isn't all that powerful. Whoever proposes the sanctions, and doesn't get through the UNSC twice, then they can overrule the UNSC decision by gaining a vote of plurality from the UNGA.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Aug 20, 2010 0:42:44 GMT -5
If Kosovo can separate from Serbia and declare a UDI, RS should have the same rights.
You are glossing over one very important fact. Kosovo was a victim of Serbian Genocide and therefore had a right to self determination. While the 'RS' was a perpetrator of Genocide in Srebrenica (worst act of Genocide since WW2) and does not have any right to leave BiH.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 20, 2010 4:34:25 GMT -5
So your saying that the Serbs committed genocide and ethnic cleansing to their own people and as a result of this, 200,000 Serbs are now left without homes, have been kicked out of homes and forced out of Kosovo by the Yugoslav Army? And also several thousands of Serbian civilians have gone missing, were killed and slaughtered by the Yugoslav Army and the KLA all this time was protecting the Serbs all this time?
Really? So your saying that Bratunac in which as a result of more then 3,000 Serbs killed by Naser Oric's forces was not genocide at all??
The Serbs that were kicked out of their homes, killed, massacre'd, slaughtered, had their homes burnt, raped and been tortured by Muslim and Croat forces is not genocide?? So Croatians and Bosnians didn't even kill a single civilian and that no Serbian civilians suffered in the war? Is that what your saying Pickola?
Also according to your logic, Croatia during WW2 committed many acts of genocide and one of them is Jasenovac in which resulted in over 650,000 Serbs, Jews and Gypsies slaughtered and tortured in Jasenovac, the biggest concentration camp administered by the Ustashe and Fascists in Yugoslavia, so by that logic, the Serbian part of Krajina had the right to seperate from Croatia and a right to self determination.
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Post by andromeda on Aug 21, 2010 21:59:35 GMT -5
So your saying that the Serbs committed genocide and ethnic cleansing to their own people and as a result of this, 200,000 Serbs are now left without homes, have been kicked out of homes and forced out of Kosovo by the Yugoslav Army? And also several thousands of Serbian civilians have gone missing, were killed and slaughtered by the Yugoslav Army and the KLA all this time was protecting the Serbs all this time? Really? So your saying that Bratunac in which as a result of more then 3,000 Serbs killed by Naser Oric's forces was not genocide at all?? The Serbs that were kicked out of their homes, killed, massacre'd, slaughtered, had their homes burnt, raped and been tortured by Muslim and Croat forces is not genocide?? So Croatians and Bosnians didn't even kill a single civilian and that no Serbian civilians suffered in the war? Is that what your saying Pickola? Also according to your logic, Croatia during WW2 committed many acts of genocide and one of them is Jasenovac in which resulted in over 650,000 Serbs, Jews and Gypsies slaughtered and tortured in Jasenovac, the biggest concentration camp administered by the Ustashe and Fascists in Yugoslavia, so by that logic, the Serbian part of Krajina had the right to seperate from Croatia and a right to self determination. Someone should really define 'genocide.' Its a powerful term and meant to incite a morally deplorable reaction, especially in these 'Balkan debates.' Ethnic cleansing seems to be a more accurate term relative to what area and population is being referenced. If genocide indeed means the whole sale extermination of a whole subset of species with a particular genetic marker then it would seem applicable. 'Ethnocide' would be closer to accurate as relates to the Balkan Wars although I don't see any evidence to suggest that either side wanted the other completely eliminated from the face of the planet rather than relocated or 'cleansed' from a certain area even if by any means necessary. Stanko's comparison between the Bosnian Serb Republic and Kosovo are very interesting and a lot of parallels seem to be present except that treatment towards both are different from the outside world. However, Stanko's comparison with the Ustasha WW2 regime in Croatia and the so-called "Independent State of Croatia' and the current states or mini-states seems rather misleading. My primary objection would be that the same political body of power controls the modern states/mini states as they did in the war 15-20 years ago. In the case of WW2 Croatia and post WW2 Croatia , the same political organization did/do not control the modern country. Stanko's argument on these grounds would hold more water if the same Ustasha party/parties/organizations still controlled the Croatian state into modern times, or at least , if these organizations were still legal in the state.
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Post by andromeda on Aug 21, 2010 22:09:25 GMT -5
I agree with this. ( It might surprise you that I'm Croatian) However , the key words here are Serbian part(s). But I'm willing to extend the logic to its fullest conclusion. I would argue that even within those Serbian parts would exist quite a bit of Croatian parts ( about 40% of the whole of what the RSK government claimed as land) and that those Croatian parts would be able to separate from the RSK , without the threat of violence. I would extend the logic even down to the smallest village where a Croatian or Serb farmer would be able to separate their land from whatever state they wished. If you think about it , this is the conclusion we ultimately come to. Using this line of reasoning we see that both Serbian and Croatian state claims fail. The logic would have to stand with the individuals ( Serb , Croat , or other) in order to valid for all.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 22, 2010 1:48:29 GMT -5
I completely agree with this statement and yes genocide is a very strong word, it's meaning is so strong that it creates alot of argument, bring in alot of arguments, incites alot of moral deplorable reaction and also the term genocide that has been used by Bosnian Muslims, Albanian and to an extent from the Croatian side, their intrepretation of the word and the meaning of genocide is very misleading.
One example is the Yugoslav Army and the Serbian Police has been fighting the KLA in Kosovo through out 98-99 and also through out the 90's by the Serbian Police. The Yugoslav Army and the Serbian Army had no intentions of attacking Albanian civilians, there intentions were only to eliminate terrorist activities, raid on criminals and arrest those responsible for the actions of the KLA and the creation of KLA.
The KLA itself was formed inorder to create an independent Kosovo and for that to succeed, they had to eliminate an ethnic group of Serbs and other Non Albanians, their objective was for an ethnically Albanian pure Kosovo state, they also organised many hit and run attacks on the Serbian Police, attacked civilians, kidnapping, rape, burning down houses and they used fear inorder to eliminate an ethnic group out of Kosovo.
The Yugoslav Army and Serbian Police objective was to crush the KLA and to stop terrorism and seperatism in it's spot. But according to Cikola, Genocide has been committed by the Serbian Police and the Yugoslav Army.
How can Genocide have even occured in Kosovo if there were less than fewer thousands civilians tha have been killed and died through out the Kosovo war. Many of these listed are Serbs that were persecutted and killed by the very same KLA that also attacked Albanians, those that did not want to join the KLA and then they claimed that these crimes were committed by the Serbian Police and the Yugoslav Army in Kosovo.
In Kosovo, Ethnic cleansing occured in a very large scale, not only through out the Kosovo war 98-99 but through out it's time during Yugoslav's existence in which Serbs were decreasing in large numbers due to imtimidation, murders, rape, home invasion and being forced out of their homes inorder to make ways for Albanians.
Double standards at it's place, many conflicts and wars are very similiar, if not, they are the same to an very large extent, but they are all being treated from outside the world and one says that Kosovo has the rights to declare independence because it is a unique case but what makes it so unique, people are jumping and yelling out it is a unique case an why but none have seem to have provided any facts and evidents as to why it is so unique.
That would be fine except that the today's government, government officials and political organizations in both Serbia and RS are also different and the predecessor government's and political organizations are either disbandoned, arrested and are in the hague, or do not have any power in any political organisations anymore but the Muslims seem to be jumping the bandwagon wheel that the RS must be abolished because of Srebrenica, and Kosovo must be independent because of Milosevic and blah blah.
Because of this and Cikola also jumping the bandwagon, if his logic applies to one side, it must apply to the rest aswell.
And yes, it happened 15-20 years and Jasenovac and the Ustashe crimes occured 60-70 years ago. The years are irrelevent, but what is relevent is that these crimes occured and using Cikola's logic about RS, in that case, Croatia should never had been independent because an independent Croatia was created through major attrocities, genocide and ethnic cleansing.
So if something is to be applied on that side, the same should applie to the other side or to all.
what i am trying to say is you cannot have it both ways, it's either option number one or option number two.
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Post by andromeda on Aug 23, 2010 12:09:30 GMT -5
Then why are you subscribing to the same definition in your own arguments? If anything , you are confirming the validity of misleading terms. Clearly there are vested interests in that region from states far more powerful than Serbia, Kosovo, and Albania. The double standard is fairly obvious but whoever thought that any of these states value logical consistency? Now I like to avoid collective generalizations but for the sake of argument it would seem a Bosnian Serb and a Kosovar Albanian would have quite a bit in common given their geopolitical positioning. And since you prefer to avoid double standards , would you accept Kosovo's independence from Serbia if the Serb inhabited part of Bosnia gained its independence? Would you say that since Germany was still recognized as a legal state after WW2 that it is result of Nazi activity? As I recall the so-called 'Independent State of Croatia' was completely disbanded and the resulting state was a sub-state within a state ( Yugoslavia) and that sub-state's borders were reduced back, more or less , to its pre-war boundries , i.e. before Ustasha control. In Bosnia the sub-state within a state created in the war i.e. the Serb Republic within Bosnia still exists legally even after the conclusion of the war. The same wartime organizations may not control the entity but they are not completely weeded out nor are they illegal by any means as any Ustasha or Nazi political organization would be immediately shut down in Croatia and Germany respectively. I believe this was the difference attempting to be pointed out. However, I personally do not agree with the activities of any of these states be them Croatian , Bosnian Serb , Bosnian , Albanian , etc , and I believe each played a role in increasing human suffering.
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Post by jonleka on Aug 23, 2010 23:52:18 GMT -5
Stanko likes to talk out of his ass, reading your comments makes you think Albanians were the aggressors which isn't true. KLA was formed in the beginning by voluntaries just to protect their own villages from Serbian police but grew as time went. Some facts KLA soldiers were never allowed by their generals to enter any city, were not allowed to attack civilians except collaborators which in this case were Albanians.
Bring legitimate sources next time you say KLA burned villages and killed civilians (not propaganda).
Last on the Topic you can't compare RS with Kosova because Kosova for the last hundred years was entity on its own even had a status in Yogo. RS was always part of Bosnia.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 24, 2010 0:46:20 GMT -5
That would only be true if my mouth was in my arse but its on my face so i am talking with my mouth that is located on my face below my nose. It really shows how uneducated Albanians really are and the Albanian education system has failed them. Now back to the topic and i want to ask you a question in regards to your post which i quoted first. What were the KLA protecting themselves of from the police? Last time i read is that Police and Law Enforcement officers are present to prevent crimes, organised crimes and to strictly enforce law and order and keeping all citizens safe and bringing the peace. So what were the Albanians KLA people protecting themselves of? You must be confusing the KLA Terrorists and Kosovo with another organisation and with another region and country? illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=srbijaserbia&action=display&thread=30918 legitimate sources and all in graphics and in videos, these are the resources available to all Albanians and to anyone who wishes to debate about the crimes committed by the KLA and the Albanians in Kosovo. All legitimate sources and videos never lie. Kosovo is part of Serbia and has always been part of Serbia since the beginning and way long before the Albanians arrived in the Balkans. Kosovo only recently became a entity in which the Kosovo province was created through the 1972 Yugoslav constitution but it still reafirmed Kosovo as part of Serbia and even in the Yugoslav constitution. So is Kosovo. I have to agree with you that RS is different from Kosovo because though out many centuries, Bosnia was also a Serbian Kingdom in which through out it's many periods of existance and even before the Ottoman Empire, Bosnia was ruled by many Serbian Kings, there was more then one Serbian king and more then one dynasties, look at Raska, Duklja, Travunia, Zahumlje and many other kingdoms through out it's time in the Balkans. So RS has legitimate rights to independence if it desires or if it wishes to join Serbia just as much as the Croatian part of BIH, mainly Hercegovina has as much legitimate rights to seperate and to join Croatia. Kosovo on the other hand doesn't as you can see all of it's historical monuments, churches, monasteries and all other historical evidents which shows large traces of Serbian settlers, there is nothing in Kosovo or anything that can show any traces of Albanian history and historical claims to Kosovo.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 24, 2010 1:04:24 GMT -5
I confirmed the misleading term of the word Genocide on behalf of Albanians and Bosnians because of what they are claiming as genocide is not genocide at all. The Yugoslav Army and the Serbian Police fighting the KLA terrorist groups is considered genocide according to Cikola and Drena. The word Genocide has been thrown out alot, if anything that should be considered as Genocide, the Operation Oluja should be considered as Genocide because it's main objective of the operation was to eliminate a large part or entire population of the Serbian people from the Krajina region, to inflict as much emotional and physical damage to the ethnic group and to bring in fear to the ethnic group of Serbs in Krajina.
So if the term genocide is wrong in which i described then please correct me on the issue.
For what ever the reasons maybe, neither the EU or the US care for neither Serbs or Albanians, there main reason for Kosovo is because of it's geopolitical location and because Kosovo has vest amount of natural resources reserves estimated at over 500 billion USD.
No, on a number of ocassions, Kosovo has always and historically always been part of Kosovo and it is only in the earlie 1900's that Albanians started comming in large sum of numbers, and comming in, in much larger numbers after 1945, emmigrating from Albania into Yugoslavia in FYROM and in Southern Serbia, also the Serbs were present in the Balkans and in Kosovo long before the Albanians ever came to the Balkans.
On the RS issue, if the people of RS, BIH wants to seperate from BIH then it they should be given that right. I already explained this to Drena in the post above this one, so if you want to address it by quoting, i am more then happy for you to do that.
That would be a legitimate statement but the only problem is the Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians dont seem to think so when it comes to Serbia or RS.
Yes that is true but neither the Croatian or the Bosnian Muslim side, the organisations, the political parties and political officials involved from their side and from their behalf are also not completely weeded out, illegal and also Haris Silajdjic who was a war time foreign minister is now the current Prime Minister of BIH.
Look at SDA which is still in power, yet that party was established by the war time president Alija Izetbegovic, it is still a major party, look at HDZ, the same is with the HDZ which is still a major political party in Croatia and it still has many political influences and control of the government in Croatia.
As i told you before, you cannot have both, it is either one way or the other. The same must apply to all parties involved.
This is something we can agree on but too bad Cikola or majority of the Albanians here dont think the same of this.
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Post by jonleka on Aug 24, 2010 1:10:52 GMT -5
Well 89 rings a bell stank you porbably werent even born, so its hard for you to grasp those events and you are filled with popaganda.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 24, 2010 1:20:23 GMT -5
Well 89 rings a bell stank you porbably werent even born, so its hard for you to grasp those events and you are filled with popaganda. I was born in 89. The real masters and elite of propagandas are Albanians.
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Post by andromeda on Aug 24, 2010 13:24:35 GMT -5
Sorry , this doesn't make much sense. It appears that your usage of the term is reactionary to and the same as theirs except that your are swapping ethnic labels. It seems that if action 'A' is done to non-Serbs by Serbs then it is not considered wrong or unjust but if the same action 'A' is done to Serbs by non-Serbs then action 'A' is considered wrong or unjust, therefore , actually avoiding the meaning of action 'A' ( in this case genocide) all together. This is what I'm gathering from your argument. Of course other 'Balkanoids' use this same line of reasoning when 'defending' their favored ethnic group. You are not unique in this respect but surely your higher reasoning can see the fallacy.
That would be more along the lines of ethnic cleansing. Technically genocide is eliminating , often by any means necessary, any life form with a particular genetic marker , hence the word , genocide. 'Ethnocide' would be closer to the mark as regards Operation Storm as well although I do not believe that term is very applicable either. It is debatable if the intention of the Croatian state was to actually uproot the Serbian population in the form of mass exodus. What is clear is that the main goal or one of them was to dismantle the Serb mini-state's government as Zagreb saw it as a rival for its own stability and control. Nevertheless the result was a mass exodus decreasing the Serb population by 2/3 and a tragedy whether or not it was deliberately planned by the Croatian government or the Serbians figured it was better to leave than live under a Croatian state. My honest opinion is that it was probably a combination of both. Some agreement(s) between the Croatian government and the various Serb governments in Bosnia, Croatia , and Serbia in which politicians got what they wanted but not the people they are supposed to represent.
I am uncertain if the primary interest would be natural resources. It seems more like a ideal area to set up a military hub against perceived enemies of the U.S. and its allies. The Albanian government in Kosovo seems like more of a natural ally to the U.S. than the Serbian government as they claim no loyalties to any apparent rivals to U.S. power and the Albanian government would open to the prospect of increase U.S. military presence.
I find this argument rather ridiculous and it smoldering with the stench of "Balkan logic" which is to say , fail logic. First of all , history is open to subjective interpretation, second of all, it shouldn't be the primary consideration of dealing in the present day.
One merely needs to extend your line of reasoning to its natural conclusion. Which group of people inhabited/ruled Kosovo before the Serbs? If I am not mistaking it was local groups, who have probably been the for thousands of years, and politically it was administered by the Byzantine Empire and Medieval Bulgaria ( please correct my history?) Yes , amazing isn't it. There were actually people living in 'Kosovo' before any mention of Serbs or Albanians and its likely that they are the ancestors of*good deal of Kosovars today , be they Serb or Albanian. Distributing land based on history , especially ancient history, seems rather barbaric especially if the inhabitants of the land in question do not desire that transition. Whats even more appalling is using that 'historical justification' for violently removing said population. Should we return to 'Greece' all the land ever ruled by the Byzantine Empire? How about to Rome and the Papacy all the land ever ruled by the HRE? To England , Australia and the United States? I think you get the picture.
It seems like you are alright with a double standard as long as it favors your particular ethnic group but are outraged when it does not work in favor of your group. However , do not think this is a criticism of you personally, it isn't. I'm sure the very person you are arguing with believes the exact same thing you do only difference being is he favors his particular ethnic group. I just can't see how anyone can justify to me any ethnic group having 'god given' special privileges ( or not having them) based on what identity their parents/family claim.
I mean who are you to tell some Albanian ( or whatever) farmer in Kosovo what he can and can't do with his land? I take it you are not from Kosovo and that your only connection to Kosovo is your Serb idenity. Explain to me , Mr. Stanko, why you should have more say in the future of Kosovo than some Albanian , Serb , or other non-Serb farmer/worker that has toiled the land , paid the taxes , build his house , raised his children , etc , all in Kosovo? Surely you wouldn't say that merely your Serb identity (thanks to your parents and chance birth , no work of your own) gives you 'special rights' over Kosovo. LoL
You're Serbian , I'm Croatian , some others are Albanian or whatever. So the f**k what? It's not like we earned these things. It was an accident and chance that you happened to be born in a particular family that claims particular identity. All the arguments , all the vitriol , they are byproduct of indoctrination. This fact is clear as day if we really stop and bother to think about it.
I mean i just stated my main point and don't see a need to continue. You seem like an smart guy , Mr. Stanko, but that is somewhat masked by your obvious bias and indoctrinated beliefs. You are not a lone and I am not singling you out by any means. I notice the same symptoms with others you talk to such as this Cikola and Drena.
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Post by jonleka on Aug 24, 2010 18:48:16 GMT -5
Andromeda i do agree with most of your post, but you cant reason with Serbs that way.
Stanko your problem is that you only read Serbian history books, you say that Albanians came in kosova in 1900's I say prove it. Did you know that Albanians lived all the way to Nis until 1870's but got butchered and cleansed form the Serbian army.
Sure kosova was under Dushan's rule he even build some churches but that doesn't change the fact that 90% of the land now is owned by Albanians.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 24, 2010 23:30:58 GMT -5
I am sure that the Serbs feel the same about Albanians. The feeling is mutual. So would you prefer me reading Albanian history books instead? No because there hasn't been any presence of any Albanians in Nis in that period of time, infact there hasn't even been any presence of Albanians at all in those regions. During that period of time, the Turks were decreasing in numbers and the Turkish influence was detoriating as Serbia was going more towards independence from the Ottoman Empire, not to metion the uprising against the Turks. So unless Albanians are technically Turkish or a sub type group or a Turkish tribe than yes maybe they were present in Nis and if the Army butchered the Turks, they very well deserved it after the Serbs under the Ottoman Empire were butchered for 500 years straight. So in 1870 the Turks got what they deserved. Kosovo was never part of Albania to begin with, Albanians are 500-600 years present in the Balkans as oppose to the Serbs and Croats being present since 400-600 AC. Albanians were brought into the Balkans by the Turks as slaves and barbarics to fight of the Serbs and other christian groups in return of hoping to give some land to the Albanians in the Balkans. Too Andromeda, i will get back to you in an hour time because i am headed to the shops but i just want to say that i enjoy debating with you and it really doesn't bother me if you want to single me out, if you do then thats fine because i really enjoy having a debate. PS you also missed on a few paragraphs which you forgot or didn't address it.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 25, 2010 2:47:06 GMT -5
So your saying that the Yugoslav Army and the Serbian Police committed genocide in the Serbian province of Kosovo? From everysingle discussions and debates i had with Cikola and with the Albanians on this forum, according to them they are saints and they never even fired a shot at a single civilian but they seem to have this crazy fantasy that the Serbs committed genocide and killed millions of Albanians, Croats and Muslims and that genocide was committed in Kosovo in 98-99 by the Yugoslav Army and the Serbian Police and the KLA was the protectors even protecting Serbian civilians. Also here is a definition of genocide, Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.. Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.And this clearly describes a similiar situation of Kosovo, not only talking about the 98-99 on the crimes committed against Serbs and non Albanians in the Serb province of Kosovo but through out the 20th centuary. Operation Oluja because of it's objectives, the operation and the outcome, it is clearly descried as genocide according to the Genocide Convention and it's outcomes are very similiar to what the genocide description is. Killing is only a part, but causing physical and mental harm to an entire race group or part in the region, including imposing on them to leave or be forced to leave, due to attacks, threats and causing fear to a whole or to a part of the group. Ethnic cleansing is only a part and a variant of genocide, but the term better matches ethnic cleansing by kicking them or forcing them to move from one area to another, for example from a town to another town but the Operation Storm clearly forced out more then 300,000 Serbs to leave the country and artilleries, troops and tanks fired in the civilian areas injuring those and killing those that stayed or were trying to leave Croatia. There were other ways to dismantle the state and it doesnt require 200,000 armed troops to dismantle a mini state, there were more civilian casualties than military casualties during the operation storm. Even today Serbs cannot return back to Croatia and back to their homes. I am not saying that the Serbian side was a saint and that it never committed any crimes because even the Serbian side did alot of bad things also, all three sides committed crimes, some to a lesser extent, some to a more extent is irrelevant, all three sides, Serbs, Croats and Albanians committed war crimes. If i can admit that, why cant the other side admit to the wrong doings also?. That is only a part reason and yes one of their reason and their interest is to establish a US base, because of it's geopolitical and geographical location, to establish a US base is very strategical because Serbia is between the East and the West and it is a great strategic point. Try telling that to the Shiptars. . The Serbs were around even from the beginning of the Byzantine Empire and through out it's period. There hasn't been no traces of any Albanian present from a thousand years from the creation of the Byzantine Empire. The Bulgarians were also migrating to the Balkans in the same or similiar periods as the Serbs and Croats. Those that were present in Kosovo before the arrival of the Slavs, they intermixed and assimiliated themselves with the migrating tribes and groups and formed a state. The migrating tribes intermixed with the natives and the natives assimilated with the larger group and formed a state. There hasn't been no present of any Albanians since the formation of the Albanians were nowhere near the Balkans during the Byzantine Empire and even in the fall of the Byzantine Empire, there were no traces of Albanians in the Balkans. I do get the picture but you fail to understand one simple logic, so because there is a majority group living in one area, they have the rights to declare it a independent country?? If so, today we would have over a million countries and even a house full of family would form a nation and declare it independent today. Albanians have been in the Serbian Province of Kosovo through out the 20th centuary in large numbers and after WW2 they continued to migrate into Yugoslavia, Kosovo and FYROM after 1945 and have been doing till the 70ths and now they are claiming Kosovo to be Albanian because they make up a majority in that piece of territory, not taking into account that they are living in a foreign country. Through out the centuaries, Serbs have been cleansed out of Kosovo and the number of Serbs and other Non Albanians continue to decrease and detoriate in Kosovo because the Kosovo government aswell as the Albanians are making it very impossible for the Serbs to live there, especially that Serbs have no freedom of movement that if they step out on the streets, they risk getting bashed, killed, raped or even kidnapped. As i said before, if one standard has to apply to one group, than it should apply to all sides. It's as simple as that. I do not have double standards and i stated it in all of my previous posts in discussion with you. If you were from the Balkans than you would understand and take History into strong consideration. You cannot go into someone elses house and claim that house to be yours, and basically your saying that an Albanian is allowed to goto my house and claim it that it is his and it makes it ok but if i was to do that aswell, it would be wrong and it would be a crime. LOL, so it's ok to force Serbian farmers to leave his or hers land and for Albanians to steal that farm and that large piece of land and now it is considered as Albanian?? If you legally own a large piece of land, and most of the land is used for farming, it doesn't give you the rights to say hey this is an independent state and i am going to make my own country and declare it independent so i don't have to pay for the land, pay tax or anything to the government and the state. It really doesn't work like that. If your logic were to be accepted for the world, we would today have billions of new countries today and millions declaring independent every year. This is what you are saying. Also many lands and houses which today Albanians are living in and possess are illegally possessed by the Albanians, many of these lands that were owned by the Serbs post 98-99 are now owned by the Albanians because Serbs were kicked out and when some Serbs try to return to Kosovo, the Albanian is living in his home and a Serb cannot evict him or her because there is no governing body to enforce such a thing like that in Kosovo. What nationality have you accidently been born to? So your saying that Drena and Cikola are not biase at all I couldn't care if you did single me out or not but the points that i made, you failed to address all of them after i addressed all of your main points and debated it, stated my argument.
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